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Old 08-27-2009, 06:03 AM   #1
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The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Hello, I'm still relatively new here. I joined after i started restoring my 82 trans am.
The reason for this thread is this:
I LOVE Third gens but we know that they are not the most popular generation of f bodys. Everyone desires the other generations first. What are people going to think of our cars 20 or 30 yrs down the road? especially our firebirds? Towards the end of my engine swap and restoration i almost started wishing that i put my 406 into a third gen camaro. I wondered if down the road people were gonna think of our firebirds the same way we now look back at the Chevelles, Novas and El Caminos.(yes, i like el caminos) or if they were still gonna think that we have the most undesireable f body ever.
Camaro got lucky that it got resurrected and is living up to its reputation, but no more Firebirds, no more Trans Ams, no more PONTIAC??

Maybe i'm just freaking out over nothing, and maybe others feel the same way.
But either way, i want know get some input from my fellow third gen owners. I need a little morale boost. and God Bless
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:56 AM   #2
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Our cars will never be desired like the muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's.

We have a large community only because the cars are cheap and plentiful.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:46 AM   #3
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Our cars will never be desired like the muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's.

We have a large community only because the cars are cheap and plentiful.
the response i was dreading. But very truthful. Thanks for the input codename.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:15 AM   #4
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Our cars will never be desired like the muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's.

We have a large community only because the cars are cheap and plentiful.
I respectively disagree with you. There was a time when the 60's and 70's muscle cars were plentiful. So plentiful that they were used and abused. Because they were raced, modified, crashed and even left to rust out. Now there are not many left and the ones that are left have been restored, which costs $$$. Now those people who had them, over 50-60 years old, now want them but now they also have the cash and time.

Now go to the 80's muscles cars, camaros, t/a's, grand nationals, Monte Carlo SS.... They were also plentiful, used and abused, raced, modified, crashed and left to rot. Who do you think are going to want these cars? Peope in their 30's - 40's who had them and now have the time and money for them again. So I belive that these 3rd gen cars will be very desirable, maybe not as much a 60's-70's cars but worth alot more then they are now.

I can speak from experience because I am 37 years old and saw and lived these cars when they were brand new. Loved them then and love them even more now, almost 30 years later. These are the cars of my youth and I know I can't go back in tiime and be 15 years old again but I feel it each time I get in and drive my car.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:25 AM   #5
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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I respectively disagree with you. There was a time when the 60's and 70's muscle cars were plentiful. So plentiful that they were used and abused. Because they were raced, modified, crashed and even left to rust out. Now there are not many left and the ones that are left have been restored, which costs $$$. Now those people who had them, over 50-60 years old, now want them but now they also have the cash and time.

Now go to the 80's muscles cars, camaros, t/a's, grand nationals, Monte Carlo SS.... They were also plentiful, used and abused, raced, modified, crashed and left to rot. Who do you think are going to want these cars? Peope in their 30's - 40's who had them and now have the time and money for them again. So I belive that these 3rd gen cars will be very desirable, maybe not as much a 60's-70's cars but worth alot more then they are now.

I can speak from experience because I am 37 years old and saw and lived these cars when they were brand new. Loved them then and love them even more now, almost 30 years later. These are the cars of my youth and I know I can't go back in tiime and be 15 years old again but I feel it each time I get in and drive my car.
great post, i do agree and i hope its true.
but anywaythe main purpose of this thread is: would it this hold true also for our trans ams since they've been discontinued indefinately? Would 3rd gen firebirds be worth more than 3rd gen camaros? why or why not?
thx
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:27 AM   #6
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

I agree, i think our cars will be slightly more desirable as time goes on, i mean they will never ever surpass 1st and 2nd gens but eventually they will climb in value. Our generation kinda got screwed over though, were kinda inbetween that classic muscle/modern high hp fuel injected generation, kinda like a "red headed step child". I think the 4th gen cars will slide in price heavily once 5th gens gain a nice foothold but the fact of the matter is our cars were made during an "odd" time in auto history. I personally (besides a 72 Z28) am quite happy with my camaro and t/a. My two "dream cars" are a 3rd gen camaro, and a 240sx. Im only 21 but in autos class a friend has a yellow hardtop iroc and i just loved the damn thing, been hooked ever since. Im really kicking myself in the *** that i have to get rid of my camaro for a t/a but eventually they will get up there. I mean a few are selling at auctions in pristine condition for a nice chunk but they will never alot to a "classic" muscle car or a "modern" fuel injected car, just one of the unfortunate side effects of being in a generation that wasnt really defined by big v8 motors, but rather by the 4cyl turbo engines that thrived. Still though, a nice thirdgen will find a nice home somewhere, not for 100K though and thats what i like about them, knowing that with 5K i can have a car that looks good and is fast, and im not talking "i drive a civic with a turbo so it must be fast".

*edit* in response to your questions specifically about firebirds.

I dont think firebirds of our generations will ever be more than camaros. Even though pontiac is no more. Camaro's have always been more popular, you never hear someone saying hey i want that 2nd gen firebird, its usually hey i want that killer 1st gen camaro, or that 71.5 z28. The only generation i think this doesnt hold true for is the 4th, i believe that 4th gen trans ams will fetch more and they do. The firebird market is more of a nice market among camaro owners, and because of the popularity of 1st gen camaros, i think they will always fetch more than firebirds. Thats not to say that firebirds wont rise in price because they will, it just means you will be able to get a firebird for slightly less than a camaro. Camaro just has more branding prescence than Firebird.

Last edited by Saber; 08-27-2009 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:42 AM   #7
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

nicely done Saber. its sad but true.
omg i have an undesireable trans am. wtf
i knew i shouldve gotten a camaro
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:06 AM   #8
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Quote:
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Our cars will never be desired like the muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's.

