florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

I'm wondeirng if I am alone in the world of restoring a V6 Third Gen that is sentimental but will never be worth half of what I am putting into it. Of course, if I took a poll I'm sure 99% of people would laugh and tell me not to put any money into a V6 1990 maroon Firebird with T-Tops, the aero ground effects package, and rarer beechwood interior trim being the only "upgrades", especially after knowing it now has 130,000 miles. I'm not going to try and make my car sound cooler than all the other Trans Ams / Formulas / Z28s out there, since I obviously have no ground to stand on.

I decided not to part with this car for the same reason I have thousands of 1980-1990 worthless baseball and football cards stacked in my closet (and I know I am NOT alone on these sports cards!!!). This was my first car I picked out with my father back in the mid 90s. It got me through college, many fraternity parties, far away military deployments, graduate school, and was the one point of stability in my life and things seemed to change constantly. Not to sound cheesy, but driving in the car seems to trigger all sorts of memories that I have forgotten about in my daily life. My friends always loved the car, probably due to GM75 being the best color for these cars especially during dusk (I say this realizing this may spark a heated debate .) I parked it in 2004 after buying a Honda Insight (don't ask - but constant 70-75 MPG was nice for a while), and only started working on it when my wife understandably told me we were either going to start fixing it up or get rid of it.

When I do a project, I do it right. I'm investing a fair amount of money into it since for everything except engine parts I will only buy original GM. I did take meticulous care of this car, and its condition is well above average, but 20+ years on any ungaraged daily driver will take its toll. About a year ago I redid the floor pan (sanded, fixed holes, and sprayed protectant) to maintain the integrity of the frame. I have my stockpile of GM parts and decals waiting to be added upon a complete sand down and paint job---but am I alone in the 3d Gen universe? To me, I cannot part with the car, and it means more than a car with a bigger engine or more options. To anyone else, it's a "nice looking car" as they move on to spend time looking at the 5.0s and 5.7s. I suppose I justify this as being a hobby and not an investment. After all, who goes into a hobby to make money? (Anyone want to buy a 1985 Dwight Gooden Topps rookie card i paid $15 for in 1987 that is now worth around 50 cents?)

jaygt

iTrader: (4)

still got my 85 ta i bought in 88. enjoy it.
with some nice wheels and lowered it will look great.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I say good for you! Let's see some pics too.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Let them laugh. It's all about what makes you happy! Your time. Your money. Your satisfaction. Have fun and enjoy the hell out of the fruits of your labor.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

There are plenty of people here that have a V6 car. With that in mind you are not alone at all. Mine is V6 but has no sentimental value. Even when restoring a V8 car a person can easily put more money into it then they could sell it for so that is a non issue. Fix it up and be proud of it. Even though a V6 it can still be sharp looking and catch peoples attention as it is 20+ years old.
Believe or not I bought my car because it is a V6.

Andre#4

Do it. Let everyone else go straight to hell in a handbasket. You have a very special car. I believe you said you had the appearance package. 89 and 90 were the only years you could get a v6 with the beautiful timeless looks of the trans am. (91-92 does not count because the add on's don't have a timeless beauty, but rather a tacked on, missmatched, afterthought look to them)

Beechwood is the best color for 1990. (my choice would be to have an 87 or 88 with red interior, but if it was a 89 or newer, beechwood is best. I like to color everything beechwood though. the center console, dash, etc)
]
The v6 cars have lots of advantages, and I have been looking for a good one for years and have not found one. I personally hate t tops, but that is my taste. Perhaps in the v6 car they would not leak or rattle, and I would like to have them. In an L98 350 car you have a permament lake in the back seat floor, and a mold factory in the front.

Advantages of v6 car:

Less rattles
less squeaks
less creaks
stronger structural integrity
better ride
better steering
cheaper insurance
better fuel mileage
better tire availability
less breakage (should be none at all if taken care of...I drove a v-6 turbo car 240k miles without a mechanic touching it, and only changed the oil 4 times. tires 4 times, brakes once. no tune ups or repairs needed. no filters except oil filter. this proves that cars only break if mechanics touch them. after all, only unreliable cars pay the bills for them.)


