//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

thought that was 500?

1BADDAM

IMSA, NHRA, and the likes have standard as to how many units have to be produced to qualify for racing, etc to be considered a production vehicle. Hence why there were better than 50 1969 ZL1 Camaro's produced, 500 GNX's, ect. This is what I was referring to.

If you wanna call any parts mfg. / tuner who can get GM to put a check box on the order sheet production, so be it.

To me, GM had more reasons than logistical training to not want to get behind this $50,000 failure. For one they probable counted how many B4U check boxes they had or in this case didn't have. 250 were authorized to be built - nice shortfall. Additionally, it was such a great car that SLP would only warranty it for 12/12,000 - really standing behind your product.

1BADDAM

Remember (see line 2) they were technically made in an Assembly plant.........not a HOUSE, GM's or otherwise.

Gumby

Until the aro wars

Those super birds owned the track

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Well that's certainly a travesty.

IMissMy86TA

Dude you are so wrong.. as far as collectability... the firehawk wins.
Think Yanko Camaro that wasnt even a "factorty" option. Try to get one of those cheap...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yenko_Camaro

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

What other parts mfg / tuner got GM to give a specific RPO for their part that we don't consider factory? The only i can even vaguely begin to consider are the early convertibles, but I am pretty sure all FACTORY convertibles came with a 3 in the RPO instead of a 2 (iirc).

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Sick and twisted 4 sure.
Buuuut I think I kinda like it. And even I hate those wings on anything other than a Daytona or superbird.. Im sooo confused!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The reason 4 a purchase failure is 1 the cost. Look what a vet cost back then and what the 350 formula would of cost.
Its easy to see y they didnt sell. They were just waaay to far out of reach 4 the people that truly wanted them. Sad
As far as a warranty? Its hard to warranty something that close to a race car. They used all GM parts (but thecam & intake). soo GM stepped up, a little.
I dont think its that bad. Most of the cars havent even broke 5,000 miles yet. Again Sad.. There are a few that have 50,000 give or take, if I have correct info.

okfoz

1) I might be wrong but I want to think that the ZL1 Aluminum block cars were COPO cars, not RPO cars.

2) The Firehawk could technically be considered a Failure, hence why the heritage Edition Camaros ended up being a sticker package, and not a performance package as they were originally intended. The articles of the day alluded to the idea that the Heritage cars were going to be a performance wonder, much like the Firehawk, but it never came to be as such...

3) The fact is when you are talking doubling or more than doubling the price of a car your market gets smaller really quick. The car IS a success in regards to what it is, the car may not have been a successful seller, however they were a successful performer. The fact that in 1993 the Firehawk was not nearly as modified as the 91 & 92's definitely had something to do with cost to the 91-92 upgrades. The 4th Gen Hawks had some upgrades, but not nearly to the extent as the 3rd Gen, more or less bolt on items, possibly a cam, but I am not sure about that either. The only thing the 3rd gen Hawk really kept from the FORMULA was the Body and most of the interior, The Brakes, Wheels, Engine, trans, axle, (probably drive-shaft) anything that made the car move or stop was upgraded or changed to a superior car. There is no one that could argue that the firehawk was a Super Car of the era, even by today's standards it is still very respectable which does say a lot.

4) Production by definition is the "act of Manufacturing" There were many options that were one of one, or "low production." As an example, the 1LE's only made it over 500 units for a single year (1992) and that was only because of the B4C Police cars. The standard 1LE's without the B4C police option was only about 116 or so. 1991 1LE cars appear to be quite common however w/o the B4C, but even so, the production is below your *magic* number of 500.

Interestingly one of the cars that you reference, the GNX for example was just a limited production, it was an aftermarket conversion. The fact that they only made 500 probably had more to do with the fact that their facility was only able to supply a limited number. It had nothing to do with racing them, it had more to do with making a fast car. The GNX name itself however probably borrowed the X from when Buick had the GSX back in the early 70s, which complemented the GS (Gran Sport).

However The Firehawk took its name from the Firehawk series which it got the name from the tires made by Firestone who sponsored it. The honest truth is the Trans Am got its name from the "Trans Am" racing series, the FORMULA got its name from "Formula 1", the Grand Prix got its name from the "Grand Prix", the Bonneville was also another race from the salt flats, ultimately the Firehawk was just another racing series, and why the name was probably used, it was not an Ed Hamburger dream up name. The truth be known yes Firehawks were raced in the Firehawk series, however the Firehawks in those races were by far anything like the model sold. They were stripped down versions, had no VIN etc...

The 12/12000 mile warranty, was a rather typical or standard warranty back in 1991 & 1992, it was not like today when you have 100,000 mile 10 year warranties. So to think that they were some how inferior because of a typical practice of the day is not fair by any stretch of the imagination. Besides, how many Firehawk owners think their car is crap and want to just ditch them??? anyone??? anyone??? Bueller? Bueller? Thought so, no takers on that.



John

L695speed

John you are right, I have several books and a couple Hemmings mags as reference...including the book on Otis Chandler's now defunct muscle car collection. The ZL1 cars were COPOs only. Not RPOs. You had to know someone or go to the right dealer to pull that off. Only 69 or so were built. And due the fact that they were COPOs and over the counter at the parts stores, there could be more. Which is true in the case of the Vette as officially only two were built, but reports say as many as 10 escaped the line due to the foggy nature of COPO orders. But thats another debate. Point is they were not RPOs.

And my take on this topic in particular...The Firehawk wins across the board, the TTA is second because its basically a loaded 1LE car, with a sweet revised Buick GNX motor, that blew every American car except the ZR1 out of the water til the Firehawk and Viper came along. 1LE birds are next due to the fact they are not as common, 1LE camaros are last.

1BADDAM

My statement you quoted neither discusses collectibility or comparisons. So WTF am I wrong about.

1BADDAM

Interesting...my TTA had a 3/36,000 standard and a purchased 7/100,000 mile warranty via GM.

Honestly, I never heard of any another vehicle having a one year / 12,000 mile warranty, maybe a microwave or toaster, but not any other car.

IMissMy86TA

So funny!!! My 86 TA and all 86 GM cars came with a one year 12 k mile warranty as did all non chrysler cars at the time.. Maybe even chrysler. Not sure didn't own one!
Yah my ta was a toaster. Wow...