chevyracingrox

ok, so it's not quite time to fix my rusty camaro, but I want to get the thread up about my repairs so I can hear all the suggestions and get feedback before this is permanent. I don't have the budget to buy entire floorpans like the ones available from Hawk's thirdgen. I'm making my own floorboards, seeing as this is the fabrication board, that shouldn't be too odd. I was planning on buying sheetmetal, about 20 guage, grinding surface rust off and using a torch or plasma cutter to cut a square area to weld the sheet metal too. welding will be done with a MIG welder.

after that I will be sanding surface rust off the underside of the car and putting on POR-15. I also plan to build and install subframe connectors while the trailing arms are off pull and paint the rear axle black. not perfect, but better than rust color.

I think I have a small, slow, leak. its looks to be from the part the driveshaft bolts to on the rear axle. will probably fix that before painting it while the rear axle is out. anyone know what part I'm talking about? those trailing arm bolts are close to impossible to remove, any suggestions on that? I'll post pictures of the most effected rust areas soon.

chevyracingrox

^don't know what to really do about this one, the other side is about the same too.

a1990camarors

wow thats some of the worst case of rust ive ever seen you driving that?

I would check where your lca's connect to the body in the back and make sure there not rusted out looks like alot of work!

89_RS

Buying and forming sheet metal to fit may be almost as expensive as buying the floor pans, unless you already have all the tools. If I were you, I'd avoid the plasma cutter or torch and use an air cutoff wheel instead. Torches and plasma cutters really leave a lot to be desired in cleanliness of cut where as you just have to quickly grind an air cutoff tool cut with a dremel to clean it up IMO. MIG should do well for what you need.

That rust isn't as bad as the rust on my car. I have no rear wheel wells left on my car and my body panels are starting to go.

This is just for your info: if you really wanted to get all the rust and crap taken care of in one shot, you can strip the car down to the "frame" and send it to this place in Indy that will submerge the car in a chemical bath that strips off all the rust & crap and when it comes out of the bath it seals the metal like primer to prevent anymore rust. That way all you have to do is square up the holes, weld in the patches, and paint it up to get it going again.

chevyracingrox

no I'm not driving the car right now. I want to get this done before I start daily driving it. there's a place nearby to buy sheetmetal from so I'm going to need prices before investing. I forgot to point out I'm not replacing the floor under the driver's seat and a little area behind it. is 20 gauge what I need for sure? a bending brake would probably be the tool to use for forming. gotta see if my buddy has one of those, or if he has a better idea. what does everyone think of scraping off some of that rubber stuff and seam welding that area that was just pinch welded?

89_RS

You're actually going to want to fix all the holes in the floor, thats how our cars are held together. The front & rear subframes are connected by the floor and the floor is also what helps limit chassis flex. While you fixing the floor, it'd be a good idea to go ahead and put in SFC's to really stiffen up the car.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

god it makes me glad i get ALL my metal for free. that is some serious rust.. but ive seen MUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH worse. not on a camaro, but believe me there is def worse. luckily all those cars had full frames so they werent so weak like camaros.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Even an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel will work much better than a torch or plasma cutter. The sheet metal in the floors is fairly thin and I had no problems with using my angle grinder. Other than cleaning up the dust from the discs and keeping the sparks from igniting my interior(which I should have stripped out but didn't). Keep a fire extinguisher close by, there are a lot of flammable things around those areas, especially up under the dash(I still get some white stuff out of my vents occasionally and its been over a year now).

Also, with the way your front floor pan is on the driver's side, make sure you pull the kick panel and rocker panel off and check the side there real well. My floorpan was rotted out too, although not as bad as yours, but I had to replace the bottom half of the sheet metal behind the kick panel and part of the pinch weld that runs along the side of the car. There is also a seam that runs from the "frame rail" to the outer pinch weld on the front floor, about where you stopped pulling up the carpeting. Its basically just the sheet metal folded over several times. I used a piece of 1/8"x1" flat bar steel to replace it to maintain the strength of the floor. I bent the ends to butt up against the sides of the "frame" and pinch weld and welded it to the floor as well.

chevyracingrox

what I'm saying is I'm not replacing the part that doesn't have any holes. the passenger side is alright, the points where the aluminum heat sheilds bolt on are rusting through, so I'm going to patch that up too. like I said before, I'm putting homemade subframe connectors in. do you think I should put those in before fixing the floor? seems like it should go in first so I don't have to worry about the frame flexing while fixing the floor.
so for the cutoff wheel, I'll see if we have any laying around. we have a grinder to use for them. pulled the kick panel and rocker panel off, it looks good. would you like pictures of that? I now have my interior stripped exept my front seats and dash so its no problem. not sure what your talking about with that seam.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

If you have some, yeah. I should be able to show you the seam I'm talking about in the pics. If not, I'll have to dig up the pics I have of my floor pan before I fixed it, but the quality isnt great since it was taken with my cell.

chevyracingrox

both pictures are of that little corner by the kick panel and firewall.
I have some metal pop riveted in for a temporary fix, just if you're wondering.

