Daishi

I decided to create a working thread on my new project. The project at hand is creating a center consol for my car out of fiberglass and some misc wooden pieces for support.

Keep in mind I've never used fiberglass before, and I'll be posting my success... And failures. So if you happen to notice I'm doing anything wrong as I'm going along, by all means chime in.

Phase #1 - Supplies I've gathered so far

3 pack of gloves - $3.97
5 of pack brushes - $9.99
3 pack of sanding blocks - $4.97
2 packs of heavy Alum foil - $6.38
5 sand paper squares - $5.45
Fiberglass kit (Mat 6 sq. ft. 32oz Resin, cloth tape, hardener, cups ) - $31.45
Xtra hardener - $2.49
Acetone cleaner - $6.59
Bondo - $9.99

Total spent - $81.28 + tax

Most of this stuff could be found cheaper I'm sure, but I went shopping on Easter Sunday and ended up buying a lot of it from local hardware stores which obviously charge more.

Heres what I've got.



What I still need to get -

Piece of styrofoam

I'm intending to create pretty much what I want the center consol to be out of foam, and then fiberglassing over top of it, then theres the consol

Any thoughts so far?

novatuc

The fiberglass resin will eat the foam won't it ?

Daishi

Sure will, which is why I got the two big things of tin foil. I'm putting the tin foil all over the foam first, then laying the mat on top of it.

So unless someone says otherwise, thats the plan... Heh

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Sounds good, I wanna see .

Daishi

I'll keep this thread updated 100%. I work mon-thur at 12 hour days. So if this thread drops off the face of the earth until the weekends don't worry! The weekends are the play days

spartyon

Personally, after using the Bondo Brand glass, return it if you haven't opened it yet. Then go to US Composites website and purchase the BB440? resin. That is, what I have found, to be the easiest to work with. Just remember to mix small to medium batches of resin, after 5-10 minutes it will turn to jelly and not brush on anymore. I also found it easier to cut strips of the glass in long thin rectangles. Try to use fleece for your first layer to help make your shapes.

Daishi

Fleece? Is that like a fiberglass name of something, or do you mean like goto a fabric store and buy sheets of fleece?

I've heard some people use fleece and then just glass right onto it.

So for my setup, would you reccommend...

1 - Shape foam
2 - Cover in tinfoil
3 - Put fleece on tinfoil
4 - Apply resin directly to fleece
5 - Put down some mat
6 - more resin

That sound about right?

You said to use small batches because it turns to jelly? Do you know how long I have to let it sit for before I can apply another layer?

LaxStreetRacer

I would recommend going with disposable gloves, you can probably get a 100ct pack of latex gloves for what you paid for those.

spartyon

I mean actually fleece. You start with that, staple/glue it to the desired shape that you want. SOAK it is resin and you will have a great foundation to start the layers of fiberglass. Personally I wouldn't go the foam route. I have never gotten foam to work the way I want it to. After laying down the resin I let it sit for 30min-1hr and then applied the next coat. I have also let it sit a day and applied more coats.

Daishi

So if I don't use the styrofoam to get the basic shape, how would you reccommend I shape the fleece? I'm making a center consol, I don't know how else I can make a basic shape.

I'm thinking about using the styrofoam and cutting it in the basic shape I want, then using the fleece and mat to get all my shapes as close as I can. And then using bondo to make the rest of the shapes. Not like big chunks of bondo, but just using it to make the little edges and such.

Regardless of the bondo though, I'm wondering if I only use fleece how do I get the shape. Fleece is just like a blanket right? Like regular fleece? So if I use that what do I drape it over and such to get my shape?

spartyon

You would take some wood for bracing. Cut the wood to form your sides. Plywood and 1x1s for additional bracing if needed. Do a quick search as there are many people who have done fiberglassing before. Especially in the car audio forum.

l_dis_travlr

If there is one thing I've learned over more years than
I want to admit, it's that plan on building two -- the first
one never turns out the way you expect, because some
assumption you made was incorrect. So my advice is to
perfect your process with some type of small throw-away
object. Determined what does & doesn't work. Then move
on to the final object you want.

