Jim Berry

The first nameplate appeared in 1900. As of 01 Nov 2010, "Pontiac" is no more. A victim of poor leadership and lackluster innovation beginning in the early eighties. After an inspiring 1950's and exciting 1960's leading the way with the GTO and Firebird. Pontiac limped through the mid-seventies. Not even the Solstice could save the line. The long, lingering final act of Pontiac final came to an end, over the weekend, when dealers sold off the last new cars bearing the once formidable Pontiac logo and General Motors let its franchise agreement with the brand’s final remaining dealers expire.

The old logo, a line drawing profile of Chief Pontiac can still be found on some old dealerships, including one near downtown Nashville. But most retailers, desperate to rebuild their businesses, are showing little interest in sentimentality. They’re tossing the signs and sales literature and moving on, many of them signing up with the foreign brands that helped drive Pontiac into the history books.

Grab all the memorabilia that you can. Maybe someday it will return. Until then, scour the junkyards and aftermarket vendors for your parts.

Jim Berry.

BigBadGTA

Yup I heard about it this morning, so I went and took a photo of my GTA in front of the Pontiac dealer here in vegas before its gone. Really sad! I wish I could have seen my car new on the dealer lot, I wish I could have bought it new lol...

Blew-By-You

I don't know if I'd say 'lingering'. It really was too bad since Pontiac did have some new, promising contenders like the G8 (which SLP felt worthy to make one last Firehawk: http://wot.motortrend.com/6439658/af...ame/index.html ) and plans for the reborn 'El Camino' were also well underway before getting axed.

1988CamaroSC

iTrader: (2)

good, maybe my car will be worth more. haha

grassyflats

america is disappearing

iroc stangs

Dude, with a car as clean looking as that, who gives a crap if you bought it new! It looks like she was in storage for 20 something years!

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

It all boils down to good 'ol greed. I don't know about the majority of you, but I can't easily plunk down $35+ on a new T/A (in 2002), or like $40k on a new G8 GXP.

It seems that GM has lost touch with the people they supposedly want to sell cars to.

I'm sorry, I'm an enthusiast, but I simply am not going to settle on a G5 if I wanted a G8. I'll wait until I can find a clean used one before I go out and buy some POS re badged Cavalier (Yes, the G8 is a re badged Holden, but). The whole mentality of "got something for everyone" should be rethought to say "got something for every tax bracket".

I'm sad to see Pontiac go, as I really think they were rebuilding steam, but when you've got idiots at the helm over at GM, bad things are gonna happen.

I'm sad to say that I don't think I'll be buying a new (or even used 2008+) GM anytime soon... I still can't stomach the thought of a Ford right now, but.....

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I think GM (and the other 2 makes) have forgot that back in the day a guy (or gal) could make min wage and still go buy a very nice muscle car.
Try doing that now. No way in hell you could.. No wonder sales dried up.
Well there is more than just this one reason....

Blew-By-You

Well, Pontiac was usually a 'higher class' Chevy and that seemed to be the order of things and was reflected in the Firebird vs. Camaro. I mean look at the engine choices in the debut generations and early 2nd gens! Pontiacs were always higher priced but also higher stacked. The amount of gadgets and amenities was always greater in Pontiacs (look at GTAs and Z28s or Bonnevilles and Impalas). I'm not saying the build quality was great but you did get more car.

There is no comparison between a G5 and G8 and the G8 GT (starting price under $30k) was a bargain considering the class of car it was designed to take on (BMW 3 series, Benz, Lexus..) for a fraction of their costs. It is a testament (and a bit frustrating) that low mile '09 and even '08 G8s still have near new MSRP. I was sad to see the Ponchos go but the huge Chinese market for Buicks, GM couldn't ignore.