We have a large community only because the cars are cheap and plentiful.
you do know there was a time when nobody wanted those cars right? thats where there are so few left. they became dated technology and everybody wanted a small economical car durring the 70's oil crisis.

also the new generation thought they looked bad and wanted datsuns and things like that.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:38 AM   #9
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

eventually tho i want to get a 97 SS.. i bet those would rack up sum cash as the years go by.. dang 4th gens
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:06 PM   #10
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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you do know there was a time when nobody wanted those cars right? thats where there are so few left. they became dated technology and everybody wanted a small economical car durring the 70's oil crisis.

also the new generation thought they looked bad and wanted datsuns and things like that.

my dad was a gearhead during the 60s and 70s. He told me since gas was so outrageous during the oil crisis he ended up selling a couple engines he had as scrap metal since most could not afford the muscle car cost.

I agree with what a lot of others have said on here. No ours won't ever be as valuable as 1st & 2nd gens, but they are becoming more rare every year. They have a good following since they are a cheap project to get into, but they are a sharp looking design that make them worth collecting. I'm already on my third and I'm only 27.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:41 PM   #11
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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nicely done Saber. its sad but true.
omg i have an undesireable trans am. wtf
i knew i shouldve gotten a camaro
Yea, the sad reality. But that wont stop me from enjoying cars i like. Just do what i did, buy a Camaro and a T/A then you get both! lol
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:49 PM   #12
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Yea, the sad reality. But that wont stop me from enjoying cars i like. Just do what i did, buy a Camaro and a T/A then you get both! lol
even though you're joking, that just might be a good idea
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:55 PM   #13
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

I personally think that if your going based on production numbers, in all reality i believe there were more 3rd gen camaros then there was firebirds.
Yes it's true that chevy's camaro is a much more popular car the the firebird. Cars such as the 60s COPOs or Yenkos are highly desirable and made them very popular in today's collectors world. However, i believe rare cars like the firebird HO 400s or the 69 Trans ams (8 only were made in convertibles)... are also highly sought for as well..

In the 3rd gen era, to the populous only certain models will become more desirable based on options and purposes (IE: players challenge cars, firehawks, 1le's, b4cs, etc)...but that doesn't rule out that the irocs or the gtas wouldn't be as desirable....infact i believe they're now becoming the new classics and starting to be a callout for collectors out there. Just about every time you go on Ebay, people are trying to sell cars that they say are irocs or gtas, but isn't...

Every time i drive around I seldomly ever see another GTA like mine. Even at cruise ins or a car shows, just about every time I'm the only one there and wondering where's another fellow birdy i can tweet at!?

I broke down some of the numbers for my car with the help of GTA's Source Page and think my car is kinda rare....
out of 8,470 gtas built in 89 only 1,731 was painted in Flame Red Metallic and out of 8,470 gtas....3,519 came with the beechwood leather interior which mine has (not fond of leather though)
now i wish to break down the ttop option and the 5.7 liter option..then i would get a better understanding how rare my car is...
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:11 AM   #14
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

82TA_JAIME, it seems like you just want people to confirm your belief that 3rd gen firebirds will never be valuable and will always be less than a Camaro. You can believe that if you want, but I disagree.

I see second gen Trans Ams having a huge following! While there is no doubt Camaros are more talked about and popular in the 1st generation, I believe the 2nd gen Firebird is more popular than its Camaro counterpart. Thirdgen Camaros are more plentiful and probably more popular than thirdgen Firebirds... but with the third-gens I think the popularity of Camaros and the lower production number of Firebirds will make for fairly even pricing between the two.

In 1995, 2nd gens were just considered old cars. Cool to some, but not investment material! I know I have seen a sharp decline in the number of 3rd gens driving around in the last couple of years and they're getting harder to find even in junkyards. They have turned the corner and the values are now certainly climbing. On the other side of this recession, it'll be even more noticable.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:48 AM   #15
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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I see second gen Trans Ams having a huge following! While there is no doubt Camaros are more talked about and popular in the 1st generation, I believe the 2nd gen Firebird is more popular than its Camaro counterpart. Thirdgen Camaros are more plentiful and probably more popular than thirdgen Firebirds... but with the third-gens I think the popularity of Camaros and the lower production number of Firebirds will make for fairly even pricing between the two.
I disagree with the fact that firebirds have a larger following in general. They might have a bigger following among firebirds,the 2nd is the most well known of firebirds. I have only seen a handful of 1st gens at shows, and while the second gens are more plentiful, i still see more camaros than firebirds, possibly its a location thing. I for one think that firebirds, and camaros are even(thats why i own both lol). I dont think the price difference will be huge between the two, but just based off branding and opinions the camaro is more well known and will eventually fetch a better price, but i also think that because our cars are basically the same the difference wont be huge, i got my T/A for 1500$, a camaro in similar condition would probably get about 500-600$ more but to me they are the same car. I dont think pontiac going under will really affect the price of our cars also, our cars are long out of production and just cause pontica is no more doesnt mean a thing, there is no plans to resurrect the firebird and its a well known fact, yet people dont pay more for firebirds, even though based off numbers they are more rare.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:51 AM   #16
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

A car is not "worthless" if YOU love it. Sure I kinda hesitate when I tell people what project I am working on, but in the end I like the car and that's all that matters.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:22 PM   #17
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Quote:
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I disagree with the fact that firebirds have a larger following in general.