ChevyRS-305

yea kinda sounds like my project. i bought a 92z and the first day i got it i completly gutted it and now its just a body shell. i almost wanted to cry when i seen how much rust repair that was going to be involved, but after seeing yours...days are good now lol. so far i have repaired my whole drivers side just need to grind down the welds and that took about a month just working on it after work till 11 at night....good luck. ill have some pics to show everyone of my progress

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

foor pans are one thing but how are the subframe and rockers?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...-up-start.html

chevyracingrox

feel free to post up some pictures in this thread. my car has been making a lot of people feel better about their rust. lol
there is one area of the subframe I'll need to cut and patch. its the small front part that extends out toward the rocker on the passenger side. Its not rusted through, just weak.I was poking around making sure it was ok and I poked through it. you used 16 gauge huh? do you reccomend that?

Project:91RS

89_RS, do you have a phone number for that place? Do you know how much it would cost?

89_RS

Not yet. Guy I worked with last summer knew the place. We live in the same neighborhood and are planning to get together sometime and talk cars. I'll definitely ask him about that place.

ChevyRS-305

here is some rust damage on my car

ChevyRS-305

here is some rust damage on my car
Attachment 178328
this is just after poking it with a screw driver on the passenger side
Attachment 178329
on the drivers wheel well
Attachment 178332
drivers floor board

ChevyRS-305

befor and after pictures

chevyracingrox

thanks for posting pics chevyrs-305. I've got the area sanded and primed to give everyone an idea of what I'm expecting to cut out and replace. I'll post that later. currently saving up for some sheetmetal.

chevyracingrox

just so you have an idea where i plan to cut

kevmann

I just found a shell that has perfect floorboards, trunk, and rear quarters. I am going to cut it up and weld it all into mine. How hard is it to cut out the whole floor(both sides) and weld in a new one? Or should I just cut out both sides? Passenger side is really not that bad on mine but the drivers side is bad. This shell is near perfect.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

How near perfect is it? It might be easier to just swap your stuff over. At the very least, if you can get all the floor pieces out whole, you might want to save them for future use, or put the up for sale so us poor rustbucket owners can get good patch panels at decent prices

It's not difficult to do as long as you take your measurements carefully. It gets kinda tight to work at the front of the driver's floorboards if you don't remove the dash, but I didn't really have any problems welding in my patches.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

That's true Chevy! I don't feel half as bad about my rust bucket reno! But I do feel your pain and can sympathize with what you're up against. I just want to get mine patched up and on the road for the summer then deal with the larger issues next year. Good luck, I'll be watching your progress.

Derth Deboblo

WHY are you even thinking about fixing this?!?!? Seriously?? The car is BEYOND saving, and not worth anything. Really, ditch this car.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Sometimes we have to go take the more difficult paths in life to realize what we're really capable of doing. I get more satisfaction from doing things with my own hands even though it's easier, cheaper, faster etc. than just going out and buying it new and shiny off the shelf, which I can do because I can afford it. I wanted a sporty car, I could have bought one for $20K, instead I bought a rust bucket for $1500, a MIG welder for $600, taught myself to weld and am working on the car. Would I be happier driving a $20K car? Yeah, of course. Am I happy fixing up my ole' rust bucket? You betcha! What makes me feel better? Definitely fixing up the ole' bucket and then getting to drive it knowing "I DID IT WITH MY OWN TWO HANDS"!

I have a friend. He went out and bought himself a flashy Bullet Mustang. The only thing he's ever done to it is put the car cover on and take the cover off. He goes to the car shows and wins a few trophies with it. That's nice. He's happy and I'm happy for him. Other than the cash he laid down to buy the car he's done nothing IMHO to earn the right to put that car in a show. I have another acquaintance who's done a complete frame off restoration of a '67 Mustang GT including a complete rebuild of the 427 SCJ that was in it. The car took almost 6 years and many many thousands of hours of work and many thousands of dollars to complete. He takes it to the car shows now and wins a lot of trophies. IMHO he's earned the right to own a car like that and show off his hard work. Who gets the most admiration from me? You guess!