As to materials, check out marine supplies. Boat builders set
the state of this art, at least for flow-down to us shade-tree'rs.
There's several weights of fiberglass cloth available, for
different applications.

I've got an 81 'maro that I've been considering for a similar project.
Good luck, & keep us posted.

PS. Consider paper-mache over screen to get the basic form what
you want. It might be messy, but forming styrofoam can be very
unforgiving.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

fleece is nice if the particular shape that you're after can be made by stretching fleece over a wooden frame. If you've got the patience to get the shape you want with foam, that'll work just as well. Care needs to be taken with foam because any time you free-hand something, it becomes difficult to retain symmetry and flat, straight lines. Getting the overall shape with a wooden frame with fleece stretched over it, then finishing the smaller areas with foam may be a good way to get the final result you're after.

Other things I noticed:

1. For sure, get disposable gloves. Once resin dries on your gloves, they're useless.

2. Double up those red plastic cups. Once the resin starts to harden, the heat will melt right through one cup and you'll have a mess on your hands.

3. Those brushes look expensive. You only get one use out of brushes once you get resin on them. Once that crap hardens, they're trash. I use the cheap foam ones. Eventually the foam will fall apart, but each foam brush will last long enough to do a full cup of resin.

4. Like already said, US Composites sells better resin, and when you buy it by the gallon, it's cheaper than the Wal Mart crap.

5. You need a charcoal respirator. That fiberglass resin will give you headaches and make you loopy without it unless you're outside, and even then, it's smarter to have the respirator.

6. Hand sanding isn't going to cut it unless you've got a ton of patience. Using an air or electric grinder will help you quickly shape the item, then with a combination of bondo and more sanding, then finally hand sanding, you'll get your final shape.

7. To get a finish that's flat enough to look good with paint, you'll be sanding forever. Expect your sanding to take 2-3x as long as the rest of the entire project. If you're covering with vinyl, it'll be a little bit easier. If you're covering in carpet, you'll never need to touch the sand paper... the grinder will get you close enough. No matter how good or bad you are with fiberglass, it's your sanding still that determines how good the finished product looks.

Daishi

Sounds good, thanks for the advice so far everyone.

I think I am going to try the styrofoam method first. There is a shop around here somewhere that sells foam. Maybe I'll see if something thats a little easier to work with is available. Anyways I took the day off work tomorrow so I should be able to get a start on it then.

I think my approach will be to pull the center consol outta the car, and lay it next to the foam, then I'm going to use a felt pen to draw out some of the basics, and I've already got an idea in my head of what I want it to look like. I am completely ready to have to make 2 or even 3 center consols before I like what I made. Since I've never used the stuff I'm expecting to mess it up. Luckily the supplies are cheap and I've got time to screw around, so I don't mind the extra cost.

As for the finished product I'm hoping to paint it, because in the end I would love to paint it black with some white highlights in certain areas. I'm hoping to build some built in cup holders too. In the end I'll at least see what works and what doesn't.

I've got a dremel, but if I find the work is damn hard that just gives me an excuse to go buy some more tools

Thanks so far everyone, pics and progress on the way soon!

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

US composites will charge you like crazy. Fedex, border fees etc. I bought cloth from them, $80 worth of stuff, $70 of border fees and shipping. Try to find a local supplier.
In calgary there's a paint/composite supplier that has a whole section dedicated to fiberglassing. It's great. (There aren't a lot of 'marine' stores in calgary )
Prices seem high, but it's the cheapest i've found in town. ($70/gallon is normal in Canada).

Agreed with Jim, latex/vinyl/rubber (disposable gloves). Get a 100 pack from Crappy tire, $6 or so. The cheap ones (latex, and nitrile) in the autoparts section will dissolve as you're using them, the vinyl ones in the 'housewife' section last longer. Don't ask me why, that's just what i've found.

An $80 respirator is the best idea, but a windy day works good too.

Angle grinder with a flap wheel for sanding, and cut off wheels for cutting is what you want. A jigsaw too. (Total of $60 for all that stuff).

The resin sticks to the tinfoil pretty well. Plan on having to tear the tinfoil off your mold, then grind the tinfoil off of your fiberglass part.