Camaro305SB

Wow I thought this happened months ago. The reason is Pontiac didn't make enough PROFIT. Not about cars sold, service, customer service scores. Its about PROFIT. Thats why Saturn went under instead of Buick. Saturns outsold Buicks by quite a bit, but Buick ended up making more profits.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

R.I.P. Pontiac, you will be missed.

xch3no2

I feel like part of me died...

scottmoyer

This isn't tech related so I will be locking it. Just an FYI on some things that you guys are missing when comparing today's car prices with the late 60s. In the late 60s, you didn't have a cell phone with a huge monthly data plan. You also didn't have the monthly internet bill. Without the internet, you didn't have that $1k computer that you are currently using. TV was limited to local channels over an antennae, not huge monthly cable/satellite bills. Now throw in the politics of today and we have more taxes in 2010 than we did in 1968. Look it up and you'll be surprised at the taxes we pay today that weren't even in existence then. Because the household had 1 TV, you didn't have the cost of the game console and the games that get played at $50+ each. Health insurance and home owners insurance were considerably less back then compared to todays premiums. Then lets look at the products you buy. A refrigerator, water heater, washer/dryer, etc would last 10-15 years, unlike todays that last 3-5.

There are many reasons we can't afford a new car today and it isn't all the manufacturers fault. Eliminate the cable bill, Internet, cell phone, video games, etc and you would have an extra few hundred a month in your pocket!

scottmoyer

Reopened by request. Please keep it civil and on topic.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

It's sad to see a once great marque disappear but it's the way it's supposed to be. If you can't make a profit by making what customers want to buy at an acceptable price you should go out of business. GM in total should have gone out of business or declared bankruptcy. Like it or not Ford is making a profit without help.

DIRTY JERZY

GM just shot itself in the foot again. I will never buy a new gm.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

G'night Pontiac.

It's been a fun cruise.......

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

Well done "New" GM

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

I didn't like the new lineup, but Pontiac had the best legacy in my eyes.
...d*** GM and d*** everyone that made it so hard for GM.

scottmoyer

You guys are being really hard on GM here. Pontiac and Saturn were forced out by the Gov't Motors, not General Motors. Also, please remember that Ford is not perfect in all of this. They were on the edge of bankruptcy in 2006, so they restructured during a good economy. GM and Chrysler didn't need to restructure then (well, they did, but not because of finances). They needed to restructure during a bad economy when the banking industry, housing, jobs, etc all went down the tubes. They were forced to restructure during a rougher time. I've also hear that Ford is not making profits yet since their restructure! Unfortunately, Saturn, Pontiac and Hummer were forced to go away.

tavert91

iTrader: (1)

Pontiacs have been in my family since before I was born. I can still remember riding (bouncing) around in the back of our 1955 Safari wagon and my older brother loves to tell people how our mom backed into someone in her '48 when HE hit the gas at age 4. There was always a pontiac (and sometimes 3 or 4) in our driveway and I expect there will always be. With a little luck, my '91 will outlast me; its been a fun car for almost 20 years. My daugther has already informed me it is hers when I go the grave - Goodbye Pontiac, see you on the other side.

okfoz

lets do a little history:
in 2000 there was the makings of a recession things were not doing as well as we all would like to believe.
2001 WTC Terrorist Attacks By you know who.
2003 Oldsmobile was dropped (rumors of Buick and Pontiac closing were on the table)
2004 - 2006 Economy improves slightly
2007 Something happened in the Govt (will not go political)
2008 Housing bubble crashes, drags down the economy
2009 Pontiac & Saturn dropped as a means to restructure GM. Roger Pensky offers to buy the brands to start his own car companies, only to be rejected in the end. GM states that they may revive the brand in the future, but nothing on the table at this time. On a Side note: Chrysler is literally given to the Italian company Fiat so that Chrysler could "Get technology for building small cars." GM is bailed out by the government and the Unions are paid off before the stockholders, who actually invested in the company.
2010 Unemployment is "higher than expected: and the economy is still not rebounding after keynesian Policies are implemented in 08 & 09...


If I got any of this wrong let me know.

TheJoeY88

iTrader: (2)

Fiat is Italian

Jason E

There's a couple significant issues with the above thread...

1) Chrysler was not GIVEN to Fiat. Not by any stretch. Fiat was awarded a 20% stake in Chrysler as a reward for alining itself with Chrysler, and sharing technology Chrysler sorely needs after years of neglect by Daimler and later, the venture capital firm that owned them, hoping for a quick flip. Fiat will own 35% of Chrysler by next year, again, for sharing its immense technology in small cars with high MPG that Chrysler is accessing for no charge. If Fiat wants any more of Chrysler, it has to buy it. Chrysler is already turning a profit, and sales this monthy were up almost 40%...higher than anyone else.