Level 1 suspension:

only v6 cars have this, in my opinion the best suspension for our cars. It makes the car ride like a normal car instead of an oxcart. Since our cars are unibody with little frame support, the soft suspension and modest tires make the body stay tight and rigid instead of turning it into a rattle trap. and perhaps can even make the t-tops weatherproof (I have no proof of this, I just suspect it since the car does not get twisted up) It is softer than the y99 level 2 or ws6 le3vel 3 suspension. these cars handle so well that they don't need hard suspensions. They don't need steamroller sized tires that stick out and spray stones on the body either. what happened to regular cars with regular tires anyway? Some sidewall to absorb potholes and bumps. I think the best wheels for our car are the 15x7" knight rider smooth hubcaps on the finned aluminum wheels. Aerodynamic, stylish, wide enough for great handling and narrow enough not to stick out and spray stones on the body. But there are plenty of wheel choices in 14-16" sizes. Go with 14" if you want an even more comfy ride than the 15".

Less torque

Again, since these cars have no frame structure to support them, the low torque prevents the structure from getting tweaked and twisted up, which then makes everything loose and rattle. Combine this with the soft tires, the soft suspension, and you have a car that can stay relatively tight and rattle free. These cars were designed for 150hp and 14 or 15" tires. when the big v8's got powerful, and the tires became like steamrollers, the structure was overstressed and you end up with a flexible flyer type toy car that is not really enjoyable in daily driving.

Cheap insurance
with insurance premiums amounting in the thousands of dollars, you have to give the insurance company enough money every year to buy another car. Except you don't get another car. You still have the same car. THE v6 engine mitigates this somewhat. My insurance with a 5.7 used to be $5,000 per year.

Better steering
these cars were designed with a recirculating ball steering design, designed for the narrow tires. By 1990, only the v6 cars have the original steering box with the proper ratio. the v8 cars have the faster ratio, which wears out the box within 20k miles and you end up with sloppy steering that is much worse than the v6 steering for the rest of the life of the car. with the standard ratio, the box lasts longer because the gearing is not overdriven. Also, it is much easier to turn the narrower tires. That also saves the steering box. Compare a v6 car with a v8 car after 60k miles. the v6 feels like a tight rack and pinion compared to the v8 which is sloppy and feels like an old car with a worn out steering gear. Plus, the v8 steering box has a harder to turn steering wheel, and it is harder to park. Add slop to that and it is very annoying. the v6 cars steer easily without slop in the steering.

Fuel mileage
gasoline costs $4.00 per gallon. It was 90 cents in 1990. Even if a v8 made sense then, it is ridiculous now.

Cheaper tires
with the 15" wheels, you can afford to buy good michelin tires. WIth the bigger wheels , you might be forced to buy some chinese tires because of the higher cost of the larger size.

Less breakdowns and less worn out parts

the v6 is easier on every part of the car and everything lasts longer. motor and trans mounts, bushings, alternators, starters, etc.

the L98's eat alternators every 6 months. starters every year or 2. And this was when the cars were new.

These alternators and starter problems leave you stranded. at least when the starters start to go bad, you can still start the car if you wait for it to cool down an additional 30 minutes.

There are other things too.

But most important is that you know the car and love it and you are not doing this to sell it to someone else. Besides, whatever it costs, you will have a better, higher quality car than anything made today in the car industry. Todays cars are hideously ugly, they are made with chinese parts that cant last more than 2 years without failing, they are full of computers made with cheap chinese circuitry, and the bodies are not even finished. they leave the seems open when they weld panels together. just look at the edge of the roof of any car made in the last 10 years. the roof welds are exposed, with a cheap plastic strip to cover them. On our cars, the roof is leaded in smoothly. There are hundreds of compromises and crap engineering that goes into new cars these days. Even Mercedes Benzes can't run for more than a few days at a time anymore. (google "new mercedes benz nightmare" for info on the hundreds of thousands of people with new MB's that get towed from the side of the road 10 times a year, only to be told at the MB dealer that it will cost them $8,000 to $10,000 to fix something even though the car is under warranty)

GerryCat09

iTrader: (1)

Nothing at all wrong with a V6. I have two V8 fbodies, and my friend has a V6 camaro, and when we cruise he gets better milage than me, so who's laughing then? I was searching for a V6 as a DD, but I ended up with a V8 cause it was the cleanest car in my area. Just enjoy that V6 and let all of the "V8s are the only way to go" crowd laugh, a nice fbody is a nice fbody, and enthusiasts can enjoy the car on that basis, nevermind the engine displacment! Just my 0.02$.