I understand a speaker box, but why a center console? What's wrong with the current one? I doubt you'll make one lighter than that ABS plastic, unless you're just going for a custom size/shape?

Wood screws for the panels. You can't drill and tap fiberglass easily (unless it's crazy thick, and even then...). Try to squeeze out all the resin and air bubbles so it's mostly cloth. That's where you get the strength, the matrix, not the binder (resin).

There's a website with some good how to stuff, a guy made a kick panel and it shows him standing on it... I remember the site because of that picture, and thinking "what's Shaggy doing making speaker boxes? Go find Scoobie-doo and grab the mystery wagon man"...

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

good advice all above. so on that note here...... This is a good sie to read up on before you get started doing stuff....

Also a good site to buy stuff..
http://www.fibreglast.com
message Board
http://www.fibreglast.com/VBulletin/

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Fleece is nice if you’re looking for curvy/stretchy shapes, but for most of the stuff that I’ve done I’ve had much better luck with cardboard and duct tape, cover the whole thing in duct tape when it’s done and wax it. I’ve managed to make some seriously elaborate shapes like that, sometimes I might use a little body filler or something to add some more shape to things before covering them in duct tape.

The other thing with fleece is that it + the MDF or other wood forms you’re stretching it over get pretty heavy. Cardboard gets ripped out of the inside and the final piece weighs a fraction of what the fleece part would.

No matter what you use for a form, wax the final deal (like the aluminum foil that you have there), otherwise you’ll be doing a lot more breaking and grinding then pulling it off the form.

I guess I’m not as picky as the rest on the resin, I’ve used the bondo stuff, I’ve used assorted stuff that I’ve gotten at the boat store… they all basically work the same as long as you understand the types and their advantages and disadvantages. You’ll probably want plain old waxed polyester resin for most of this (without the wax the surface will remain gummy, the other common stuff would be one of the epoxy resins which will do more stuff, but cost much more and be unnecessary for this thing).

baktrak09

I always use spandex material for fiberlassing. It is just easier to stretch and get tight than fleece. I actually think an old t shirt works better than fleece. Spandex material is also stronger and lighter once the resin dries. just my $.02 tho.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

I'm really liking this thread, as I've been thinking about doing this for a while (bought a book on it, but haven't yet bought any supplies), & it's great to be able to learn from others' experience. I hope to see pics of the "in progress" & completed projects before too long!

spartyon

*DP

spartyon

This was the first time I attempted to use fiberglass. I made a custom box for 3 10" subs for my Taurus. Here is my frame along with fleece and HEAVY coat of resin. This setup the ultimate shape of the box, gave the fiberglass a layer to form/stick to, and allowed for trimming and and little massaging before getting in too deep.





This is after 1 layer of fleece and 3 4oz. layers of fiberglass. I had a total of 4 layers and it was strong enough for my 230 lb butt. Granted my box was well braced.



And the finished product.



Procedure that I took:

1. Designed my idea on paper and took all necessary measurements.
2. Used cardboard to get a rough template and my box wasn't square.
3. Cut MDF to make frame and bracing of box.
4. Siliconed the inside of the the frame and bracing before fiberglassing.
5. Stretched and stapled fleece to desired shaped.
6. Trimmed edges of the fleece so that they were flush with the MDF.
7. Mixed a double batch of resin based on manufacturers suggestions. This ended up being too much resin and turned to jelly before I could use it all. From here on I mixed 1 batch at a time. It is easier to make small batches then waste resin.
8. After the fleece/resin was dry I laid down a small area of resin and placed strips of fiberglass on top. Continued this step until box was covered.
9. Then added more resin on top of existing layer.
10. Added more resin after 15-30 min. of dry time along with more fiberglass.
11.-14. Repeat steps 8 and 9.
15. Added body filler to smooth out box.
16. Sanded and trimmed excess resin and then covered the box.