2) Ford HAS turned a significant profit this year! Over $2 billion even before the third quarter results that are due any day now! They are beating everyone's expectations.

3) There was nothing unfortunate about having Saturn and Hummer go away. Those brands sucked resources away from other brands, like our beloved Pontiac, that they could've used for more advertising, better products etc. GM did not need 8 brands, and is now selling more cars with its remaining 4 brands because the resources are spread less thin!

For what its worth, I'm a die-hard Pontiac fan...always have been, always will be. I've taken the death of Pontiac harder than anyone I know. Aside from the 2 Grand Ams, 2 Grand Prixs (own an '04 GTP now) and 2 Firebirds I've owned (own my 86 TA now), I also sold Pontiacs for 6 years and grew up with parents that owned assorted Grand Ams and Grand Prixs. I always loved the products...but even I admit in later years the brand lost focus. The Solstice and GTO were never a good replacement for a modern Firebird, the G6 was too bland, the Grand Prix was poorly re-designed, the G8 was too little, too late...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Pontiac stopped building OUR cars in 1992, who cares? Seriously, this is off topic and it's getting further off topic, and political. Do we all need to complain about the economy and the loss of a company that's largely irrelevant?

LTL_DMON

iTrader: (1)

A tribute to Pontiac....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3t_KvfP5CQ

cjvdbeek

Not sure how a discussion on the history and demise of the manufacturer of one of the cars that this site is dedicated to can be off topic when it is posted in the "HISTORY" section on this board.

Jim Berry

Nice youtube video for the end.

I think Henleys' song "Boys of Summer" was right on the money.

Jim.

1988CamaroSC

iTrader: (2)

i used to be a die hard gm guy all the way, until 06-08 when i noticed the quality of the gm vehicles depleating. i love my 3rd gens and always will, but once i get this POS cobalt out of my driveway i will never own another gm again, (minus my 88 bird of course) my trucks went from chev to dodge, my ram has been a hell of alot better to me than any silverado ever did....and when the cobalt eats it, likely soon as its got 42k, 2008, and already starting to fall apart (GO GM!!!) it will be replaced by a ford or dodge hands down.. fords got the car market, dodge and ford share the good truck market, the new silvys arent tough, built for a good ride and aiming at car like characteristics. its a truck people!!!!!! its not made to haul babies and groceries. new silvys are JUNK

1988CamaroSC

iTrader: (2)

nice vid tho....sad to see it go for sure

scottmoyer

My 2006 Silverado Z71 is running great at 100k miles with never an issue. My 2003 Monte Carlo SS had it's first failure a month ago when the lower radiator elbow cracked. Again, no other issues. GM products are great when you buy a real one. The Cobalt is the bottom of the barrel and uses the cheapest parts. That's why it's a cheap car! I've seen $80k 2010 Mercedes with non matching plastics between the door panel and dash. On the driver side, I could fit my little finger between the door and dash with the door closed, while the passenger side was tight. I also have seen fuel tanks on BMWs that need replacing at a cost of $6k. Ford and Chrysler have their issues also. No one manufacturer is perfect. I also personally know of someone that bought a new Ford truck and lemon law'd the thing. He bought a Chevy and loves it. He was a Ford guy.

GM products are well built as are Ford's and Chrysler. They all have their flaws. If you like their products better, go buy their product. No sense in bashing the manufacturer of the cars this website focuses on.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If i remember correctly the fuel prices shot up like a **** (well over a year or so b4) causing the housing bubble burst.
I really think thats what caused the major probs we have now. D*** greedy fuel companies.
Remember it being over 4 bucks 4 a gallon? WTF?
Its funny how the gov'ment wants to raise the MPG avg to save fuel (and thats fine an dandy) but the gas companies just raise the price to cover their so called "lose" of profit from less sales volume. We just end up paying more either way..
bottom line... the gov'ment telling buisness how run their companys is very bad, they cant even keep their own house strait.

back on topic..
Im going to miss my fav brand Pontiac.
As long as I have my garage and tools I'll always drive my "old" PONTIACS...

