SMOOTHANDHARD69

ARE FORMULAS 305 WORTH RESTORING ???

2007xl50

Well more spec's on the car would be nice, what engine and trans, the mileage of the car, is it T-tops, good stuff like that. maybe even some pix of the car for us to better help you out. Help us help you.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

If they're in impossible-to-read and impolite all-caps, probably not.

There were ALOT of those made, so it will come down ALOT more to the condition of the specific car in question, the level of options that it had, and the mileage. "WS6" IN PARTICULAR doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the question at hand, because (a) it was standard equipment on that model of car, (b) nobody cared about it or mentioned it by name until it became a BUZZWORD!!!! by way of the later-model cars that had all the big gaudy STICKERS!!!!! about it, and (c) most of the stuff that made it any different from any other "W" option set (springs, shocks, sway bars) is long since wore out and ready for the trash, besides being inferior to aftermarket stuff.

If it's a TBI car, almost certainly not worth bothering with.

daturbosix

iTrader: (2)

NO ITS NOT WORTH IT. SELL IT TO ME INSTEAD.

SR-71

ABSOLUTELY!
(I meant to shout that, for emphasis! )

In my opinion a Formula is better than a TransAm. A Formula doesn't have a bunch of extra metal and plastic dressing on it, but has the same engine, drivetrain, and suspension. What does that mean?

Without all that cladding, a Formula is easier to keep rust-free, eliminating a bunch of area where dirt, water, and road chemicals can accumulate.

Formula is almost 500 pounds lighter. Simple comparison: figure 350 horsepower, and a TA has a 10:1 weight/power ratio. Formula: 9:1. That means faster launch, lower ET, faster terminal speed.

Formula has much cleaner aerodynamics. It's basically bare with the Aero rear wing. TA drag coefficient is about 0.34. Formula is 0.28. That means higher top speed and better gas mileage.

TA is an appearance and performance package. Formula is just the performance.

Simply put-- with equal engine, suspension, and drivetrain-- the Formula is faster in the quarter, faster in top end, handles tighter in the twisties or the AutoX, and gets better gas mileage. TA owners don't like to admit it, but it's absolutely true.

As far as the 305 goes, there's value in keeping it if the car is "numbers matching." A 305 can be built up to make respectable power numbers. But if you're after raw performance, go up to a 350, 383, or (like I did) a 406. My only regret is, I didn't keep my original 305, build it up nice, and "mothball" it for future value.

2007xl50

I agree with your statment above, however for someone like me that is going to keep my TA 95% Original and just roll it now and then-I like the looks of the TA much better. If I was going to make a race car then Formula is the way to go.

SR-71

Notice I didn't say anything about appearance. TA definitely has the meaner, more aggressive look.

On the other hand, I also personally prefer the "clean" look of the Formula. In my twisted mind, I like the "sneak machine" aspect of it. Camaro owners didn't have such an option.... a street fighter model without special appearance to give it away. I was disappointed with the 3rd-gen RS-- Z-28 looks, but a V6 under the hood. The 1st-gen RS I drove once had a 307 with 2-speed automatic, and would run 150 mph.

Ford did the same thing with the Fox-body Mustangs. They made the GT, which everybody wanted. But the real killer was the 5.0 LX, with no markings except LX emblems. If I was a Ford guy, that's the Mustang I would go for.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

If its a rusted out heap? No. If its a stripped shell? Maybe if its clean. If it has no rare/unusual options, then nadda.

BTW, If you replace GTA with Formula I think the same.

500lbs? Come again? Cite your source. A formula is generally lighter than a TA with the same options, True statement. 500lbs lighter? BS Statement.

As for the drag coefficient, the early TA with standard aero wheels had a CoD of .299. Anything running wider tires is going to be worse than that. I'll believe it if you can find the Pontiac literature supporting a .28 CoD statement. A thirdgen bird could easily be modified to achieve a better CoD, but factory stock I don't think any bird managed .28.

SR-71

In doing some more digging, I did find that generally the Cd of TA was .299, as cited in the link you provided. The 0.28 I claimed for the Formula came from drag racing data, which, to be honest, I don't remember where I got it.
Drag coefficient aside, the TA has a larger frontal area than the Formula (from the same link you gave). So even with equal Cd, the TA still has more overall wind resistance.

Weight... OK. I overstated some. According to http://www.gtasourcepage.com/techspecs.html, a TA weighs 3460 to 3530 pounds. I know for certain ('cuz I weighed it) that my Formula weighs 3140 pounds. So the weight difference is 320 to 390 pounds. I said "almost 500 pounds." 390 is almost 500 when you're talking about weights over 3000.

