campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I've seen a bunch of posts where people talk about refusing to part out or junk cars that are in bad shape, simply because they don't want to kill another 3rd gen. They'd rather fix and repair it than let it die. Good idea, preserve the past, preserve the cars that we all love. But what does it take?

I felt odd last weekend when I was sold a bunch of body parts off of a firebird that was being stripped down to the motor and frame and being turned into some sort of custom ride. But now I'm closing a deal on a cheap parts car, and realizing that if I get it, that thing is gonna get stripped down so bad I'm not sure if it would really qualify as "car" as opposed to simply scrap metal.

Now I know I didn't start with the best car, but my first thought was to save it, my second being that I didn't want to start out with a perfect car, as I wanted to learn how to do a lot of things myself. But the death toll is going to be at least 2 for my 1 to live. And this doesn't count the various other parts car I will inevitably be buying from as time goes on. How about you guys? How many cars did you have to strip, part out, or downright destroy so that yours could stay on the road?

z28gsxr

iTrader: (5)

parts cars are usually cars that the owner wants nothing to do with. They are cars that if you don't buy they will most likely junk them. So I say go for it buy the parts car. Atleast you are using it as a donor for your vehicle. I don't see anything wrong with that. I bought a vert as a parts car but i ended up using the parts from my hard top on the vert and completely stripped my hard top and its going to scrap metal tonight

okfoz

The beauty of it all is that the more you part out the less of them that survive, in the end the nice ones are worth more. I rejoice in a sick way to see Third gens in junk yards, it means 1) more pickens for me and 2) my car just went up in value by a dollar.

John

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Haha, nice perspective. Its gonna take a miracle to make my 91 worth much, as its a base model with a rebuilt title, but I guess if I can get it to really shine, and go on a car crushing frenzy, it might be worth a couple bucks, lol.

mpb74

i'm glad so many are being scrapped. it makes my car go up in value.
plus, i like searching the junk yard looking for parts.

z28gsxr

iTrader: (5)

I just scrapped my 85 yesterday. My cousin came and picked it up to go sell it as scrap metal. But nothing left on it is usable I stripped it and sold everything after i grabbed the engine and trans for my vert. I kind of felt bad sending a clean title z28 to scrap

afremont

In 25 years, you will no longer "feel bad" about it. You'll seriously regret it. And you'll be boring your friends and family to tears with repeated tales of how you scrapped a perfectly restorable Z with a title. Each time you recite your story, the car will sound better and better, until your description of the car sounds like they drove it into the crusher with perfect paint and the window sticker still on it. Or maybe not.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I'm gonna know the feeling soon. My incoming parts car has a clean title, and my project car has a rebuilt title. However, the parts car looks like its been rattle canned with lime green paint, then been hit with shopping carts for the last few decades.

z28gsxr

iTrader: (5)

lol no i bought a 91 vert but its an RS so i doubt i'll miss it lol. But no i completely stripped it grabbed the parts i needed and sold everything else. It was pretty much just the frame, hatch(surprisingly nobody wanted it even though it was free) and junk wheels lol. And when i would tell the story i would say but i used it to save this car

VonKaiser

Both of you guys need your head examined. I don't care if YOUR cars go up in value--as a WHOLE 3rd gens need to be cherished and coveted. If the frame is straight restore it. Let it sit for 5-10 years if needed before you do it, just don't scrap them or crush them. I'm pesonally insulted everytime I see a non-wrecked 3rd gen in a salvage yard. Think of all those people that think the way you two did in the 70's about 60's musclecars. Now they are kicking themselves. I don't care if my 3rd gen is worth $1 or $100,000 to other people in years time--it shouldn't be about worth in terms of monetary amount but emotional amount to those who own them or even look at them. You've seem my spray painted car--I've been offered 3x what it is realistically worth from people looking for a donor car or drag car. I won't sell it, ever.

Good post sir.

One day if I ever get rich I'll buy as many 3rd gens as I can get my hands on just to prevent them ending up in junk yards and the crusher.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

With that being the case, when I get done taking parts off of my soon to be acquired parts car, would you like to buy the hail/shopping cart/baseball bat damaged unibody? I think it might be fairly straight. $200!

84 trans am

I agree with vonkaiser. Right now i am buying a 92 camaro because some guy blew the motor and doesnt want to fix it so he is planning to send a very nice anniversary car to the scrap yard. I cant afford to go buy every third gen i see just rotting in a field but i do my share. Now i have 3 thirdgens and two of them have been saved from the crusher, they arent all imaculate but running driveable cars and i get satisfaction knowing i have saved even a couple thirdgens from the junkyard.