Andre#4

130k miles is very low for these cars. you might replace the timing chain and sprockets, because the camshaft sprockets are plastic and they break off and can ruin motor. Meanwhile, the timing chain and gears only cost about $30-50, and they will be metal. Water pump has to come off, but don't replace that with a chinese one. You will be tempted to install a new water pump since you have taken it off, but Be careful of the chinese replacement parts. Even genuine GM parts are made in china now. Another reason your car is better than a new one. For the timing chain and gears, get a set made by Cloyes. Do this BEFORE it breaks. the v6 will last at least 300k miles if the chain does not break. For the water pump (if you want to replace it for the hell of it when it is off the car anyway) try to find a New Old Stock one on ebay or the internet. The gm box will have a country of origin on it. If you install a chinese one, the car will not be reliable, and it will **** you off when it breaks leaving you stranded. Keep the old water pump if you can't find an american, canadian, or mexican relpacement. OR have it rebuilt at a machine shop with a new gland.

Rich2279

iTrader: (7)

I hear you on the Dwight Gooden card. Back in the day I bought Cal Ripken, Eric Lindros, Mark McGwire rookie cards, etc. and the values have gone down so much. I ended up switching to comic books. At least with the comic books I get to enjoy reading them. As for the car, it is all in what makes you happy and enjoy life.

JackRs

iTrader: (2)

People call me insane, every time they ask how much I've put into my car and I say 11 times what I originally paid. (and it's a V6 220,XXX) But i wouldn't trade it for any car

Tobias05

sentiments is why i still have my rusted out 87. not only is it my first car, but every panel is destroyed with serious rust. mechanically it's "almost" brand new.

with an LS1 and a carbed 350, i wish i had a v6 anything right about now as far as gas is concerned.

...about to steal the wife's car.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

LS1 w/ T-56 should get better gas mileage then the V-6 Thirdgen. Mine did. Just keep your foot out of it.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry Andre #4, but your posts are total, total rubbish.

The anti-Chinese ranting doesn't do much to help our reputation as rednecks, either.

Jason E

With all due respect, I don't disagree with that part of his post one bit. As someone who makes a living off of the domestic auto industry, and is an avid enthusiast of said industry, I absolutely HATE sending money overseas when it comes to purchasing replacement and/or other parts for my vehicles, or anything for that matter.

I've watched way, way too many jobs leave this country, and seen a whole lot of subpar, crappy replacement parts come across me to feel otherwise. This not to say its all junk...

But a significant amount of it is. I will happily pay more for a "Made in USA" part. As US citizens, we all should. Sorry...don't mean to hijack the thread. Carry on

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I'm not going to comment on the chinese stuff, but I agree with everything else in this post. He should repost it in the "V6 love" thread

kymmee

I say go for it. I've got a maroon 82 V-6, survivor with 22k. Not gonna change a thing about her, just enjoy the car for what it is. Look at it this way-you'll definately be in the minority.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I have an '85 v6 I'm restomodding the crap out of, $750 for the car and at least 3k into it, mostly in parts, and I still can't drive the damn thing(needs a bit more work atm) but I love the car to death and would have trouble parting with it, even though I've only had it a year and a half and it hasn't exactly been good to me,lol, my only regret is that I can't drive it atm or have the money to finish fixing it. It's my first car and I've wanted a 3rd gen for a long time, I fell in love with the body style as a kid, always thought they looked badass, didn't have interest in cars much though till I started driving, and after 2 hand me down ugly, boring, slow sedans I vowed I would buy myself a camaro.

Oh and people question my commitment to the thing all the time on account of it being a v6 and costing me a TON of money.

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

I would love to get a V6 5 speed third gen for a daily driver...or even a 4th gen, but I have 2 boys in car seats so a 4 dr is more needed. Enjoy those V6 cars and save them from the crusher!!! Long live V6 Third Gen Camaros/Firebirds!!

jakemussman

iTrader: (3)

My 90 3.1 Camaro is my daily driver and restore project. Ive saved every receipt since I started restoring it and I am sure it is well into the thousands. I love the car and don't ever plan on selling it.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

i'm spending way too much money on mine, but I don't care. In the next couple weeks I'm getting factory louvers and reupholstered seats with the padding refreshed.