I didn't say that. I said that I believe the 2nd gen Firebird has a larger following than the 2nd gen Camaro.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:31 PM   #18
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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I didn't say that. I said that I believe the 2nd gen Firebird has a larger following than the 2nd gen Camaro.
I know, i wansnt specific enough in my reply, i means to say that I dont believe the 2nd gen firebird has a bigger following than the camaro. I was just replying directly to you thread as if there was no other specific topic, my bad lol. But im anxious to hear other peoples opinion on this, Like here in florida its rare to see a nice 2nd gen firebird, Camaros are more prevelant, it would also be nice to know why firebird owners have firebirds and why camaro owners pick camaros. I personally dont mind either, with the exception of a 1st gen camaro, i really dont have a specific preference. To me they are one in the same.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:23 PM   #19
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

In the Buffalo, NY area I see more 2nd gen Firebirds than 2nd gen Camaros.... not that I see much of either on the road. In general, I prefer firebirds because they look sleeker and I love the red interior lighting. The hood birds also really work for me. I like their dash designs and seats better too.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:43 PM   #20
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Quote:
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it would also be nice to know why firebird owners have firebirds and why camaro owners pick camaros.
I almost bought a camaro before I got my Bird and i'm glad it turned out the way it did. I much prefer the styling of the bird to the camaro(inside and out).
Fate?? You should already know the answer to that...the prices on them will slowly but surely go up. Just as the past gens have. It really depends on options/how original it is or how modified/mileage/condition. I don't know about camaros but some pontiacs still hold much of their value. The 89TTA cars still go for at LEAST $15k, and the Firehawks...well, those are in the mid to upper 20s or even more. They're only going to go up more in price. Now, the lower models which have larger production numbers and not as rare options, those will probably still remain at the price they're at now for another 10-15years.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:34 PM   #21
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Quote:
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Our cars will never be desired like the muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's.

We have a large community only because the cars are cheap and plentiful.
Yeah its true what you say, out here where I live at theres a 3rd gen maor's runing around but there all crapy looking all miss treated not taken care of the right way but theres always a hand full that attracts people in the street's just like mine and the rest of my Gold Coast F Body crew's cars.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:21 PM   #22
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

I find these threads amusing...

Why do people care if their cars are desired by others? I drive a third gen Trans Am because I want to and am damn proud of my car. I wouldn't trade my car for any first, second, or fourth gen, and couldn't care less about how desirable our cars are. Another benefit of our cars being less popular to the masses is that I purchased my dream car for pennies while others have to shell out big money for their "desirable" cars. Who the hell are "they" to judge the worthiness of my car anyways...

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Old 08-28-2009, 07:22 PM   #23
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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I find these threads amusing...

Why do people care if their cars are desired by others? I drive a third gen Trans Am because I want to and am damn proud of my car. I wouldn't trade my car for any first, second, or fourth gen, and couldn't care less about how desirable our cars are. Another benefit of our cars being less popular to the masses is that I purchased my dream car for pennies while others have to shell out big money for their "desirable" cars. Who the hell are "they" to judge the worthiness of my car anyways...

Definitely agree!! I've been driving only thirdgen cars for the last 22 years!!! I would not trade one minute in my thirdgen for a day in anybody else's car.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:16 PM   #24
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

I am 49 and when I started driving in 1975 I bought many USED CARS and they were all cars like 69 Roadrunners & GTX, 71 Challenger, 70 Mach I, 69 Camaro, 73 Cuda, etc. I used and abused all of them, wrecked a couple, etc. Wish I had half of them.....lol But, I have to agree that in general 3rd Gens get NO respect in the car community and will be many years before they do. Sad, but true.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:10 AM   #25
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockinGTA89 View Post
I personally think that if your going based on production numbers, in all reality i believe there were more 3rd gen camaros then there was firebirds.
Yes it's true that chevy's camaro is a much more popular car the the firebird. Cars such as the 60s COPOs or Yenkos are highly desirable and made them very popular in today's collectors world. However, i believe rare cars like the firebird HO 400s or the 69 Trans ams (8 only were made in convertibles)... are also highly sought for as well..

In the 3rd gen era, to the populous only certain models will become more desirable based on options and purposes (IE: players challenge cars, firehawks, 1le's, b4cs, etc)...but that doesn't rule out that the irocs or the gtas wouldn't be as desirable....infact i believe they're now becoming the new classics and starting to be a callout for collectors out there. Just about every time you go on Ebay, people are trying to sell cars that they say are irocs or gtas, but isn't...

Every time i drive around I seldomly ever see another GTA like mine. Even at cruise ins or a car shows, just about every time I'm the only one there and wondering where's another fellow birdy i can tweet at!?

I broke down some of the numbers for my car with the help of GTA's Source Page and think my car is kinda rare....
out of 8,470 gtas built in 89 only 1,731 was painted in Flame Red Metallic and out of 8,470 gtas....3,519 came with the beechwood leather interior which mine has (not fond of leather though)
now i wish to break down the ttop option and the 5.7 liter option..then i would get a better understanding how rare my car is...
i know what you mean. Check out what this dood wants for his GTA. Crazy huh.
http://boise.craigslist.org/cto/1338539440.html
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:21 AM   #26
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Originally Posted by 82FirebirdTA View Post
I find these threads amusing...

Why do people care if their cars are desired by others? I drive a third gen Trans Am because I want to and am damn proud of my car. I wouldn't trade my car for any first, second, or fourth gen, and couldn't care less about how desirable our cars are. Another benefit of our cars being less popular to the masses is that I purchased my dream car for pennies while others have to shell out big money for their "desirable" cars. Who the hell are "they" to judge the worthiness of my car anyways...

i do understand what you're saying but maybe you misunderstood(with a due respect). i have always loved both birds and camaros of ANY year. but it just so happened that when i looked for my next vehicle, ALL 4th gens were over priced, and all 2nd gens were in too bad of shape to even work with. Needless to say, i DID get a great deal on my bird, but without wanting to i almost feel like im almost more proud of the engine in it than the generation im sitting in. i DO respect all generations, but i also admit that my own downfall is caring too much about what others think about the car im in whether i smoke em or not.(havent lost a race yet with the 406).
but in all reality, i started this thread cuz i wanted other ppls opinions on the subject, not my own train of thought.(with all due respect)
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:27 AM   #27
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Originally Posted by JeremyNYR View Post
82TA_JAIME, it seems like you just want people to confirm your belief that 3rd gen firebirds will never be valuable and will always be less than a Camaro. You can believe that if you want, but I disagree.