Iroctopless

I think both sides have a good point.
A - There's nothing we can do to completely eliminate the scrapping and crushing of all the cars. So there's nothing really wrong with appreciating the fact that as some rides sadley meet there demise, your's becomes more of a prized jewel.
B - Now is the time, if you've ever put it off, to get your hands on the 3rd gen of your choice while they are still reasonably available. You have been warned. You have been educated. Become the owner of one now, even if it's a rough ride. You've got no excuses now to end up being those "kicking themselves" people.

TF34MECHH

1st generation Camaro's with 6 cylinders are not cheap. What does that say?

885speed

iTrader: (1)

All in all, I've taken from 4 different cars in the local JY.
2 85 2.8 SC's
a 92 hardtop
and an 87 IROC...

Me too!
You should have seen my jaw drop when I walked into my local junkyard and found a BEAUTIFULL 87 blue with silver GFX IROC 5.7 TPI sitting on axels...
I felt kind of ashamed seeing it like it was, and then stealing the console lid and 145 speedo from it...

Walked away from it that day shaking my head.



Exactally!
If I could, I would have a garage filled to the brim with 3rd gens and only 3rd gens. All different and unique in their own ways, with their own reason to be kept alive.

Just like my 88, shes my first car, and going to be my last.
I don't care if it gets stolen, totaled, or anything.
It will always be worth at least trying to fix.

Although I do have plans in the future to hopefully purchase a 91-92 in horrible shape and turning it into a road-track racer, full cage, etc.

82taluver

i couldnt agree more.we need to save as many as possible. once theey are gone thats it no more. i feel bad every time i see a 3rd gen in the yard but we cant stop what other people choose to do, if it wasnt for stupid people i wouldnt have my GTA so it kinda works in our favor but it still hurts us.

VonKaiser

If I had the extra money I would yes.

I plan on getting a few 3rd gens in my lifetime--I consider it a duty to at least own 2. Anymore would be going far beyond the call of duty.

I got my console as well as alot of other parts from a beautiful straight 91-92 blue Camaro--I would buy it but I don't have the extra $$$.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

I'll admit, I've had four parts cars, and they were even Z28's and T/A's. BUT, in my defense, the uni-bodies were severely rusted in several important areas except for one car, and it did not have a title. I stripped the shells bare too.

It does make me sick to see good restorable third gens in the junkyards, especially when they look nice and probably just had a mechanical failure of some kind.

VERTIGO Z28

iTrader: (1)

Oh man don't even get me started on parts cars. I buy em and chop em even if I don't need the parts. It's almost to the point around here that you don't see rust bombs anymore. Denny and I together have chopped almost 300 of them. I'm not joking.

82knightrider

iTrader: (1)

Its a sacrafice that needs to be done in order to pimp your car. If thats what it takes so be it. Just give them a nice little going away party .




I parted my car out.RIP,youll always have a spot in my heart.

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

Every time you part out a car and send it to the junkyard for your measly $50-$100, think about the people who would pay more just to save it. They don't make them anymore, and you guys will want an easy find in the future. But if you just want them to be sent to the junkyard, it won't happen. I know i won't suffice for a 4th gen project car.

okfoz

Just because I decided to make a simple chart to show how I see the values of cars. As you can see in the chart there are some things that really effect the value. 1 is time, 2 is Desirability and 3 is the availability.

As the Availability goes down, this is a slowly declining number as more cars get crushed, in accidents etc, the Value goes up as the number of interested people stays a rather constant as the car ages and Innflation takes effect.

Enjoy...

John

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Thats... awesome.

I wasn't exactly expecting a charted value explaining the effect of the loss of cars... very nice.

Iroctopless

I studied your chart and I agree with what it says. Especially how it represents our current ride values as just past the depreciation point and beginning to appreciate. That is a HUGE milestone in a car's life when it begins it increase in value again.
In fact, I would probably bump up the current values even a little higher. My LB9 5spd vert (currently at the 19 years old mark) over the last 6 years has been consistantly been appraised at slightly higher than the original new value.

1984Z28HO

i have personaly sent two to the scrap... both 84 z-28, but the third 84 i got from a friend i felt bad for cause the body is in really good shape so i'm building it.. the more at the scrap the more my iroc is worth

Cadillac

Impressive work, John! Solid logic.

