GTA50

but does anyone have a copy of the magazine article (I think it was Motor Trend or perhaps Car Craft) and the (1983 I think) production showings at Lime Rock?

I recall that Chevy showed up with a yellow Z28 that shattered the 5.0L Mustang lap time by about 3 seconds. Later in the pits, the Chevy engineers popped the hood to show a 454 bored out to 596.

So, tell me I'm not having a dream.......and if I am, I have a 1980 GMC with a 454/4-speed 4:10 rear end that could make one heck () of a sleeper out of my '84 T/A.

Rolling Thunder

Its a long shot and unfortunately i don't have the older magazine (a bit before my time) but when i was considering swapping in a big block in my reasurch I came across a lot of big block camaro projects in the earlier third gen years. GM built 3 that i know of as prototypes (454s). I had heard that hot rod magazine did a big block camaro project in 82 or 83 and also car craft in 82. I took a quick look at the covers of back order magazines for car craft and sure enough in the September of 82 issue there were 2 partially yellow camaro right on the cover. Perhaps one was their big block project car? I could be completely mistaken but perhaps you could take a look and see if it looks familiar?


http://graphic-server.com/cgi-bin/us...CARC198209.JPG

L695speed

I have a whole host of old mags, as I got them for free from my college library as they were doubles. They were all Motor Trends. However I don't think there was anything about a big block camaro til they tested one in a later issue. I can check, I believe the big block one I'm thinking of was red and was tested with the twin turbo TA, and a camaro with a six speed, among other factory mules.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello GTA50!!

I found one in "Chevy High Performance" magazine a 1992 issue, the Camaro was Red with a 510 CID Chevy Big Block!! 525 HP, and more than 550 lb ft of torque!! ZF 6 speed, and a Dana 44 3:31 geared rear with disc brakes!!! 197 Mph!!!

It's not the one that I was thinking about, but it's got the big block chevy shoe horned into it!!!

I'll keep searching for the other one, which was white with a T-56 6 speed!!!

The dream is only $$$$$.$$ away!!!!

L695speed

I know where I can find the article about the car you are talking about. The white camaro with 16 or 17 inch black diamond spokes and black heritage stripes. It was a proposal for the Heritage edition camaro that was shot down due to costs. It was indeed equipped with a T-56. As for the red camaro you are talking about I don't think you and I are thinking of the same car. The 454 car I am thinking about was red with a carb 454 and an automatic. In fact, I've got photos of both cars I believe together side by side catching air off of a small rise. I will have to find both articles I'm thinking about and scan them and send them to JT. That will be highly desireable reading material for people who like the prototypes.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The black and white Heritage car had a 6 speed, but it wasn't a T56. It was a ZF6 out of a Corvette, modified to accept the Camaro hydraulic clutch setup. It also wasn't a big block, just a beefed up 350TPI. There were two of them that got a lot of print. One had a rear spoiler, and the other didn't. It could have been the same car and they added the spoiler after the first round of pictures. The one with the spoiler went on to have a LT1 swap, and then was repainted bright yellow and got a RamJet swap.

L695speed

I know the black and white one wasn't a big block, the big block car I'm referring to is a red one that I've seen tested alongside the white one. Sorry for the confusion. I'm not sure but I think the white one still exists in its original form. Anyway, I'll see if I can get those two articles. There was more than one camaro in the one article and the other one had the ZF6 car, the big block car and the twin turbo TA.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello L695speed!!

The Heritage Edition Camaro was equiped with a ZF-6speed from the Corvette, but it had a small block in it, re-read the article last night.......late last night!! The Red Camaro that your talking about, is not the same one that I posted about last night!! The Red Camaro that I was talking about, had a hand made TPI set up, and a hand built air snorkel running the width of the engine bay, but only about 3 inches deep!!

The white one was in, IIRC a Car Craft Magazine with a purple cover showing a White Camaro!! It had a Borg-Warner T-56, a Chevy Big Block 454, and it was made to look like a factory install, IIRC they were trying to get GM/Chevy to make "it" the fourth gen, since the pony car horsepower wars were starting again, and there hadn't been a Big Block in a Camaro since 1972, IIRC!!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Better go read it again. I'll say it again... The few Heritage cars that were built used the ZF6, just like the Firehawks. Even after painting the car yellow and stuffing a RamJet small block crate engine under the hood, the car still had the ZF6.