I see second gen Trans Ams having a huge following! While there is no doubt Camaros are more talked about and popular in the 1st generation, I believe the 2nd gen Firebird is more popular than its Camaro counterpart. Thirdgen Camaros are more plentiful and probably more popular than thirdgen Firebirds... but with the third-gens I think the popularity of Camaros and the lower production number of Firebirds will make for fairly even pricing between the two.

In 1995, 2nd gens were just considered old cars. Cool to some, but not investment material! I know I have seen a sharp decline in the number of 3rd gens driving around in the last couple of years and they're getting harder to find even in junkyards. They have turned the corner and the values are now certainly climbing. On the other side of this recession, it'll be even more noticable.
Not really, i mainly want ppls opinions... then again maybe some confirmation too... heck i dunno... i guess i just wanna feel like i did make the right choice for picking the bird i chose.
it cost me so much cashflow and time to finally get that engine started and re-do the interior(which made me get closer to my bird) so i DO appreciate my ride either way since i put alot of heart into it.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:37 AM   #28
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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I respectively disagree with you. There was a time when the 60's and 70's muscle cars were plentiful. So plentiful that they were used and abused. Because they were raced, modified, crashed and even left to rust out. Now there are not many left and the ones that are left have been restored, which costs $$$. Now those people who had them, over 50-60 years old, now want them but now they also have the cash and time.

Now go to the 80's muscles cars, camaros, t/a's, grand nationals, Monte Carlo SS.... They were also plentiful, used and abused, raced, modified, crashed and left to rot. Who do you think are going to want these cars? Peope in their 30's - 40's who had them and now have the time and money for them again. So I belive that these 3rd gen cars will be very desirable, maybe not as much a 60's-70's cars but worth alot more then they are now.

I can speak from experience because I am 37 years old and saw and lived these cars when they were brand new. Loved them then and love them even more now, almost 30 years later. These are the cars of my youth and I know I can't go back in tiime and be 15 years old again but I feel it each time I get in and drive my car.
I too disagree. I was 20 when I got my first Camaro. It was a beauty. A 1969 SS Camaro Pace Car Convertible. Quiet an achievement for an inner city college student . And my room mate drove a black 1976 third gen (Berlinetta) off the showroom floor. Two young guys with Camaro's that we both paid a total of $500.00 for. Yes I bought mine for $500 ( a real steal even then) and his dad gave him his paid in full after he completed his second year of college.

I would love to meet a 2010 college kid with a new 5th gen. I am sure there maybe one but the point is you are right. I wish I still had that car. I got that car because there were a lot of new and old Camaro's in the late 70's and the owner had moved on. It was sitting with a dead alternator. I was driving within a couple of hours of getting it home. First gens were everywhere then. Now at the car shows I leave my thirdgen and go stare at my old 1969. Those cars were my youth as well. The first three gens for sure. Started to feel a little old by the time fourth gens came but then again I am 52.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.


I think the key is to get your car right mechanically and appearance wise. Keep it there. You have to stay the course.

I believe the value will come. Maybe not at a 60's level. But it will turn out to be respected. I hope I am around to see it. Lol,
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:46 AM   #29
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

i grew up with the 80's 3rd gen firebirds and camaros. to me they are the most beautiful cars that gm has ever made. wherever i go with mine people are constantly coming up to take a look at a 1980's relic that looks like it was just rolled off the factory line. i think the popularity of older cars be they from the 60' 70's 80' or 90's is more the condition it is in than it is the type of car it is.

when i was taking the wife to pick up her new 09 avalanche yesterday at the local gm dealer the owner of the dealership was walking around my formula giving her the thrice over even pearing under the bumpers. i doubt he does that for any of the new 2010 camaros that drive up...

people will still say what a piece of crap when they see 67 camaros taht look like a bucket of rust and the trunk held on by wire... its all about the condition the vehicle is in that makes people drool.


just because it is from the 60's doesnt equate with desirable if it looks and runs like crap. restore a 3rd gen to stock and and take care of it and people will drool over it just as much as they do 60's cars that are kept well.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:10 AM   #30
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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just because it is from the 60's doesnt equate with desirable if it looks and runs like crap. restore a 3rd gen to stock and and take care of it and people will drool over it just as much as they do 60's cars that are kept well.
This is sooo true! The generation as a whole gets its reputation from the condition of the examples that people see. Most 1st and 2nd gens now are restored so they have a good reputation. I've seen a lot more nice 3rd gens than rust bucket 3rd gens in the past few years and believe their reputation is on the up swing.
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:02 PM   #31
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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I am 49 and when I started driving in 1975 I bought many USED CARS and they were all cars like 69 Roadrunners & GTX, 71 Challenger, 70 Mach I, 69 Camaro, 73 Cuda, etc. I used and abused all of them, wrecked a couple, etc. Wish I had half of them.....lol But, I have to agree that in general 3rd Gens get NO respect in the car community and will be many years before they do. Sad, but true.
Completely agree. There is no "respect", while driving on the roads at least. Maybe cause right now mine isn't nice and shiney I would like to get a 1st and 2nd gen in my stable though, I need a bigger garage!
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:06 PM   #32
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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This is sooo true! The generation as a whole gets its reputation from the condition of the examples that people see. Most 1st and 2nd gens now are restored so they have a good reputation. I've seen a lot more nice 3rd gens than rust bucket 3rd gens in the past few years and believe their reputation is on the up swing.
i also concur with that. Ever since i started this thread ive gotten over the reason i started it. Mainly cuz i put more hours into my TA and it started up like a champ after the engine swap(besides my current issue of my TH350 not having mounting holes for the torque arm)

