customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

found my old demensions of stock LCA's and panhard rod!
i took off the old stuff and then made the demensions and then made my own stuff
here they are incase u wanted it

panhard rod:

1 3/8" ends for poly bushings
length: 43" on center from center of each end bushing
41.5" center tubing cut to be notched for 1 3/8" end tubing for bushing... below
41" from end to end of notched pipe, so thats 1/4" of notching on each side.
weld straight and walla! aftermarket tubular panhard rod (non adjustable)


LCA's

using 1 5/8" thick wall mild steel tubing
length: 19 5/16" on center of each bushing end length
i believe its 17 7/16" inner tube length then knotched for outer poly bushing demensions. they are easy to make all u really need are the bushings in hand and the overall ON center demensions.

hope this helps anyone else. ive had these on for over a yr and have had no problems and it really improved my launching/wheel hop/ cornering.

naterman35

By any chance do you have finish product pictures?. As well as some mid way pics?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I made LCA's using parts from lefthanderchassis.com. I used the AL hex bar, that has threaded ends, then rod ends for one side, and a rubber bushing with a stud welded on it for the other. Voila-adjustable poly/rod end LCA's
And yes, I remember it being 19.3x" long from c-c on the LCA's.
My way is good if you don't want to weld. The AL tubing was about $15 per side, which, with the price of steel pipe is actually pretty good.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yea i got pics, i'll find them and post them. the LCA's are super strong, i used really really thick mild steel tubing and built the welds up to increased strength, im sure there is no aftermarket as strong. i worked for a fencing company at the time, so it only cost me the price of the poly bushings for both

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

here are the old pics i found, just several coats of silver paint and they still look the same

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

whats the thickness on the walls on those pipes? those are pretty good looking! good job

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks it only took 40 min to make them
i think the panhard rod was 1/8" thick, the LCAs are really thick, id say 3/16-1/4" thick wall tubing. still they are lighter than stock. i used to work at a fencing company so the piping i used was mild steel but thick/strong stuff, u can pick this pipe up for like 3$ a foot or less.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

nice. sounds like it would be strong enough!

i_love_thirdgen

iTrader: (3)

subscribe

emory 4-4-2

oh yeah, i like this idea. definitely have to try this one.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Also Subscribed!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

post sum picks when u get em done.
subscribed?

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

That's pretty cool, but what I really need are all of the dimensions for LCA relocation brackets! I've got a buddy who can bend 3/8" steel, so once I can tell him where to cut/bend, it won't be necessary for me to spend the better part of $100 for two C-shaped pieces of metal...

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Spohns are only $67 I think, and they'd be guaranteed to be the right size. You make your own and if you screw up once you're out that much due to wasted material.
Mine are 1/4" thick, which is super overkill, since you're welding them to 1/8" or 3/16" existing brackets.
I think mine are basically 3 plates welded together, rather than being bent. It's tricky to force them on if they were bent.

Best bet is to make them to suit. Get a few pieces of 3/16" steel and cut them into the basic shape. Lay them on top each other and drill the holes. Then lay them on the existing brackets (on the axle), use the existing LCA hole to align them, and weld them to the brackets. All you're trying to do is lower your mounting point 1-2" or so, how it looks is not too important.

jimmy92rs

iTrader: (3)

nice job customblackbird! u did a great job on thoughs.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks jimmy92rs.... u could do the same

as far as the LCA relocation brackets it would be worth the 60$ from UMI to get them bc they are a nice tight fit and come powdercoated so its not that bad, i mean the time u spend making them and the materials u use, metal etc it wouldnt cost all that much to just buy them. my UMI's are a great fit. if u wanted to tho, have some one who has just bought them trace it and send u the demensions or file.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

People dont realize that it isnt necessary to post in a thread to subscribe (get updates in their email), at the top of the page there are thread tools......

AlkyIROC

Easiest way to make a custom replacement part is to make a jig to hold the old component. You then remove it from the jig and use the jig to make a custom piece to fit in it's place. No guesswork on dimensions then. Of course the old component can be damaged in any way before making a jig for it. Sometimes that means buying a new factory replacement part first.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thats basically what i did, thats why i gave then the ON center demensions. when i worked for a fencing company i used to just throw together a jig to hold the pipe and i would bang out fences in no time. just makes it a whole lot easier.... u could also get into a business and sell these to 3rd geners everywhere cheaper than the companies do prob

stroker_SS

Would the equivalent wall thickness square tubing be stronger?

Which is pricier square or round?

What about the ends, what material would i construct those from.