The T56 was developed for the 92 Viper and borrowed by GM for the 93 Fbody. It didn't even exist in 1991 when GM was planning the special limited edition Heritage cars. The only transmissions with more then 5 gears that GM had to choose from were the Nash 4+3 (garbage) and the ZF6 out of the Corvette.

I could go dig the scanner out of the closet and dig through my archives, but you guys can take my word for it, or just read the article from GM High Tech Performance online.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ure/index.html

If you've got a good book store near by, you can read a lot about the Heritage cars in "The Best of Hot Rod Magazine - Volume 3: Camaro Performance 1989-1996". http://www.amazon.com/Best-Hot-Rod-M...dp/1935231022/
Pages 39-40 show the Yellow ramjet car (no spoiler, 5 spoke Z28 wheels, no stripes) in it's previous life with a LT1 and still the ZF6.
Pages 68-70 show one of the Heritage cars (probably a different car since it has the standard 3pc spoiler, but again no stripes, and standard 5 spoke 16" Z28 wheels) with the worked up 350TPI, and the ZF6. Funny the article even says the car was planned to have the black GTA style wheels.

Another fist-full of pics of the Heritage car appear in the "Camaro Performance Handbook (Performance modifications for 1982-1992 Camaros)".
http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Ha.../dp/1557880573
Page 59 shows the custom siamesed runners, Corvette valve covers, and custom exhaust. Pages 100 & 101 again show the publicity Heritage car, but this time with a 3pc rear spoiler, black heritage stripes, and black GTA wheels. Again, the ZF6 is pictured. While you're at it, pages 12 & 13 have pictures of big blocks shoe-horned into Camaros. One is carbed, and the other is fuel injected with a SLP Firehawk cold air intake.

It's not even hard to visually see the difference between the T56 and the ZF6. The ZF6 doesn't have a torque arm mount, and the hydraulics are relocated, not to mention the case is entirely different. It made sense for GM to use the ZF6, beyond the fact that it was all they had, SLP had already gone through the trouble to make the crossmembers and the steel bulge stamping for the floor so it'd clear the transmission.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Is the red big block car the 92 Z28 with paint matched rear window louvers and Ronal R15's? It's the one on the cover of "How to Tune & Modify Your Camaro 1982-1998". http://www.amazon.com/Tune-Modify-Yo.../dp/076030436X There are a couple pics of the fuel injected big block engine compartment, and the exterior scattered in the book, and it looks to have a SLP Firehawk style cold air intake, and a hydraulic clutch, but no clue what transmission was in it.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello Drew!!

Yes, that would be the car!! It has, according to Chevy High Performance magazine October 1992 issue page 20, a ZF 6-Speed, comes complete with A/C!! The induction system is a custom fab, the base being a Holley tunnel ram cut down, and modified to hold eight Rochester injectors!! Also has a 58mm Accel throttle body rated at a 1000 cfm, LB9 distributor, and coil!! Dana 44 rear with a 3.54 gear set, aluminium drive shaft, and the air duct was a custom fabrication also!!

The engine is based on a Gen V four bolt 502 marine-block, bored out to 4.5 inches, 9.95:1 compression ratio, putting out, 525 HP, and 560 Lbs ft of torque!!

By the way I fixed my post above, ref the ZF 6 speed vice the T-56 6 speed in the Heritage Camaro, I was caught up in the moment, and misquoted the article!!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I have a similar magazine from the early 90's which discusses GM's toy box, one which included a prototype '89 Camaro Red w/grey ground effects, and it was GM's answer to another project of theirs; the '89 Corvette ZR2 (454-BBC, w/prototype HSR) that they called "Big Doggie". The Camaro ran a carbed 454-BBC, and was given the name "Angry Poodle" because it was about a half of a second slower in the 1/4....

L695speed

Considering its been 20 years and the cars no doubt have gone through some changes all of us could be right, at different times. I am probably going to be snowed in for the next couple days. So I'll see if I can find those articles and at least post them up here.

As for the ZR2 Big Dog Corvette, I've got that test article too. I guess everyone was caught up in the HP race when they came out of the 80s and everyone was throwing outrageous ideas at production possibilities.