TADailyDriver

iTrader: (8)

great chart and i have 3 third gens in my barn, an 89 formula thats totaled and being parted out,a 92 rs camaro that im building, and my 88 trans am that i drive. But as much as i hate tosee them parted then destroyed, im in a way glad to see them go because liek everyone says, it makes our still running 3rd gens go up in value. If not our cars would be worthless dime a dozen cars. Yes you may see alot of them still around, But each one has its own unique options that make each car worth its own. I know my kelly blue book on my car now is only 4,500, but in a few more years if the destruction of more and more third gens keeps up, it will be worth maybe double that. Just think that if back in the 60's and 70's when camaros were popular, if none or very little of them were destroyed, my friends 75 yenko camaro wouldnt be worth 75,000 now, when you could buy them new off the lot w/ full options for less then 10,000.

Iroctopless

Don't go by what Kelley Blue Book says. They literally make up their numbers for used cars. Sure they try to take a few pieces of evidence, guess what the market says, original dealer price, throw in some depreciation, etc, but in the end it's just a best guess. Most times, especially as the more unique cars like ours are getting 20+ years old, their numbers do not reflect reality and are slow to adjust.
Get your ride appraised if you want a closer idea (and for insurance purposes).
A great example is my ride. Kelley Blue Book for my car as excellent condition private sale is only $3,155!!!!!!!!! My appraisel is more than $10,000 more!!!!!
Just look in almost any "for sale" publication or online. Even good straight higher mileage daily divers are going for that much.

Is this all my car is worth????

okfoz

KBB uses a calculation based on the original purchase price and then reduces it by a percentage based on the age. Its not scentific by any means and it has nothing to do with reality. It works for most cars that will never gather collector status. I suspect thats why they stop calculating after 20 years, once a car gets to 10 to 20 years old some start to appreciate again and its too difficult to actually track those values. NADA on the other hand tends to be a little more accurate. Although a little research shows that even NADA is actually on the low side as well with the ebay values going thru the roof right now. Its actually nice to see...

As stated before, the days of the cheep nice old Third Gens is coming to a close.

John

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Well I got the parts car this weekend, and I don't feel so bad now. While the things I need are there, it has truly seen its last days of road use. Somewhere along the line it had a monster powertrain dumped into it, without appropriatly having the unibody/frame built up with it, and it has seen its share of damage.

There is alot of rust under the paint. You could probably save a panel you needed, but getting every piece of sheetmetal right would take years. On towing it back, the thing was twisting and paint was cracking. It was bad enough that it cracked the windshield during travel. This car has seen too many mods and few of them were very pro. Looks like someone just dropped a monster between the fenders, rattle canned it green and beat it to death. It is time for it to give its life for the good of the rest. So...

Who wants parts? lol

1984Z28HO

lets see some pictures of it

a mack6

iTrader: (1)

Some 3rd Gens are appreciating in value as we speak. According to NADA, a Heritage Edition Camaro is worth ~$2000 more than it was worth a year and a half ago. Big change if you ask me.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Rare models will always have extra value over non rare counterparts. Original cars will always be worth more then non originals. Cars that have been modified will always have less value, and if it has been totally abused it's going tom be a long wait. You'all will be getting pretty old before the most abused 3rd gens have any significant value as collector cars. The originals out there will have to sky rocket, in order to make it feasable to restore one that is trashed. Look at the 60's muscle cars. It has taken them 40 years for them to appreciate to the current high point in prices. Case in point, a 66 GTO numbers matching, clean car may go for 40 to 80K, but a decent GTO clone made from a non numbers matching Tempest, can be bought for 10K. As thirdgens diminish in numbers the costs of restoration parts is going to skyrocket.

SchwarzCamaroRS

that car looks awful familiar... glad ur enjoying it man

Jason E

I question the "enthusiasts" on this board who could somehow take joy in seeing these cars in a boneyard, versus being on the road where they belong. That's kind of shameful, if you ask me. If someone saw a '69 Camaro, rebuildable, in a boneyard, it would be an awful sight and someone would save it for sure. But in the mid '70s, it was a rusty used car. Time will catch up with these cars, and those of you who don't preserve, but junk, rebuildable cars will be very, very sorry.