Off topic, but since i would be in that area, how dramatically different of a ride if i were to cut the rear coils enough to lower it 1-1.5 inches?

How much of a coil would i need to cut to achieve this amount of lowering?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

depends, square and round tubing have different torsen qualities. i would stick to round tubing bc its easier to work wit and is strong all the way around. the square tubing is bettter for laterial forces.

the rod ends you would have to purchase. many companies sell them but i wouldnt use them on both sides of the LCA or panhard rod. the ride will be reallly really rough, best to just use one side rod end(side that attaches to rear end) the other side poly or rubber.

cutting stock rear coils will give u lower stance... if your stockers arent sagging low already, but the coil strength isnt enough, the ride will probably suck and get worse. ever see a honda with cut stock springs? look horrible and handle even worse, they just bounce around lol

if your gona cut coils, start cutting small, 1/2 a coil at a time or so. and use a cutting wheel or sawzaw. dont use a torch bc u dont want to create alot of heat... it will weaken the spring and affect the molecules/strength of the spring material

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Round/box doesn’t matter, anything in a decent looking size that isn’t going to be a PITA to work with will be strong enough, use whatever you can get cheapest. I used some roll cage tubing the last time I did it because I had a stack of it from when someone cut out a roll cage out of a car, the 2x before that I just boxed the stockers (once with 1-1/4x1/8 strapping and once with pieces cut out of some 16ga sheet metal) because that’s what I had around. All worked equally well.

WRT to cutting coils… the problem is that the spring rate goes up faster with cutting the rear springs then the front so you end up with too stiff a rear suspension and oversteer. With cut front springs or even eibach front springs what I’ve found works best is to pull the insulators out from the top of the rear springs and replacing them with some heater hose, that will lower the back of the car close to an 1”. If you need more cut up to half a coil off the top of the spring. Past that they’ll get too stiff unless you have _really_ stiff front springs, like >1000lb/in, and when you get that stiff you probably won’t want to run the WS6 sway bars, the whole combination is just too much for most people. (this is all assuming that you’re starting with a set of springs that were out of one of the performance models with a v8. Base model ‘bird/rs V8 or any of the v6 springs are a totally different deal).

As far as cutting with a torch… it’s fine if you know what you’re doing, just don’t heat the coils where you’re not cutting. For that matter even if you manage to overheat the next half a coil enough to anneal it (if you’re that bad with a torch you shouldn’t be using it anyway), that’s fine because you’ll find that the first ½-3/4 of a spring coil gets bottomed out in the pocket and doesn’t do anything anyway.

Jer82Z28

where do u guys find the poly bushings to go with your components? I made myself some LCAs and adjustable torque arm a few years ago but just have cheap rubber bushings in them atm as i couldnt find just the bare poly bushings anywhere.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

energy suspension, prothane... you can buy them through summit or jegs, or go to a good local speed shop and the can usually look them up even by dimentions...

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

What are the benefits of relocating the LCAs?

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Very nice! i plan on doing the same only with one side with a rod end on each lca and maybe a entire rod end adjustable panhard bar

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

If you want rod ends, check out the following links. They make it real simple.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gro...GroupID=RODEND

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gro...oupID=TUBEENDS

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Thanks race geek, i was wounding about the tube ends that fit in the rods! what a save

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

For poly bushings I just made them out of a boat trailer roller. It was a transparent, yellow piece, that was enough for the LCA bushings and panhard bar bushings. Cheap and easy...

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i wonder wat the best size would be for those rod ends. the weldable tube ends that i see come as the largest is 5/8" that means it has to fit into a tube with a 5/8" inner DIA tube correct? and then just get a rod end that has the same thread size?

lilnebel

I actually started this project two days ago and its going good so far i don't have any pictures of the progress but i have the solidworks rendering. As for the rod end sizes i went with the 3/4 just because that is what you find on one you would buy. For the tube ends i am making my own its time consuming but im at school so i have alot of free time and with a whole machine shop why not. BTW i go to UW-Stout

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

been looking at something like this

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

but i think im just going to weld a tube to run a bushing on one side then a threaded end on the other to run a rod end

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

so basically i want to make a set like these:

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

^ Thats what I have on my car (but black)... I got lazy and money was easier to come by at the time then the time needed to make them was.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

spherical ends on both sides is an all around good performer bc theres not deflection under turning as well as no binding. but they can be harsh for a street car. increased vibration and feeling every bump in the car. poly on each end is bad for the street but great for drag racing. best would be poly end and spherical rod end. less binding and less vibration. just make sure the poly end is the end that attaches to the body not the rear.