L695speed

Ok guys, I found one of them. Turns out my memory might have been fuzzy. And this contradicts a certain sticky (at least in a way). The factory prototype test I found was a pair of carb camaros, and the twin turbo TA.

One camaro was red with silver gfx an RS that had a 454 with an automatic. Had 400 HP and 420 Ft Lbs of torque. Did 0-60 in 5.5 and the 1/4 in 14 flat at 102 mph.

The other camaro was a white Z28 with the black diamond spoke TA rims, Had a 350 carbed with a L69 style aircleaner, backed by a 5 speed. 345 HP and 380 ft lbs of torque. Did 0-60 in 5.2 and the 1/4 in 13.7 at 103.3 mph.
(one could argue that the factory did indeed make a 350 with a manual there)

Finally the Twin Turbo TA. 640 HP 765 ft lbs of torque, twin turbo 350 backed by a ZF6 did 0-60 in 4.6 and the 1/4 in 12.7 at 116.9 mph.

that test I found was in the January 91 issue of Motor Trend. They said the Twin Turbo TA was almost the same car they drove in a top speed test a couple years ago. Not sure if they meant the 350 GTA that was stock, and they meant that the motor is basically the same as well as the car.

I just found the other Test I was thinking of. May 92 issue of Motor Trend Top Secret Chevys issue. They had the 6 speed Heritage camaro proposal, that was a White RS with black heritage stripes and black diamond spokes. It used a ZF6 trans (6 speed stick) and a 270 HP 350 Said that everything was ready for production and were going to start when the sales dept clamped down on it due to its 28K price tag. If you think about it the TTA sold for that much and it sold out so they probably could have done it.

Also the same 454 camaro as the test mentioned above was featured with the Big Doggie ZR2 vette in the same issue. It said they indeed did call it the angry poodle. Its carb was out of calibration and it was running way rich but it still pulled through the traps at 100 mph when they tested it again.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Thanks for filling in the blanks. I haven't read much about that car (in 92 I was in 8th grade and not really interested in cars) and never really heard much about the specifics. It'd be nice to know about all the in-house GM projects. Aside from the occasional reprinted article they tend to slip into obscurity.

It wouldn't surprise me too much to find out that one or more of the promo Heritage cars was actually an earlier project platform that GM doctored to look like the present model (at the time).

L695speed, is the twin turbo T/A the Firefox? A medium gray metallic 91 or 92 Trans Am with aftermarket diamond spoke wheels, Corvette independent suspension, and so on?

L695speed

I don't think so. There is enough shared between the two but I don't think they are the same car. The Firefox was tested in the Dec 91 issue of Motor Trend and it was similar but unless they swapped the motor and gave it a complete color change twice they can't be the same car. My evidence...the Twin Turbo car was sold at B-J a year or so ago. That combined with the fact that the Firefox was tested after the Twin Turbo car show that it has to be a different car. The Firefox was an idea for the 20th anniversary TA. Obviously the TTA took its place. I posted an article about the Firefox. its should be in the Media section. There is a chance that the Firefox and the Heritage proposal camaro still exist, though no one really knows. If the Twin Turbo TA was still in existence as of a year ago then the others are probably still around as well. In some random warehouse owned by GM.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Hmm...

From the GTA Source Page FAQ... http://www.gtasourcepage.com/GTAFAQ.html

There's some more talk of twin turbocharged Firebirds on Skulte's website.
http://www.skulte.com/other.html

It's unfortunate how much little of these cars have been documented here. Plenty of people know they existed, but there's a shortage of real info.

L695speed

Yea that sounds about right. They made two firefoxes and the blue Twin Turbo car. I'm not sure if any of the Firefoxes still exist other than the twin turbo one. But never say never, after all they still find Motorama show cars in Junkyards...at least a few years ago.

Guest

I remember the Big Doggie and the Angry Poodle and the red '92 w/ the 509. I'm trying to find online copies of the original features on all 3.
Big Doggie first appeared in C&D, IIRC, with part numbers ( now useless ) and descriptions of the original application for every part, all buried in the text of the article. And at the time it was an orange '86 convertible with the removable hardtop option.
Angry Poodle later made a few cameo appearances in Hot Rod, but it started as an '88 Sport Coupe, and it (or an exact copy) ended up at Gale Banks'.