For me personally, I love the fact that I've saved and restored my RS. Will it ever be worth much? No, not for a long time anyway. I currently have nearly $11k tied up in my car, with everything from a beautiful, properly done paint job to polished TT2s to a variety of decent bolt ons. The car is a joy to drive, and while not being as quick or as comfortable as my '97, it gets more praise and thumbs up from people on the street. 2 years ago, it was a $1,000 wholesale piece we took in on trade. It isn't the fastest, but I did this car over with a distinct purpose. I wanted a 3rd gen, M5, V8 driver that I could drive 5-7k miles a year in nice weather (I have a demo for a DD), and not worry about wracking up miles on a pristine original. Did I intend to spend this much? Hell no...my limit was $10k, with something approaching a decent stereo in it. I'm at $11k and I still need a carpet, headliner, driver's seat restoration and a stereo. But a partial repaint became a full repaint, a simple valve cover gasket change for an oil leak became a whole top end regasket (don't get me started on that one ), and as every step has come, I've gone the extra mile to ensure reliability, quality and peace of mind. It has one set of bolted on SFCs, but it still rattles too much for my liking, so that set will be welded, and another set will likely be added as well, for better preservation of the unibody.

Will I get my money back? Not in the short term...but the car isn't for sale anyway. I saved a car that no one else in the immediate area probably would have, and it serves its purpose for me beautifully. I can't wait to call the guy who traded it in 2 years ago, and show him what the car has become (he said he wanted to see it when he was done, but he might not be happy with what he gave up?? ). My ONLY concern is getting it appraised high enough that I won't lose my shirt if some kid hits me and wrecks it. I need to get it appraised and see what my insurance carrier will say...its hard to get collector insurance on a '91 Camaro

Could I have spent less on a very clean, low mileage IROC? I sure could have...but it wouldn't be as "new" as this car is, with all its fresh paint and parts, I'd be neurotic to drive it or park it, and chances are the IROC would not need to be saved...this one needed to be. Its a constant reminder of my childhood...one that I can drive for years to come. Sometimes I regret the decision to save a not-so-special one...

Then I turn the key

Iroctopless

That comment reminded me of my neighbour's Camaro where I grew up.

WARNING: I took this pic only 2 years ago ad it's still sitting there!!!!!

Myself and others have tried to buy it but he refuses to sell and has no plans for it. Now it's just basically rotting away.
Why god, why?????!!!!!!!!

okfoz

I take no "Joy" in seeing an old Third gen in a bone yard. Its more of a time of reflection (of how one day long ago it stood as a new car to a proud owner) prayer (as I hope to find something useful) and Rejoice (when I find something of value). I think its more of Happiness since Joy is a spiritual term where Happiness is based upon luck and is much shorter lived (usually until the curators of the establishment where I procured the desired item give me a flamboiant quote for the part they stated would be much less to begin with.)

I sometimes have a bit of sorrow and mornfullness in my heart when I see something special that could have been nice, unfortunately most Third gens in junkyards today are so badly beaten by previous owners that they are not worth much more than scrap metal. 10 years ago they were much nicer cars in junkyards....
----------
WHere else would he store his birdhouses, garden hose and bicycles? your taking all that storage away from him... And besides we don't want those bricks to get wet under there... If your REALLY serious about buying it, Take $2000 CASH (its a must) and flash it and say I will take it off your hands.. Money speaks louder than words...

z28gsxr

iTrader: (5)

hahahaha thanx on the awsome deal man I've been slacking on finishing my 5spd swap because i'm trying to buy a house but it should be done soon. All holes are cut for teh swap i just need to mount trans and clutch.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I do not enjoy the idea of taking apart my parts car. In fact, it has raced across my mind a few times that I could try and restore both cars. But the parts car has been abused throughout it's life, and while many of the stuff that bolts onto the car is ok, the frame and unibody show serious problems. There are many other 3rd gen's that need parts, and many parts this car could donate. And while it comes apart, my black 'bird is starting to breath new life.

TADailyDriver

iTrader: (8)

Same thing with my 89 formula. I would LOVE to restore it and make it bring it back to its orginal beauty, but after hitting a 1 ton chevy and twisting the a frame, then sitting in a bran rotting away for 3-4 years, the car is long gone body was as the underbody is all rust and shows no sign of reguvination. If i had the money to strip it, have the a frame straightened and sandblasted underbody i would go for it in a heart beat. But since i cant, im swappibng the t5 into my 88 Trans Am w/ a 700r4 and then pulling its motor and dropping that into my 92 RS. The rest has mostly been sold but no panels are saveable. It just shames me everytime i open my barn door to see it sitting on jackstands all wrecked. I can only think of the days when this car use to rule the roads and bring joy to peoples lives, but for now it just sits crying to be saved when in reality, its gone like so many others......