where do u get your 3/4" tube ends and spherical ends? id want mine adjustable since im planning on going with a ford 8.8 rear.

lilnebel

since im making my own tube ends i decided it would be better design to include a hex surface to help tighten the jam nut. Good Idea or Bad idea?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

smart idea. but are u really gona need it when its installed on the car? i didnt need one on my UMI PHB. the attached end (poly end) will keep the LCA from rotating. so really theres no need. but u could do it anyway if u wanted to. not sure why all the aftermarkets have that cone shaped end. theres gotta be a reason for it.

lilnebel

the reason i want to make them like that is because both ends are going to be heim joints and for adjusting because one side is left hand thread and the other is right hand thread so i can adjust it on the car. finaly it will be easier to make im using a cnc lathe and 4 axis cnc mill.

The reason there is a taper on the tube end is so when you put a wrench on your jam nut you can stradal the whole nut and not have the mating surface interfear with the wrench.

here is a link to the drawing for the tube end if anyone wants to make their own http://www.mediafire.com/?nn2w3jmomzz

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

cant download it but. if u wanted to u could machine the middle of the arm to a hex for a clean look instead of it being on both sides. ive seen this done on someones. or just use HEX tubing.

also where did u get your 3/4 from? and if u look at that UMI pic u see those billet spacer tubes on the ends of the spherical ends.... where do i get those from? i have them on my UMI PHB too.

lilnebel

For the aluminum spacers i plan on making them my self all they are are two halves that sandwich the heim joint and step the hole down to i think 1/2 inch to accept a 1/2 inch bolt or 5/8 im not sure? im just go turn some out and then cut them to length.

Its so hard trying to make this stuff at school when my car is 300 miles south.

i attached the tube end drawing

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

u use CAD for that?

and ur using .120 tubing? still wish they sold the rod ends to make your own spherical end joints lol. its gona be a pain to find spacers like that for me.

lilnebel

I used solidworks and yes i am using .120 wall tubing and as far as getting some spacers made you should try to find a local college that has an engineering program and ask them if they could help you out or maybe a tech school might also.

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Where do you get or make the tapered ends where the rods screw into?

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I posted some links a few posts up.

lilnebel

Chassis shop http://secure.chassisshop.com/partrelate/C73-947-H-2/

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

lilnebel thats where i got my 1.5"x.095" tubing from for my STB. they are alil on the pricey side. they say they are for 1 1/4"x .120 tubing. does that mean the end that fits into the tubing will fit a 1 1/4"x.120" tubing? or that the part of that tube end that slides into the tubing is 1 1/4"x.120"??? they arent clear on that.

when i ordered from them i didnt get an order conformation and i didnt know shipping costs. i got an email saying they recieved the order and would inform me of shipping costs and the order total etc. i went away for 3 days, i checked my email and never heard from them. when i got back it was sitting in my house. 19$ worth of tubing and 19$ for shipping. never got shipping quote or order confirmation lol. not mad tho.

lilnebel

when you buy tube adpaters the size they give is going to be the size of tube you have. so i am using 1.25" .120" wall tube and the adapter i would get would be 1.25" .120 wall just match the numbers. you dont have to use that size either im using electric weld tube but if you used DOM (drawn over mandrel) you could use a .095 wall chromolly, its more expensive but you save weight.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

i looked around alil and i couldnt see the tube adapters for the 1 1/4" x .120? the site he posted is something like 1"x .065" and thats just too thin i believe for a LCA on our cars. i would rather be around the .120" thickness. im also having some trouble finding the 1 1/4"x .120" tubing.

and when u make the LCA does it matter whether its a left or right hand thread? im planning on making adjustable ones for my ford 8.8 swap so if i were to keep a poly bushing on the body mount side and just use a rod end for the rear end side mount wat would i need? left or right hand thread? and could someone post links for a site that sells the rodends/tube adapters and tube?

also idunno if u noticed my chassis shop only sells chrome moly tube adapters and i dont want to weld chrome moly since its a pain in the @ss supposidly. id rather stick to mild steel and just tig it nicely. no headaches

lilnebel

Im not really sure where you can find the tube adapters i made mine but the tubing you should be able to pick it up at a local steel supplier. Its a real common size. call around and ask for 1.25" by .120" wall, electric weld tubing or if you need to order off the inter net try http://www.discountsteel.com/

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

thanks thats the cheapest site ive found so far. yea i wouldnt use DOM... no point really. electric weld would be fine.

what about using right or left handed thread for the sperical ends on the rear axle side mount?