The more heart i put into it the more i love and appreciate it.
i still get ignorant friends that think its a piece of crap cuz the paint isnt new and i dont have sticker and high rise spoiler on it(dang ricers)
But yeah your car is only worth the love and time you put into it(sounds corny, i know)
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:49 AM   #33
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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The more heart i put into it the more i love and appreciate it.
i still get ignorant friends that think its a piece of crap cuz the paint isnt new and i dont have sticker and high rise spoiler on it(dang ricers)
But yeah your car is only worth the love and time you put into it(sounds corny, i know)
personally i dont own my firebird for what people will pay for it. its irrelevant to me as i am never going to sell it. so what its worth is a moot issue. to me the car is priceless and thats all that matters. im not a mechanic or interior specialist i can barely change the oil. i do what i can with it and often end up having to pay people to fix really big issues that are far beyound my feeble skills. it doesnt mean i dont love my car any less than folks who are capable of swapping engines and such. i wish i had the ability to do those things but it doesnt stop me from doing the personal things i can do when i can do em.

dont worry about ignorant people they are gonna be around where ever you go.

some of my fondest car memmories were of the old straight 6cyl 1975 ford granada that my grandmother drove and taught me to drive in.

my firebird needs the cracked spoiler repaired or replaced a little repair on a rust spot on the hatch trim around the glass and a good coat of paint. finding an original spoiler in excellent condition is a btch so i may have to search out a duplicate about the only thing im going to be able to do myself is fix the rust spot and if i flub that with repainting it wil have to be done by someone who knows how. *sigh*
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Old 09-02-2009, 01:26 AM   #34
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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I find these threads amusing...

Why do people care if their cars are desired by others? I drive a third gen Trans Am because I want to and am damn proud of my car. I wouldn't trade my car for any first, second, or fourth gen, and couldn't care less about how desirable our cars are. Another benefit of our cars being less popular to the masses is that I purchased my dream car for pennies while others have to shell out big money for their "desirable" cars. Who the hell are "they" to judge the worthiness of my car anyways...

So true, so true. Later.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:23 AM   #35
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

I think the reason why people put so much stock into what others think is their insecurities. We want to feel that our efforts are not in vain and we will be rewarded for what we have done. Whether it is fix up a car that once was destined for the crusher, or we have preserved a car from the elements. Either way we want to feel secure...

First I have to admit that there is no crystal ball that any one of us can look into and say yes or no third gens will be worth X in the future. Even the rare cars like Firehawks, TTA's, 1LE's and L98 Convertibles there is some doubt, nonetheless there is less doubt with those cars I listed, but still some.

Second, if you want something to be worth something some day, start with something that is worth something now, or at least look to collectors to see what they are collecting, or seeking. Case in point, I know that there are serious collectors that are snatching up TTA's Firehawks, 1LE's and L98 Convertibles. You have to ask yourself, were there thousands of those made, or tens of thousands made like that, or just a few hundred? If it is in the few hundred then you may have a keeper.

Third. Try not to get wrapped up into thinking that some rare option will pull a car over the edge. The rear window wiper for example I highly doubt will ever increase the value of any third gen, Nor would an AM radio, it may be rare, but you have to ask, who really cares about some of those things, there may be a reason why no one ordered it to start with. More or less, the piddly options are nice touches but none of them will make a 4 cyl worth more. Look for the big things first, Firehawk, TTA, 1LE, L98 Convertibles, FIRST then consider the little things like rear defog, power locks, windows, cruise, etc...

3.5 IMHO for collecting Forget color, I am not saying a car that was once red paint it yellow. What I am saying is any original color, whether it was blue, red, green purple, green or yellow, do not worry about the color and how rare it is. Sure there is some pull for certain colors like the Jamaica Yellow in 1992, beyond that if it is something you like then buy it for that reason, not because it is some rare color that no one really liked to start with.

To answer the original poster, 20 or 30 year from now. I would think that historically yes a third gen is a better than average yet good bet. Our oldest cars are only 27 years old, and are newest cars are only 17 year young.... With that said, let us go back into time and take a look at some cars for sale back in 1989 in Hemmings Motor news...

CAMARO's
1967 RS 60K miles, original 327 $11,000
1969 Pace car 350, Auto $13,500
1969 RS-SS CONVERTIBLE pace car, car show winner, $15,900
1967 RS/SS 350, Auto, missing SS hood, $1,500
1967 Convertible RS 350, Auto, $9995
1968 Z-28 $7500
1969 coupe 350 73K miles $6000
1967 RS, w/454 $3500
1970.5 Z28 RS $9500
1967 RS 327 Auto $3500
1972 all new sheetmetal and drivetrain $7000
1969 SS 350ci, A/C cruise, tilt, $6995
1968 SS 396/350, turbo 400, $12,900
1968 RS vert, matching numbers 64K $11,900

Pontiacs
1970 JUDGE GTO RAM AIR IV 4 speed $5500
1970 Trans Am Ram Air III $9500
1969 Trans Am Ram Air III documented $16,000
1969 Firebird Convertible 350, Auto $9500
1969 Firebird 400 4 speed nice $7450
1970.5 Trans Am R/A III $9450
1968 Firebird Sprint convertible, $7995
1969 GTO convertible $7200
1969 GTO original paint 400ci auto $4350

More or less we are almost exactly where the asking prices were for first gens were 20 years ago. The above numbers were asking prices for June 1989 in Hemmings motor news. You can not touch any of those cars for anywhere close to those prices today. You can say what you want, but the truth is I think we can and will only go up in value.