JimmyDavidson

I'm sure Pontiac will be back sometime in the future. Same as Camaros died in 2002, and the z28 as well, the Camaros came back and are getting good rep. The z28 will make another appearance as well. It's all a marketing trick(probably not the same case for Buick and Olds but we'll see) Pontiac had its fair share of fans and GM knows that. They just need to pull the plug for a little while and come up with a new gameplan or just let the want for a new pontiac vehicle grow and then bring it back, so people go running to it(same as the Camaro) Strategy.

I understand where you're coming from. The quality, of all cars even dodge and ford, is going downhill, not just GM. Most vehicles are getting larger and bloated. Similar to 57 Chevy's except new cars are make of cheap plastic and fiberglass. Cars aren't built for quality anymore, they're almost like disposable cameras. Buy one, use it, throw it away. It probably has to do with the economy(taxes and fees and free money for the govt to use) I'd like to have seen the govt give us the money directly so we could spend on products and employers could give their employees paychecks and hire more to compensate. But they skipped us and gave companies money and expect them to not pocket the money but instead use it to pay their employees. I don't know, but I guess this isn't the place to rant about others' poor decisions and greed heh.

Anyway, have no fear, Pontiac will take its place beside Chevy sometime in the future, they haven't sold the Pontiac brand so it's not gonna be the last we see.

scottmoyer

ok, I don't see this thread improving so before it gets locked, I need to set the record straight.

The gas prices did increase, but not because of "greedy" oil companies. Oil was put on the stock market as a commodity. Speculators speculated that prices of oil were going to increase. Because of that, prices did increase! People follow the "fear" that the speculators predict and create the inflated prices by creating a huge demand. Guess who profits? The investors who are also called speculators use this tactic to make more money at the expense of the rest of us.

Secondly, the Camaro did not go away as a marketing ploy by GM to create a desire for the car. The Camaro went away because of gov't regulation. The 2003 cars had a requirement that the 4th gen couldn't meet. GM agreed many years before that that if they were to ever close the plant in Canada, the car line had to be shut down for 5 years. The bean counters in Detroit agreed to that not knowing that they would actually close the plant. To meet the 2003 safety standards, they would need to retool the plant for a new car. It's cheaper to build a new plant than it is to retool. GM closed the plant and had to shut down the car line at the plant. It's amazing how the Camaro was announced to return in 2006, five years after they announced it's demise. It was all politics, not marketing.

The Z28 will make a comeback, but again, not because of marketing. The demand on the new car was so high, that Chevrolet released the SS with all of the performance goodies. Now they are trying to top that with the return of the Z28. Chevrolet believes the Z28 is the top dog so the car needs to be reflective of that. They had some gov't restrictions in the beginning, so they delayed the Z and the SS has all the goodies right now.

As for the cheapness of the cars, again you can blame the government. They keep requiring additional safety features and electronics which adds weight. More weight and higher CAFE standards for fuel mean lighter materials to get better fuel economy. Also because of all the requirements, to keep the costs down, cheaper products are used. We couldn't afford a new car today if they continued to use some of the products they used to use.

Sorry this was so long, but some people are spouting off with all the wrong information. It's unfortunate, but new requirements cost money and all of the suppliers costs get passed on to the buyer. Think of how many buyers are involved in car manufacturing before you!

deadbird

it's amazing and a shame that, the more available and easier to access information becomes, the dumber people get (meant in addition to scott's quote).

stealthroc89

Its better to see pontiac go than see them pushing electric cars. Plus it's not like they were selling a new T/A so no biggie. There are no real cars made anymore, they're full of all kinds of creature comforts to fit everyone. "My new Camaro doesn't have a MP3 jack" (I know it does but...) who cares its a freaking Camaro!! We don't have cup holders, gps, heated seats and we're happy with that, maybe not the cup holders lol. If they just went back to selling cars and not rolling computers, they might be able to turn a profit. At the end of the day its just a car, thats what they need to sell.

Skyset

So you're implying that GM isn't selling that many Camaros because it has too many features? Because of it's cupholders, auxiliary input, nav, etc? Lol.