However you look at it, "only" 320 pounds, all else being equal, translates to about 0.3 seconds added to the ET. Plus the larger frontal area. Figure another tenth for that. Same power and gearing, a Formula comes out almost half a second faster.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

at factory power levels wind resistance is such a SMALL portion of the drag race. These cars don't even break 100mph.

At 100mph the difference in drag is less than 15lbs worth. Even at 200mph its only about 48lbs worth.

And when you factor in the overall frontal area its minor. Removal of the side mirrors is worth more frontal area than the GFX kit.

Drag (lbs) = (1/391)*CoD*Frontal*(MPH^2)

petrolhead

If your looking to turn it for a profit then most any of these cars won't be worth it. My car is realisticly not worth it either, but I am affectionate towards the car. If it wasn't for me, it would probably have been crushed by now. Not to say it won't be worth anything when it's done. Even though these cars are finally starting to gain value, I don't buy these cars for a quick flip.

SMOOTHANDHARD69

its a hard top it has a 305 tpi engine and i have the pics of the car in my albums its the black one with the bulge in the hood

SMOOTHANDHARD69

im leaning more to modifying the formula then if it was meant to be all performance ..probably go to mechanic school learn mechanics and upgrading everything on the car suspension etc put and ls1 engine some c6 corvette wheels with red break calipers borla mufflers doing all the work myself to know what i put in to the car and not getting ripped off by some bulls**t mechanic.........if i had a gta i think i would leave it the way it is that car looks like a masterpiece fully restored imo no need to mess with its appearance

okfoz

The Initial Question "Is a 305 Formula worth restoring?"

Yes... And no... The Formula (In my opinion) is the best looking of the Firebird lineup from 87-92, not to mention it is the "GTO" of the day.. It was optioned in such a way that with a 350/A4 or LB9/M5 it would be the fastest of the the Firebirds...

A Base Formula IE LG4 or L03 with a rust free body in my opinion at this point in time is probably better as a car that would make a nice platform for a newer engine, or at least an upgrade to an L98....



John

Straightsix88

I own a 1988 firebird fomula, bone stock on a straight road I could hit 110, so your statement about them not reaching 100mph is false..

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

In a DRAG RACE. Show me a factory stock L98 that breaks 100mph in the 1/4 mile. They don't exist.

okfoz

You are both talking about two different things... STraightsix88 is talking about Flat out... And I know for a fact that my Formula can do 130 in Drive, did not go into OD, but it took me under 1/2 mile to get there.

A 1/4 mile Drag race, the best we might get with a Stock 3rd gen (except TTA and Firehawk) would be around 95-100mph, on a good day with the wind behind you.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I've got a time slip around here somewhere that shows 14.3@97.4mph for my 91 Formula. At the time it had right around 100k miles, a shattered flexplate, a rattling cat, and the conditions were less than optimal, but it was pretty much stock. On a cooler day, without idling in line waiting to run, with everything just perfect - I could believe in a 100mph run. But then it might also spin the tires for 20ft and clock a 15 something. Such is the nature of tuned port torque.

okfoz

How true... 14.3 is screaming fast for a stock 3rd gen.

mk1431

[http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle...60-mph-times/]
time to settle this 1/4 mile time aswell

LiquidBlue

Bam! There it is!

LiquidBlue

Why are you asking? To make tons of money? No. Get a job cutting lazy people's yards in Texas and you will be money ahead. To have a nice car. Yes! Comparing to something else? What?

SolarGoldRaptor

What car is worth restoring anyway ? Only a handful of models will bring more money than the cost of a restoration.

Unless it's rusted out or it's bent, do it if you like restoring cars and don't mind having a non running car for a good while in your garage. Just don't expect to get you money back, do it for the passion and the fun you'll get in the end.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Stock I went 14.40s in my 89 formula 350 and with "free" mods It went 14.10s. Better traction and im sure it would have gone 13.90s.

okfoz

Why do I have all the slow cars... Or maybe I should stop drag racing at places that go from East to West... (into the wind) I was happy with 14.7 or so and that is with SLP headers oversized runners, a cam, SLP cat-back exhaust... sheesh

Veaceonee

iTrader: (1)

When it comes to a 3rd gen being worth restoring, its a mixed answer.

If you plan on restoring it to sell, then no. you will never get your investment out of it.