After the roundup this year I'm going to spend 6 months tearing it apart, stripping it down, and making it show car quality. Is it worth it? probably not, but I'm still looking forward to driving it around and showing it off.

kmcn47

nope, first car v6, some neat options i think, never gonna let it go either

mr305

iTrader: (1)

From what I've noticed by talking to thirdgen owners most are sentimentally attached to their fbody i sure am..... I had to choose between which car too keep my 89 Iroc convertible or my plain Jane 91 RS because 2 projects was just too much..... I choose to keep my RS no matter how much more the Iroc is worth no amount of money can replace all those memories I've made in my RS that sounds cheesy but that's just how it is haha so I understand what you mean hope your car turns out good!!

kukerdan

iTrader: (1)

I loved my 88 V6 MPFI auto camaro, I had a worked auto in it, no cat, and a dynomax superturbo exhaust... fully tuned up and what not, very very fun! handles AWESOME... do it up, its a great car, that is practicle because of the good gas mileage, and way cooler than todays cookie cutter cars.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

V6 owner here also, I love my 89 RS and thankful for the gas saving motor!
Will never sell it, but my heart is still with the Iroc TPI i sold. Someday I will have another Iroc V8 TPI

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

ive been modding my v6 since i got it in high school back in 2002. ive got 100 times more money in the car than its worth, its all sentimental attachment at this point lol

68Strat

iTrader: (3)

just put 11k + into a Sport Coupe and I don't feel bad. Some call me insane... It's all about what it means to you.

kmcn47

dude i love your car, could you post more pics of it, if i was to get a camaro it would have to have the sport coupe nose

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I agree. I have to question if he understands what he is writing. FWIW, I'm a V6/6 cylinder enthusiast.

Just because a product is made over seas doesn't automatically make the rest of the object it's attached to unreliable. I've used many over seas supplied parts over the years and only rarely had a problem. Even many of the parts that are stamped with "Made in the U.S.A." are actually made over seas, they just get assembled in North America so then they are allowed to be stamped with the "Made In The U.S.A/North America" tags. It's a global economy, get used it, it's not going away.

Sounds like a good project, is your wife helping you with it? The way you made the comment of "We are going to fix it up or get rid of it" made it sound like she might be.

florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

Hold on...Were you actually able to find Cragar louvers??? Either you're the luckiest person out there, or you know a secret place you're hiding from the rest of us

58mark

iTrader: (3)

factory louvers and crager louvers are two different things, but they are very similar

kmcn47

at any rate, your car is gonna look amazing when you get her finished

kukerdan

iTrader: (1)

To the guy with the big list in bold letters... I loved all those things about my V6 camaro.. and half of them carry over in my v8 conversion, like the steering box hehehe

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I got my dash down out of the top of the garage a couple weeks ago to get at the harness... Found out I was 1K short in what I've been saying my 87 base V6 has, it's got 248K on the body and rearend, and looks every bit of it (or it did before I completely tore it apart).

Bought for the worst $1K I ever spent. Never, NEVER should have given the PO of my baby more than $600 with all of the work I've had to put into her. I spent more than that replacing the worn-out auto trans with a more-fun T5. And about the same in the stereo. And now, WAY more than that with the full teardown and rebuild. Rust is a persistant little thing, but it's nearly dead now. Gone the hybrid route, and currently have $450 into that between the ECM, heads and intake and gaskets, and the various add-on devices, and not done yet. I figure that I'll have spent what she was bought for off of the dealer lot back in 87 before she's done.

And, Andre, you're full of crap. I have/had original GM timing chain and gears on my V6 when I replaced them with a Melling timing set. They aren't plastic. And, yes, always replace the water pump if you're going to be pulling the timing cover unless you can do the replacement pretty quick as those seals like to dry out. Had one go out on me in the middle of a city that cost $240 to replace. Also, if you want to buy a part made in Mexico, go ahead. Their quality controls are ALMOST as good as China's .

I'll keep my 30 MPG V6 (with a code 45, nonetheless) with its styling as opposed to getting another car with nowhere near the mileage with a V8. Unless I can find myself a second-gen Z/28.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I feel ya, I have well over twice what I paid for my $750 car into it...and for that, I got to drive it 2 weeks after a whole lot of work and money, then the fuel pump and or a valve spring broke...but at least its pretty much road worthy again nearly, I just hope this electrical auto shop is up to snuff, cause I gave up figuring out my FUBAR ecm and dis swap, though I do still kind of think its the ICM, but at $100 for a new one, I just don't know I want to bite the bullet on a guess like that...on the other hand it would suck to shell out that much for towing to the shop and then labor for them to tell me the ICM is toast...Oh and I also have to wait a month to get it into the shop, did I mention that I need my car in less than that..

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

iv got one here :] rebuilt from top to bottom aswell.

Project 3.4 Camaro

My hood when new(I got it 2ndhand, the way to go for fiberglass hoods imo) would've been worth what I paid for my car, lol.