Materials:

US Composites http://www.uscomposites.com/
B-440 Premium Polyester Layup Resin 1 gallon (Perfect amount for this box) $28.00
4oz. E Glass 10 yards (More then enough with leftovers from box) $3.20/yrd
1-1/2" Brushes QTY 10 $0.70/ea
3" Fiberglass Roller $6.70
Disposable Latex Gloves box of 50 $10.00
Mixing Containers 1 quart QTY 5 $0.55/ea

Other Store Supplies
Cheap Cotton Gauze Mask (I worked on this project outside on a breezy day) pack of 3 ~$10.00
Staples
Wood
Caulk
Screws
Sandpaper
Body Filler (Bondo Brand was fine for this)


Extra Precautions
Cover your workspace because any fallen resin will not come off. I couldn't take it off my driveway with a power washer. Wear long sleeves when working with the glass. This stuff itches, especially when sanding. Use a nice pair of scissors to cut the mat/cloth. Regular art scissors won't cut it very well.

Daishi

That is a great idea about the cardboard, I'm definitly going to go that route. Thanks for the info.

New pics hopefully tomorrow!

Daishi

The story so far...

So I popped out to the car about noon or so and pulled the center consol out, took maybe 15 minutes. I'm sure everyone knows how to take her outta there so I didn't bother takin pics.

Moving along, I spent probably about an hour cutting up cardboard and trying to get some shapes going. Pretty much I just tried to copy the current design. But it definitly fell through, not that the cardboard wasn't working... But I just took the wrong route with it.

I got duct tape and a bunch of boxes from a local hardware store and starting hacking away at it. It didn't take me long to realise that I'm not even going to bother trying to copy the center consol itself, instead I'm going to be going inside the car and getting some basic designs made. The few spots that I need to keep the same will be the temp control, shifter, and Ebrake. The rest is in the air.

I'm thinking about almost making sort of a box shape around the important areas I need to keep the same. Then using those I'll put a simple frame around the outside just to get a stable and workable shape. Then moving from there I'll start to cut away at it and pull some better shapes.

I would post pics, but it just ended up looking like a pile of cut up cardboard, an annoyed wife, and a bunch of ***** of tape.

lol, I'm done screwing around with it today. The fun starts again tomorrow.




EDIT:

I have a personal problem of rushing into things without thinking them through. So I'm going to be taking spartyon's advice to heart and get maybe 5 designs drawn out and see how they suite the car. I'm going to be moving the cd player. I'm thinking about making a little pod for the temp control unit and leaving it basicly where it is, then taking the consol and starting it about where the shifter is.

Daishi

Alright then, so I went at it again today and had some great results.

Instead of just cutting out a bunch of huge templates and trying to get it made in as little as pieces as possible... Well that just didn't work. Instead I started with making just one piece, and slowly piece by piece I added more. So far I've gotten the shifter plate, the Ebrake, and the beginning of the back half of the consol made. It's sturdy, it looks about what I was thinking in my head.

I'm definitly leaving some of the more rounded shapes and more of the edges to when I use the fiberglass and the bondo. The cardboard is a great thing to work with, and when I cut something wrong... Who cares a minute later I just cut a new one.

Lots of measuring, lots of duct tape.

But I'm in good spirits, I tackled the harder areas today leaving just the basics to cut out in the next while. At this rate I should be applying the first layer of glass within maybe the next two weeks.

I'll get a pic of what I've made so far, so you can have a look.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I’m glad you found some of my advice useful… fwiw, make sure that when you’re ready to start with the fiberglass the cardboard buck is fairly stiff and that anything that is going to be exposed to ‘glass resin is covered with something non absorbent (duct tape…) and well waxed. Once I’m happy with what I have as a shape I usually wrap a piece of plywood in plastic and then staple the form/buck to it (cover the staples in more tape/wax) to give me a stable surface/shape to work with that the part won’t stick to

Daishi

Ok, so a quick reply as to the updates. I ended up deciding to buy a home over the last few days. So obviously I've been running around like MAD trying to get that out of the way. The good news is that I told the wife if we buy a house I get a double garage... And guess what... Looking at two places this week with a nice big garage

I got some of the cardboard designed. I have realised that even getting past the design stage is a lot harder... And i havn't even touched the fiberglass yet.

Moving along, I'm still going to be learning fiberglass. Just gotta buy that house first... And maybe take out a little xtra on the mortgage for the car... Sure that extra money is for renos but... *smirks*