If you plan on restoring it to keep, then that is totally up to you.

okfoz

When I restored my 87 Formula in 1998 I had $8,000 into it. I got new upholstery, re covered the headliner, fresh Sherwin Williams paint, rebuilt the engine and trans on my own. I put in a Kenwood stereo I had purchased in 1995. It was a great experience, I learned a lot about the cars...

BUT since then I went a little crazy... I have converted from a 4BBL to TPI, I have installed Bear Brakes, I have installed a custom interior, and I have repainted the car to show quality (again Sherwin Williams) Installed a wonder bar, SLP Headers, SLP cat-back, 3.73 gear and the list goes on and on... Now I have $30,000+ into it (this includes my initial $8000) After all of my money I wish I would have bought a Firehawk, I could have bought #2 about 10 years ago for $22,000... BUT I would not know what I know now. I have had almost every bolt and screw out of the car, and that experience has been invaluable... I look at it like a $30,000 education to try and help others.

asgard815

Jason E

You CAN restore a third gen and get your money back out of it, or even make some. I've done it...but you have to be super careful.

In 2010 I bought a 30k mile 86 Trans Am LB9/A4 car for $3,000 on Craigslist with 30k. Paint was destroyed, but car was solid. After spending $3,000 on paint, $500 re-doing the original 15" wheels, $200 rewrapping the leather wheel, a few hundred on good upholstery repair for the top of the back seat, $500 or so on graphics, $1,000 on tune up parts and A/C restoration, and probably $1,000 or so on other stuff, I had a beautiful original car I had about $9,000 in.

I sold it for $10,000 in 2012 to the first person that looked at it, 4,000 miles after I bought it. It was an awesome experience, and the end result was a beautiful car that I saved from some kid buying it, and beating it to death. I hope the guy I sold it to still has it...he intended to keep it original, and perfect.

Restorations can be done if you start with a solid car, do a lot of work yourself, and are careful with your budget.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

But you're not accounting for your time and labor. If you spent the same quantity of time working evenings and weekends at a part time job as you spent working on the car, you probably would have made a lot more than $1,000 profit.

A few years ago there were tons of decent thirdgens that would clean up really easily for rock bottom prices. All I've seen lately is overpriced junk. It'd be a lot harder to do now than it was in 2010.

okfoz

Every year it gets harder and harder. I picked up several cars for cheap, cleaned them up, sold them and made a few $$... nothing to get rich off of, and I had a lot of time invested. But if the right deal comes along, and I already have parts... It is a no brainer.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Ive always lost my A$$ on third gens honestly. But, the car I have now I plan to keep and do not care what its worth when I get through with it. It will be custom fit for me. So restoring one may not be worth it in terms of resale value but priceless if that's the car that makes you happy and takes you back to a better time when you get in it and go for a drive. My car does that for me.

okfoz

Buy Low, Sell High. Some cars If I had the time I would pick up, and just clean up. Heck I cannot believe the number of cars out there that people sell with McDonalds Bags still in the back Seat. Come on, at least try to make it look presentable.

Linson

[QUOTE=SR-71;5448138]


I'd have to disagree with that. meaner, more aggressive (IMO) goes to the Formula. sleeker, cleaner, again, Formula. "nicer" and more elegant, then I would probably say Trans Am.



I also prefer the cleaner looks of the Formula, but I actually think it looks every bit as fast (faster actually) than the TA. it has the same wrap around spoiler as a TA, it has the offset bulge on the hood, which, while very sleek, is also (IMO) more aggressive looking than the vented hood of the TA. and then it has the different factory wheels which are less elegant than the crosslace, but again (IMO) more aggressive looking. point being, Formulas do look different from base model 'Birds in all the right ways, so its not like you'd be fooling anyone into thinking its a base model.


which is why I also have a 1989 LX
along with an '89 Formula 350 and '89 TTA.

Linson

and by "RESTORING" does the OP mean "to restore back to stock specifications" or does he use "RESTORING" as a general term for "fixing up the car?" if he means the latter, then that could mean an LSX/T56, forced induction, just about anything.


also, he asks about a "Formula 305" but his avatar info indicates Formula 350. two different cars or a typo somewhere?

LiquidBlue

Formula is the Mach 5. Of course you gotta have the T-tops!

FireballXL5

One thing not mentioned here is car shows, I am sure guys like to show off what they have done ie mods, upgrades, some looking for trophies etc.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Ya know, there are so many of these dead thread bumps lately... I'm convinced flagging them so the mods can deal with them is the only way "infinite scroll" and "related threads" is ever going to be set to disabled by default.