Derth Deboblo

Yes, I understand where your coming from, and I can appreciate it. But a 3rd gen is not a '67 GT with a 427. Apples to oranges comparison really. Besides, he posted pictures and asked for opinions, so I gave mine. There are many rust free 3rd gens around still and TONS more that need a lot less work then his. Granted, the initial outlay of cash will be more, and he may have to travel to get said car. But it's better then shoddy/unsafe workmanship to get it back on the road. (no offense to the OP, but you better be VERY good at bodywork to repair that car properly) Fixing a 3rd gen that far gone is a waste of time, effort, and money. Even a TTA in the same condition wouldn't be worth it.

Just my .02 worth

kevmann

Well said Knotty. Actually I kind of agree with both of you. Mine is not worth crap but I want to learn. Thee is NO WAY my car is worth it but it has sentimental value. And after I get the rust free shell, I will only have about 500 in the project. So not a lot invested so far anyway.
I cant for 2 reasons. The car was hit in the front and its a hardtop while I want to keep my t-top roof. It is so close to perfect that there is one or 2 small pinholes in the rear. Passenger side is perfect. Rear quarters have nearly no rust but a little surface rust.(Very little.)
Its definately not about value. Its about learning. These cars are easy to get parts for so anyone can fix one on a budget. And there are not many if any rust free cars up this way unles sthey were well preserved or restored. My floors are nearly as bad as the pics. Thats why when I saw this car today I almost flipped. Its such a rare thing to see around here. Check out Madhatter's t-topping a Camaro thread. You would thing he was crazy until you see it completed.

UNCLE TOM

iTrader: (1)

rust/corrosion is a cancer . it can only be removed/media blasted/&treated or covered over . the best is to do one of the above not cover over . it's a curse we all live with on 3rd gens . do the best you can , or your budget can . good luck .

chevyracingrox

Derth Deboblo- if you wanted to talk about how the car wasn't worth saving, you're only a year too late. in fact, you might want to check out my project thread that stemmed from that debate https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...ix-should.html the input I'm referring to is for the fixing of the rust, not the ditching of the car. sorry for the confusion.
It isn't that my car has sentimental value, I've spent a lot of money on other cars only to have so much less than this car has. There's a reason I put myself through it though. I can learn so much on a car like this. I see a lot of kids my age that like cars, but they've never done anything really notable or even without daddy's help. I'm proud to say I've done everything I can by myself, and that's everything with a couple exeptions. I have yet to meet another 17 year old with as much experience and know how as me.
As far as money is concerned, I've spent 800 on my car so far (including the 200 to buy it) so sfc's and building floorboards is just another expense. speaking of spending money on a car that's not worth it, you'd **** you're pants if you heard i'm almost sold on the idea of doing 3.73s and rear disk swap while the rear is out. Yep, all on a V6 too. If people just give up and throw away our cars there won't be any left.
Kevmann-glad to hear input from someone only a couple hours away. you would probably agree with me that my rust is basically the same as any other third gen around our area.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Well except for those who can drive the crap outta a game controller!

Go get 'em Kiddo! Remember: "The world belongs to those willing to get their hands dirty!"

chevyracingrox

thanks knotty, I'm damn good at realistic racing games too though, lol. this is my thread about the sfc's I'm planning on building. the past couple posts are the most relevent and important. hopefully picking up the metal today.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ding-sfcs.html

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

I looked at a lot of the SFC's before I settled on the UMI's. I like the way they go over the trailing arm brackets to strengthen them. The OEM material is pretty flimsy if you ask me. I also had a problem between the trailing arm bracket and the inner rocker panel. It was broken loose which further compromised the structure. I was able to fill that in with a piece of 1/8" flatbar welded to the bracket and the inner rocker. This tied it all back together and is stronger than OEM. I'm just waiting for it to dry up a lil' bit and the kid show up (he's the welder) and we'll finish the SFC installation today. I'll post pics on my rust bucket thread when we're done.

chevyracingrox

yep, UMI has designed some great sfc's. the trailing arm bracket area you're refering to is something I'm designing based off of UMI's design. I started on my sfc's today, got 14 guage 1x2 tubing. closest to what I wanted, but I'm really impressed how well it fits I actually like that size better than 1.5x1 that I wanted, it looks beefier. pics tomorrow.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Well we got the drivers side SFC tacked in. It fits just ok. I had to put a filler piece in one side of the main boss that welds to the fwd frame section. The frame is caved in a bit but that wasn't the problem it was the angle of the L boss that you weld to the frame. Anyhow a filler strip and a few whacks from the sledge whipped it into shape. The other side is going to be a real challenge working around the cat. I really really don't want to have to drop the exhaust system.

You will likely not have these problems with your own custom made SFC's as you're building them to fit your specific car. Good luck. Looking forward to seeing the pics.

chevyracingrox

no, I haven't had clearance problems yet, but I've been in that situation. I have really been measuring a couple dozen times before I cut anything, and I keep checking myself to make sure I have everything planned before I do anything permanent. hopefully it'll pay off. I'm building these a lot better than I thought I could have.

chevyracingrox

doesn't look like much, but they do look pretty good IMO.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

A 67 GT with a 427 isn't a 67 GT with a 427 (the big block GT that year should have been a 390).