John
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:24 AM   #36
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

I guess it really all depends on how the condition of our cars that are well maintained for the future as to what there value will be. Right now there not worth crap. As far as location goes, my area your just lucky to find a nice third gen period. The only time i see a third gen is in the ghetto part of town, ragged out piece of crap, some ill admit i give ppl respect for, because they build really nice sleepers, ppl that live i the area had to learn to work on there own cars, so they know about to build up motors, they want to build a nasty little small block, but keep the appearance crappy for giggles once they win. I work for a parts store, and have seen some irocs come in, but they were nuthin but a piece of crap, or atleast the outside appearence, of coarse with the cracks all in the dash. Every time im at work people always ask my other employees whos trans am is that outside, and they always pull me aside to talk about it as far there opinion. Everytime i drive the car to whataburger or sonic i get people walking around my ta all the time. Because a true muscle car nut knows a nice looking old car when he sees one.

Side note what a really nice third gen went last yr as to when i picked up my 91, i paid 4500 for the car, it had beautiful paint, dual cat option, only 69k original miles 350 tpi, clean interior, accept the drivers side floor mat was in ugly condition, but 4500 is what the cash for clunker crap is going on right now you get on ur trade in. so i consider my car a steal for that price which was in prestine condition.

No our cars will never be as much as the 1st, 2nd gens, but i think our cars actually will have an advantage over the 4th gens. Only reason i see that, is because i you can only find nice 4th gens for sale at car lots these days. Theres way more 4th gens made and ppl that own them, and so 20 years down the road since the ppl have there ls1 powered cars i doubt they will get rid of them anytime soon. Which is why i think our cars will have an advantage as far as original/condition/ and how many are truely left.

I consider third gens the hardest and toughest gen because our cars have had to go through so much through out the years. But to me that makes them more desirable, and more of the generation to cheerish.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:47 PM   #37
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Actually there were about twice the number of 3rd gens made compared to the number of 4th gens made.

What makes a third gen unique over the 4th Gen is technically the 4th gens only offered two engines at any given time. Outside contractors, such as SLP, or ASC modified cars into Firehawks, Comp T/A's WS6, or SS models and increased HP on those cars... Overall they more or less had 4 engines total that they used in the 4th generation, the 3.4L V6 from 1993 - 1995 and the 3.8L from 1995 - 2002, And the V8 LT1 from 1993 to 1997 or LS1 from 1998 - 2002. There were some variations from year to year, but basically they were all the same as I have spelled out above.

The third gen on the other hand had on average 4 engines per year, and a total of 6 different V8's, an I4 (1982-1986), and about 4 V6 offerings, so in a sense you have to be more careful when choosing at a third gen. The base V8 engines available went from a 4bbl to a TBI, and the top engine went from the Cross-Fire to the L98 TPI. Then you add the Middle v8 which was available for just about every year except for 1982 and 1984. So there are a ton of choices, and making sure you get the right one can be challenging. You cant just look at a car and say that one is collectible and run with it. You have to actually do some research. All in All a 3rd gen collectible model will be more uncommon than a collectible 4th gen because of the many engine options. And the top engine offerings are more uncommon year for year.

Honestly this is one of the reasons why some die cast companies have avoided the 3rd gen. I contacted GMP and they more or less told me that because the engine options and the way the engine looked changed so often in the 80's that it makes it hard for them to decide which year to actually make. Greenlight actually got off their duff and did something for us (thank God for Greenlight) as I do not think we would have anything like what we do without them.

Think about it.

John
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Old 09-10-2009, 03:01 PM   #38
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

This is what I wanna say, and if I'm repeating someone's statement please forgive me since I skimmed through this.

Our thirdgens will be definitely worth something in the future. It may take a little longer than other classics, especially with the shaky state of the economy, but it will happen. Obviously, people won't care much about the plain-jane 4 cyls and 6 cyls. But a Trans Am, TTA, GTA, Firehawk, IROC, Z28, (maybe even Berlinetta or LT?), and any convertible will be definitely worth something. Naturally, those cars would have to be in decent shape. And I think that even some 6 cyls will be valuable in the future if they're REALLY clean and low mileage.

Case in point, my friend's dad has an '82 Firebird with the carbed 2.8 and 4 speed manual. He is the original owner (his first new car). This car has 34,000 miles and is almost IMMACULATE. Not a spot of rust anywhere, the car was kept in a garage its entire life. Only modifications are a free-flowing stainless steel exhaust with dual tips, CD player radio, and wheels (same age as the car!). As far as I know, no restorations, nothing. The only major flaw with it is the paint (along with a couple cracks in the dash), it's fading in some areas (apparently due to some "polyglycoat" coating they put on em back then that was supposed to preserve the body, any info on that would be great). But it's still pretty good looking. I really think that he could get a decent amount for it if he were to sell it, especially once the economy picks up again.

Right now, most of these cars are almost worthless (picked up my 91 T/A 'vert for $2800). But hey, 1st gens along with cuda's, challengers, GTOs, etc, were at the same place as our thirgens at one time! Our 3rd gens simply may not reach the same level of prestige as the cars mentioned above, simply because there are so many of them! But I'm very confident that they'll come quite close.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:03 AM   #39
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