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Are our cars old enough yet to be called survivors? I feel like my car is an old soldier from some long ago war, still standing proud, but showing the battle scars of the ages.

gatorcola

I've enjoyed reading this thread for the simple reason it gives me pleasure to see the passion for third gens we all have. There are valid points to parting / restoring but there's no doubt that parting gives renewed life to others. It disturbs me to see a trashed 3rdgen rattle down the road but it gives me nightmares to see one dead at the end of its road. I paid sticker in 88 for my beauty and I wouldn't take that 23k for her right now; cash.

I hate to think of harm coming to her, or her loss godforbid. I really do need to get her appraised, however. The pittance I would receive would magnify the sorrow big time.

IROCNMIHEAD

My baby was purchase right before she was headed to the junk yard so I have no regrets the best car I ever bought, check her out on my profile

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

I'll walk into the local junk yard once or twice a month and see a new 3rd Gen arrival. I always wonder how that particular car came under such misfortune or neglect that it wound up at a junk yard. Who were these people that didn't or couldn't maintain a vehicle just good enough to keep it out of the junkyard. I came to the conclusion that it's economics. Blown engine on a 83 Camaro? Is it worth $5000 for the average person to pay Mr. Goodwrench full dealer price for a new engine? Nope...sit in the yard for 5-10 years...Junkyard. Blown tranny? sit in the yard 5-10 years...Junkyard. Vehicle collision with a $6000 insurance settlement? I'll fix it later and keep the money. Sits in the yard 5-10 years...Yep, Junkyard.

When I see one these cars I wonder what I would be able to do with it. I have average car skills. And the answer is usually "Nothing". They're too far gone, too much of a mystery. The economics of restoring are too difficult to justify.

One of the reasons I chose a 3rd Gen was because they were cheap and pleantiful. I could buy parts all day long for next to nothing. I rarely lost a bid on EBAY because nobody else was bidding. Now with the popularity climbing I haven't won an auction in weeks. The price for parts has skyrocketed. It's gotten insane. $350 for a set of USED rocker emblems? give me a break. $100 for a set of USED seat bolt covers...no way. There has to be sacrafice to keep the interest in the 3rd Gen. There has to be a supply of cheap obtainable parts because we're heading in the direction that the 1st Gen owners are in now, High dollar products that keep the average enthusiast shut out. No matter what, we'll get there one day anyhow.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I guess this is sorta why I love demo derbies. I take a car that is long past restorable, and usually non-running, get it running and give it one last moment in the sun with fresh paint and the engine roaring for one last time.

Some hate the idea that I destroy cars like that, but I prefer to see a car go out in a blaze of glory, being the center of attention under the spotlights for its final showing, than rotting in a yard or slowly dismantled.

As I take apart the '83 Firebird, I feel a little bit like she's an organ donor. Maybe that eases the idea of killing it. Maybe this is all just my own reflection on my own mortality? I fear I've gone too far now..

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

As promised, here are some pics of the old girl:

The first is a picture of her with the front end taken apart. This is by far the best it has looked, the sheetmetal here was pretty rusty and bad:



next we have a picture of the driver's floorboard, haven't we all dealt with this at some time if our road's see salt?


And finally, the major issue. What you see is a quarterpanel that was severely damaged, then coated in fiberglass, then repainted black. then, it was coated in bondo (by another person maybe?) and repainted this lovely green. Whoever painted it green appears to have not cared about the surface rust that I believe coats this car. They just painted an extra thick coat of green on it. The fractures in the paint indicate the twisting the body is doing. The windshield has also fractured from the twisting:





Aye, she's a goner I think.

TADailyDriver

iTrader: (8)

wow youve really torn that car apart since you towed it away on saturday lol. glad to see the ole girl is going to good use instead of rotting behind my friends shop. How are the floorboards anyways? they looked n sounded good to me but you really cant tell without pulling the carpet..

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

The floorboards around the passenger side and going back into the car are fine, but where the driver's feet are they are really rotten. I'm finding that GM just seemed to not plan for people to have wet feet when entering the car. If you get under the car, there isn't even any rust.

But as I said, there's a ton of rust under the green paint. None of it seems to go too deep, but its all there. Someone didn't prep the car before they painted it.

gatorcola

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how a car can rust away like that. I mean a place or two because of damage but good grief. Why?

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Well in the rustbelt states, its unfortunatly easy. More modern paints have helped things out a ton, but prior to about 1996 or so, most cars didn't stand a chance of lasting more than 10 or 15 years with the common owner. Most people don't check under their cars for rust, and the floorboards can pretty much disappear before they realize what happened.