Iroczracer

No flammin this one please!! What is the advatage of having a torgue arm?? What would there be any advantage to a street style four link. Something on the lines of the older Nova's and Chevelle

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Whats your goal or idea on removing it. There are cars in the 7's with trq arms still. A good decoupled trq arm should be good enough.

If your going all out drag car, tubbed etc. I can see swapping to a 4link for simplicity of just buying a back half chassis kit but thats about it.

Iroczracer

May general thought was handling, maybe a little drag racing, or take it to Maxton NC to put her in the wind. Been thinking on this for a few weeks, and may have away to connect both sub frames and provide upper pivot points for the rear end. This would allow two upper and two lower control arms, springs and track bar would be the same. May goal I guess would be to handle at high speed...It's been cold here so I do not have any measurements. I'm thinking it would work with little modification. Then again could just replace the stock arm with a BMR unit, but why be like everyone else right...The economy taking a dump has slowed everything down, but work when I can..

AlkyIROC

The third gen's complete unibody design doesn't leave much for a better suspension. The floorpan is very low in relation to the axle position. It's not impossible but trying to redesign a different suspension system takes a lot of work.

It's hard to compare a third gen to an early Nova or Chevelle. The third gen wheelbase is short which limits how much room there is for a different suspension without putting it in the back seat. Chevelle was also a full frame car which added a lot more strength for the triangulated 4-link system it used. Early Nova used leaf springs which didn't need a lot of room under the floor but also had a higher floorpan in relation to the axle.

For road course type racing, the torque arm suspension is superior to any other design except the current NASCAR long trailing arm type suspension which was also used on early GM pickup trucks.

Iroczracer

I was thinking my must difficult part would be right in front of the rear housing, no clearence..Maybe room in there for a three link setup? I actually drove a 71 Elcamino to school, that was my original project car. But the body had so much rust it fell apart taking the frame off. Then sold all the parts went to my first Camaro which was an 82 Z. Like you I have allot of money in it now, just trying to add some wow factor.. Yes I even thought about truck arm type. Muscle Motor Sports sells second hand Winston cup type parts. Hot Rod From hell sells a kit to much money though..

P.S. Love tire smoke!! Looks like you have a pony or two.....

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Although there are numerous ways to improve the factory setup, you're not going to easily do better just by swapping it out.

The TA setup is one of the few suspension types that can do really well in a straight line and handling wise, and nothing that you've mentioned would result in any advantage with comparable quality parts. As a good example, mustangs that for years have used a 4 link setup have a number of companies that make torque arm conversions for for improved all around performance, especially handling. American iron road racing events which generally require a stock style suspension allow mustangs to convert to a torque arm setup to be competitive with f-bodies (not sure how allowing mustangs to go with basically a custom TA setup and now allowing F-bodies to do the same is fair, but that's another story)

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

There is a kit out there that does away with the torque arm all together. There's massive discussion on the pros/cons of this type of set up.



Some installed pics. Most guys upgrade to coil overs in the process. These are on a 4th gen, but the rear ends of these cars are the same with respect to the suspension.





Basically, you weld on mounts on top of the rear axle, and those short arms go from the control arm up to those mounts. You adjust the pinion angle via the shorter arms, and use your torque arm as a boat anchor. Jeeps use this exact design on "long arm" front suspension. Had it on my Cherokee for awhile and it worked fantastic on the street, and more than fantastic off the street. Totally different applications obviously.

J.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Why not just do a Corvette IRS swap then? Gives you the 4-link plus great handling.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Because there's no such thing as "just doing a corvette IRS swap". thats slightly more involved than most people are willing to try to tackle. Unless there is a kit available to simplify it that I dont know about.

The only way I see a true 4-link style set up working well, is if you basically back half the car and add strong frame rails in for the links to bolt to. Otherwise, you're looking at reinforcing the heck out of the unibody back there to prevent nasty things from happening under high loads.

Personally..I think the stock suspension set up works pretty well. Its a nice blend for all driving conditions. I really dislike the torque arm itself though. Its just sort of a pain in a couple of different ways. Ill be sticking with it though.

J.

myroc86

I forgot where I saw it, either on youngsfbody or hawks where they put a corvette rear suspension in a 3rd gen trans am. They didnt say too much about it so im asuming it was pretty involved and not something the average joe would want to take on, but it can be done.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

ghettocruiser... who sells that kit? ive never seen that before. and how much? im just wondering....

ive upgraded just about ever piece of the suspension but never the tq arm. car handled incredable. just stuck in a jegster tunnel mount shorty tq arm.... i expect even more improvement!... if thats possible. now all i need is an engine to test it :P

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

The company is G-Force Suspension. I cant link ya because they arent a sponser. The cost is somewhere around $450... Pretty pricey. I decided awhile back and I wanted a nice, adjustable, hard mounted torque arm instead of trying these. But I almost pulled the trigger on them.

The only thing I can say on the g-force bars is I believe some extra work should be done before installing them. There should be some sort of reinforcement to the control arm pocket. maybe as simple as plating the sides...or as complicated as fabbing a saddle to go around and support the entire pocket. Otherwise, the set up seems like it would work good, especially in a drag situation. Not sure how they work for road racing or in the twisties, and there werent enough reviews for me to want to try it.

J.

rippin ron

Its the third link in a three link suspension. You kind of need it.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

not to pricey when u look at the prices of tq arms nowadays. still interesting to see new things tho.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

You need it...unless you replace it with something that does the same job... (4-link, g-force ladder bars, etc)

You could probably turn the rear suspension into a traditional 3-link set up. Traditional in the sense that the third link is a hard attached arm. Which is what you are sort of doing when you go to a tunnel mounted torque arm.

Either way...I wouldnt own a thirdgen and leave it tranny mounted. Along with SFCs, it would probably be on of the first parts Ide upgrade.

JMO.

J.

1LOMARO

If you contact Zeus Performance in Charlotte NC, they have a gentleman named Jay Cutshaw.... he installed a Corvette IRS in his 4th gen Firebird. He has done the R&D to do this to F-body's. Spoke with him awhile back before I bought the 89! Sweet looking set-up. Was in An Issue of Hot Rod sometime last year. Small article though.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Looks rediculously simple, the only requirement being that those little adjsutable arms are dead parallel with the main arm, this means that the 2 mounting points would have to be equi-distant so the size of the bracket on the arm must match the bracket welded to the axle....hmmm.....

BTW, anyone know the OD of a 9 bolt axle?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

umm yea its like 1" lol. d@mn 9bolt.... i got mine sitting in the snow... i dont even want to look at it. thinking of goin ford 8.8 and saving sum coin.

honestly it looks like its about 2.5" tube on the 9bolt.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

that g-force setup doesn't do much besides turns the rear suspension into basically a ladder bar setup, there have been a number of different products that have done that over the years with 3rd and 4th gen rear suspensions, and I guess they're fine if you're building a straight line car, but he specifically said that he wanted something for handling.

Furthermore, no, the TA is not the 3rd link in a 3 link suspension. WRT to locating the axle fore and aft as well as up and down the 3 link has identical kinematics to a 4 link suspension or specifically in every plane as a 4 link with straight links and some sort of lateral locating device.