This is 2010. Not 1982...People like fancy interiors and gadgets, regardless of whether it's a muscle car or not. Remember back then, Camaros had all the latest gadgets too. I mean hell, the GTAs and Berlinettas even had digital dashes...How common was that in any entry level corolla back then? If I'm going to drop $30,000+ on a new Camaro SS, I sure as hell want the interior to be nice with a lot of features. This isn't 1982 anymore.

Pab's

iTrader: (2)

well this sucks but It was expected when general motors became gov't motors

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

[QUOTE=scottmoyer;4726137]ok, I don't see this thread improving so before it gets locked, I need to set the record straight.

The gas prices did increase, but not because of "greedy" oil companies. Oil was put on the stock market as a commodity. Speculators speculated that prices of oil were going to increase. Because of that, prices did increase! People follow the "fear" that the speculators predict and create the inflated prices by creating a huge demand. Guess who profits? The investors who are also called speculators use this tactic to make more money at the expense of the rest of us.
QUOTE]

Sorry, I over simplified my "greedy oil companies statement"....
There is waaaay more to this than Id ever want to type! When prices went up ,because of it being changed to a commidty, (which was a bad move for us) unless your a"investor/ politician" an wana make major money by doing nothing, Our useage dropped BIG time and we had/have a major surplus because we used less and price still went to over 4 bux a gallon! they were making record profits while helping put this country in the toilet!
Arn't other developing countries are using more than us now anyway? Didnt we used to get a volume discount? lol guess we dont now, our VD musta went to japan an china along with our jobs!
Im def not arguing with ya but I do tend to over simplify things
So no matter what we say or do investers and oil companies will continue to make money.. no matter how much they spill!
Im sorry i wildly ramble, back on topic!

And I still dont have my new 2011 Trans Am vert that looks like a 69

I'll miss ya
PONTIAC R.I.P.

stealthroc89

Scottmoyor spoke about the safety regulations and epa standards driving up cost, not the gimmicks. Digital dash? Gimmick. No, I don't remember the 80s, too young, but it looks like we're going through a relapse, so I'll get to enjoy it the 2nd time around. *******, lol.....

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Everyone loves non-technical threads... But that doesn't change the fact that it's a non-technical thread and really doesn't have a place on this forum.

Skyset

Good way to end this thread.

Guest

"I'm sure Pontiac will be back sometime in the future."

Yes, absolutely. Right along with Oldsmobile (remember those?) and Elvis.

Gm is just trimming the fat to stay alive. Buick is next.

okfoz

Unless things have changed, Buick is (was) the best selling brand in China, yes China, its like some sort of status symbol. With that said, if they drop Buick Here, then they would probably suffer in China as they are trying to be more like us. I believe that is ultimately what saved Buick from the axe.

I know that back in 2003, when Olds was being axed talk was already on the table for Pontiac and Buick... When it came down they took out Saturn instead of Buick for one reason or another. I think there is more money to be made per unit with Buick than a Saturn as well. Consider that for years Saturn was its own car, they had lack luster sales, and besides, with the exception of the Sky, I never looked at a Saturn and said "I had to have one of those", There have been several Buicks that I liked over the years, and several Pontiacs that I could honestly say "I really like that" The Grand National for example, Actually I like the styling of the new Lacrosse, and Regal (Granted you can only get a Regal in a shades of Blah.) Lets see... You can get White, Brown Gray, Black, or Blue, no red... Hmm

John

Guest

Well so far I'm 3 for 3. Olds, Pontiac, Mercury. I figured Saturn was a lame duck from the get go, not much to say there. If they do anything in China, it will be like the "GTO", a rebadged Malibu will be sold as a Buick Lucerne, or something like that.

What does this to as far as access to Pontiac historical records? I know there's been a fight over the whole issue and I'm not sure where that all stands today, but I wonder what thats going to do for the future? I got my copy of the documents for my 86 (SPID was long gone) but some people have nothing.

scottmoyer

I forgot to lock this! I thought I'd go against board policy and allow this as a historical thread and open it up for some civil commentary, but it didn't go as planned, so back to my original plan.