You really can't compare our cars to other classics like the first or second gens because they will obviously be worth more than the third gen will ever be. And I say that because the older the car is, the more the value of them will go up. A good value 1st or 2nd gen will ALWAYS be worth more than a good value 3rd gen. BUT....the 1st gen IS and the 2nd gen is now starting to be worth a pretty penny SO, you figure the 3rd gen has it's time coming in the next 10 years or so.
I know where ever I drive, even to the gas station I have people asking me what year the car is....how many miles...what motor I have...what I plan to do with the car..IF I WANT TO SELL IT...or even offer me a dollar amount for it. The fact is....it depends on the seller, and the biggest factor of all is how old and rare it is. By option rarity and mileage mostly, condition plays a decent factor as well. I have a v6 91' Bird with Formula wheels and pre 91' spoiler...I have at least 2-3 people per month ask me at the gas station about my car. They will go up in value and popularity soon. Once I get it painted, I plan on putting it my cities monthly meet and see what I can pull. There are soooo many classic cars there it takes up the entire downtown area. See how much traffic I draw. I've seen a TTA there that I really want to buy.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:21 AM   #40
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Originally Posted by CharcoalBird View Post
You really can't compare our cars to other classics like the first or second gens because they will obviously be worth more than the third gen will ever be. And I say that because the older the car is, the more the value of them will go up. A good value 1st or 2nd gen will ALWAYS be worth more than a good value 3rd gen. BUT....the 1st gen IS and the 2nd gen is now starting to be worth a pretty penny SO, you figure the 3rd gen has it's time coming in the next 10 years or so.
I know where ever I drive, even to the gas station I have people asking me what year the car is....how many miles...what motor I have...what I plan to do with the car..IF I WANT TO SELL IT...or even offer me a dollar amount for it. The fact is....it depends on the seller, and the biggest factor of all is how old and rare it is. By option rarity and mileage mostly, condition plays a decent factor as well. I have a v6 91' Bird with Formula wheels and pre 91' spoiler...I have at least 2-3 people per month ask me at the gas station about my car. They will go up in value and popularity soon. Once I get it painted, I plan on putting it my cities monthly meet and see what I can pull. There are soooo many classic cars there it takes up the entire downtown area. See how much traffic I draw. I've seen a TTA there that I really want to buy.
I know what you mean, I havent even drivin mine yet and an older gentleman came to my house one day asking if i wanted to sell it. i got a kick out of that cuz my dad always calls it a peice of junk, but i don't see anybody coming up to our house asking if his cars are for sale after 10 years. haha it made my day. and i don't even live off a main road!
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Old 09-11-2009, 11:34 AM   #41
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

i love hearing stories like that...that's why i love keeping my car...it's not even the $ value i care for our thirdgens but more like the moral & sentimental value. My car means alot to me. It personifies who i am (at least in my mind) plus i love driving something that isn't as comman as a dodge caravan...ha! I treat her like as if it's a kid of mine (don't have kids though). I baby her, pamper her with car cleaning products and tell her car stories lol...j/king...

I find it an ego boost when someone approaches my car and would like to know more about it or says stuff like, "I remember when i owned one and there were ton of them on the road"...etc.
The last car show i entered, i simply was amazed how many people took the time to get a good look over my car and then read the binder of collected information i build for my car....few years ago people wouldn't think much of these cars. Heck, back then they barely even glance at the thing, but now i believe our cars are getting the recognition and respect they all deserve!
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:14 PM   #42
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

So basically well kept firebirds should be worth a pretty penny considering options and what not.
But what about a well kept firebird with different engine.aka my car.
Say i wanna sell it later in 20 yrs, i not too sure if people would be attracted to a straight carbed setup.
but i think that maybe if its kept in good shape then maybe i'll get my money's worth.
Although im very happy with my car now. Maybe i'll even leave it in my will for my unborn son...MAYBE
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:31 PM   #43
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

Like many of you, I've been a member of this board for a long, long time...almost 10 years. And since the early days back in '00, when I was a Sophomore at UMass, I've ALWAYS argued that these cars were going to go up...it was only a matter of when.

My father, the proud owner of a 7k mile '00 SS and a 6k mile '02 Formula, owns those cars because they remind him of his youth. He loves first gens, as those are the cars of his youth, but doesn't want to deal with the headaches of an old car. For me personally, I couldn't care less about 1st gens...seriously. I love the cars of MY youth, 3rd gens and 4th gens. And I'm already seeing cases where 3rd gens are selling for more money than "better" early 4th gens...

Just like 10 years ago, when late 2nd gens started to sell for more than early 3rd gens. I'm 29...a 3rd gen has pretty much been a part of my life since 1989...my mom had a new '89 RS I sold in '02...I later picked up my '91 in 2006. 3 1/2 years later, the restoration is ALMOST done. I drove it to the shop today to have a small hole in the driver's floorboard patched (found it when I gutted the interior to Dynamat it and put in new carpet) and have the t-top gaskets replaced.

Yes, I have over $12,000 tied up in a TBI 3rd gen. Ask me if I care...or if I care whether or not it'll be worth something someday. I know I didn't start with a desireable model...but at the end of the day, that $12,000-13,000 has gotten me a V8/stick/t-top/bright red third gen that looks and drives almost like new, has over $4k in stereo/exhaust/alarm/other bolt on mods, and looks absolutely gorgeous sitting on polished Torq Thrust IIs.

I had it out today for the first time this year...unfortunately, slow car sales has lead me to not have the cash to finish the inside as fast as I thought. But it reminded me of the impact this car has...this car might as well be a 5th gen with the amount of looks it gets. Its that pretty.

And to me, its what I've always wanted. If it makes ME happy, then what else am I supposed to care about?
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:41 PM   #44
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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This is what I wanna say, and if I'm repeating someone's statement please forgive me since I skimmed through this.

Our thirdgens will be definitely worth something in the future. It may take a little longer than other classics, especially with the shaky state of the economy, but it will happen. Obviously, people won't care much about the plain-jane 4 cyls and 6 cyls. But a Trans Am, TTA, GTA, Firehawk, IROC, Z28, (maybe even Berlinetta or LT?), and any convertible will be definitely worth something. Naturally, those cars would have to be in decent shape. And I think that even some 6 cyls will be valuable in the future if they're REALLY clean and low mileage.