Another good example of this is that I did _everything_ myself on my 83... I loved that car, it wasn't perfect but it did everything right WRT to the things that mattered to me.

In '97 I bought my '97WS6... perfect and shiny... spent money on the "right" parts... I still have the car, but I've never been happy with it.

Instead, I'm building up an '87.... doing everything myself... currently building a megasquirt for it, welding my own brackets on the 9" for it, my own suspension parts, bodywork, turbo setup. Why? Because I can, and because everything will be done _exactly_ the way I would have done it with my 2 hands because guess what... I did.

I'm not doing this because I'm broke or can't buy an new toy (my current beater parts chaser for the project is a newish Cummins Ram, of course, that has custom made stuff on it also), I'm doing it because that's what I want.

A car that is what it is and does what it does just because you built it that way is very different to own than buying even the most perfect, fastest car that does everything "right."

Pew

All derth is saying there is a point where a project car is not worth the time a effort it needs to be put into it. When better ones can be had. He is simply stating that these cars are not rare you can find one with good bodys all over. I can find them and i live in the rust belt and havent paid much for them. And the the thread ask for input and feedback that is what he gave. I'm sorry the cars we have are not rare there comes a point where you cut your losses. Derth has a valid point. So i'm not sure why every one is bashing him when he was simply offering his input/ feedback.

chevyracingrox

pew-you and derth sure have a negative attitude for a project you don't have to do anything with. just sit back, relax, and watch as the car slowly transforms before your eyes. have some hope, there has always been more rusted cars come back to be great again. I completely understand your point that the car isn't worth it, I tell myself that every day, but I just don't care. its my project and I can finish it, so I will finish it. I can hardly wait until its done.

Derth Deboblo

You asked for opinions...

Maybe I came across a bit harsh?? I really don't care what you do with it. Your $$$ not mine.


Like I said, I was just providing feedback and opinions, that's all. I personally just don't see the point in fixing a 3rd gen this bad. Especially when rust free/rot free 3rd gens are out there. Yeah, a little more $$ outlay in the beginning. Not to mention wading through the idiots who think there car is classic/rare. But look a little bit, the good one's are all over. In the end, we're just trying to help save you grief/time/and money. Me and my brother (Pew) are just realists, that's all.

chevyracingrox

derth and pew-yea, I think I was a little harsh too, no big deal. I know it's a crazy thing to do all this to a car like mine, but I want to. I know you don't think its worth it, but I hope you keep following the build regardless.

Derth Deboblo

That's cool. I'll prolly check in every so often.

FireChicken2.8

iTrader: (1)

Wow, am I the only one who has found this thread somewhat inspirational? Once I tore the interior out of my Iroc and saw how much rust was there, I was kind of discourged. But I was many hours into the project, and its the car I want. Everything else is in great shape. Mine is nowhere near what chevy's is, and now I feel that I can definitely do it. Sure I could have given up and bought a different car, but where is the fun and satasfaction in having a project with no work involved? You get a much greater sense of accomplishment and a much better feeling knowing you have done it with your own two hands. Maybe its me, I like doing things for myself, but nothing feel better than standing back, looking at something you just finished, and thinking "wow, I just did THAT with my own two hands."
Keep up the good work chevy and don't let anyone discourage you! Can't wait to see how this turns out for you!

chevyracingrox

this really isn't rocket science, repairing rust is an all to common thing to do. if you don't know how to weld, learn, its an indispensable skill. looks good on a resume'. when you really add up all that I'm spending on metal i haven't spent much, so far $26, but I haven't gotten the sheet metal yet or bought the wire and gas to use my friend's welder.

FireChicken2.8

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for trying to encourage you, I didn't realize it would make you angry.

FireChicken2.8

iTrader: (1)

And as for welding, I'm a welder by trade, done this pleanty of times, just trying to encourage others, its not as hard as it seems.

Awesome-X

I don't really think he was putting it a context that he was angry, just that most people should really take the time to learn a skill that can come in handy alot when you do work like this. Anyways great job on the build and I hope you post lots of pics!

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

this attitude is the reason why all the older cars are going for too much money now and when you keep up that shitty attitude, it's going to happen to 3rd gens. if someone is willing to do the extensive rust repair on their own car, you should not be telling them not to do it because it's not worth it. the more there are left, the cheaper and more fun this hobby is.

chevyracingrox

no, i'm trying to encourage others. I like your attitude about fixing cars like this and I was speaking on it. I guess i should have worded myself a little better, sorry.