Right now, most of these cars are almost worthless (picked up my 91 T/A 'vert for $2800). But hey, 1st gens along with cuda's, challengers, GTOs, etc, were at the same place as our thirgens at one time! Our 3rd gens simply may not reach the same level of prestige as the cars mentioned above, simply because there are so many of them! But I'm very confident that they'll come quite close.
Like most things the economy will go up and down, now is the time to buy as things are down, looking up. The economy would have recovered without any stimulus. Will our cars ever be worth more than a 1st gen? I guess it would depend on what cars you are comparing... If you compare a Firehawk to a 6 cyl 67 Camaro, then surely the Firehawk is worth 4 times of the 67 6 cyl.

John
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:09 PM   #45
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Like most things the economy will go up and down, now is the time to buy as things are down, looking up. The economy would have recovered without any stimulus. Will our cars ever be worth more than a 1st gen? I guess it would depend on what cars you are comparing... If you compare a Firehawk to a 6 cyl 67 Camaro, then surely the Firehawk is worth 4 times of the 67 6 cyl.

John
Of course! And the stimulus just dragged us further into this hole we're in. But let's not start a political ranting...
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:36 PM   #46
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

not trying to be political, just honest, sorry if I offended you. It is a matter of course that the economy has ups and downs. Where we go from here is what is mostly important. How does this effect 3rd gen history? Simply put the values of our car, or any car value is dependent upon the state of the economy at any given moment. When or if hyper inflation happens like so many are predicting, the "Dollar" values of our cars should in theory go up because the value of the dollar is lower. In reality the value of our cars in today's money is way lower than it was in 1982-1992 money even if the same dollar amount is attributed to them. It still stands that a car that was purchased in 1967 for $5000 and was sold today at $150,000, the person who originally purchased the car would have been far ahead to actually randomly invest the money into the stock market where they would have made more money and still be able to pay for the $150K and have some left over. Even in this economy there are programs like stop loss, but that is tit for tat.

Ultimately I remember when we had a $250 or lower cars section in our local paper, then it became $500 or less, Now I see many publications with $2000 or less... it is just the weakening of the dollar in respect to the value of the car as it pertains to what people require for basic transportation. One thing that we have going for us is many of our cars are becoming more than mere transportation as they do not make good winter beaters for us northerners, so the collectors are snatching up nice examples for their collections. You can buy many nice third gens for around $5000 easily, some are more, the really nice ones at least.

John
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:53 PM   #47
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

3rd gens are going to come up in value, the only question is when. My dad remembers when the muscle cars of the 60's and 70's were common and worthless, and the only people you could give them away to were teenagers. He wishes he never sold his mint '68 396 RS/SS or '70 Chevelle SS for next to nothing before I was even born. I'm just old enough to remember when the 2nd gen fbody's were still considered worthless ****** mobiles, and now that generation is getting its chance in the limelight and collectors are paying good coin for well kept examples. History will repeat itself for the 3rd gens too, just be patient and take care of your rides.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:05 PM   #48
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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3rd gens are going to come up in value, the only question is when. My dad remembers when the muscle cars of the 60's and 70's were common and worthless, and the only people you could give them away to were teenagers. He wishes he never sold his mint '68 396 RS/SS or '70 Chevelle SS for next to nothing before I was even born. I'm just old enough to remember when the 2nd gen fbody's were still considered worthless ****** mobiles, and now that generation is getting its chance in the limelight and collectors are paying good coin for well kept examples. History will repeat itself for the 3rd gens too, just be patient and take care of your rides.
Well Said
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:30 PM   #49
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

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Originally Posted by okfoz View Post
not trying to be political, just honest, sorry if I offended you. It is a matter of course that the economy has ups and downs. Where we go from here is what is mostly important. How does this effect 3rd gen history? Simply put the values of our car, or any car value is dependent upon the state of the economy at any given moment. When or if hyper inflation happens like so many are predicting, the "Dollar" values of our cars should in theory go up because the value of the dollar is lower. In reality the value of our cars in today's money is way lower than it was in 1982-1992 money even if the same dollar amount is attributed to them. It still stands that a car that was purchased in 1967 for $5000 and was sold today at $150,000, the person who originally purchased the car would have been far ahead to actually randomly invest the money into the stock market where they would have made more money and still be able to pay for the $150K and have some left over. Even in this economy there are programs like stop loss, but that is tit for tat.

Ultimately I remember when we had a $250 or lower cars section in our local paper, then it became $500 or less, Now I see many publications with $2000 or less... it is just the weakening of the dollar in respect to the value of the car as it pertains to what people require for basic transportation. One thing that we have going for us is many of our cars are becoming more than mere transportation as they do not make good winter beaters for us northerners, so the collectors are snatching up nice examples for their collections. You can buy many nice third gens for around $5000 easily, some are more, the really nice ones at least.

John
Oh no of course not, I'm not offended at all. If totally necessary I CAN start a political ranting! And I agree with you 100% about the porkulus, er, stimulus not helping us.
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Old 09-12-2009, 10:08 PM   #50
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Re: The fate of our third gen firebirds.

I think everyone is missing an important point here. There are a number of members who love the Thirdgen and want to preserve it. There are also those who are looking to restore and sell.

I have never met anyone (other than a few professional restorer's/modifier's) who made any money at it.

So, the ultimate question is who do you want to be? I had a young fellow who said my GTA was sweet. He wanted to buy one of my cars. When I said my 1984 Trans Am (Collector's Status eligible - even has the original radio) was potentially for sale, he told me about a 454 CI Drag Racer build. My answer, the car is not for sale and I'll continue the restoration. I would hate to have a Collector's Car stripped for a racer!

I currently have 4 Thirdgens and 1 Fourthgen. Not planning to get rid of any.
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