dagwood

iTrader: (5)

The last Norwood IROC-Z. I mean, seriously....what is the car worth in your opinion? It has like 100k miles, and has been meticulously restored. It's the last Norwood built car, but does that really add any value? I mean, Leonard's 92 Z28 is THE very last third gen. I really don't see where this car is even anywhere near the same ballpark as Leonard's 92 Z28. I can see where the last Norwood car would have sentimental value to people that worked at that particular plant or whatever.....but does that car REALLY matter to anyone else? I was just looking at pics of the car....and seeing the awesome restoration made me wonder if the car was really worth the amount that the restoration would have cost. I mean....a LOT of car plants have had a last car......but there were also a crap load of third gens built after the Norwood car. What are your thoughts? Personally, i don't know if the car could fetch $30,000.... $40,000..... $50,000............ $60,000??...but.....the big money seems to be going to the ORIGINAL cars. There probably isn't a single original thing on this car other than the plaque on the center console....

I'm not trying to bash this car in any way. It's gorgeous. And it's a pretty cool part of history and being a third gen fan, I am super glad that it is restored. I'm just curious as to what number is a realistic price for the car. Obviously an insurance company has an agreed value on it....

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

to me it isnt a big deal if its the last norwood car built .. now the last third gen camaro ever built with all those sigs and no miles on it is a different story .. a restored 100k mile iroc isnt worth a whole lot to me .. maybe 10k cause i dont care about the history

JT

iTrader: (1)

The signatures from those who worked at Van Nuys and how the car was preserved gives the last Van Nuys Camaro X more value than the last Norwood Camaro. I think that's hard for any collector to say otherwise. It's kind of too bad the Van Nuys Camaro is locked away but it's better than if it were to have been used as the Norwood car was.

While I agree that I can't see the last Norwood Camaro being in the same league as the last Van Nuys Camaro, to me, it does have added value as it's a marker in the Camaro and Norwood history. I'm mixed about the restoration. The car may look like what it did when it left the assembly line but what is original to the car? To me, it's more about the car and it's history than what it looks like.

3rdgenzroc

I see what you guys are saying. But, I also see the other flip of the coin. If you look at other, older desirable cars. Say a 1st gen, or late 70's/early 80's T/A. Heck, even your old Mopars, GTO's. etc., they can fetch a good amount coin now a days. This wasn't always the circumstances. I remember these cars littered all over, and you could pick them up for little to nothing. As they aged, and became more scarce, the values exceeded more than I would have dreamed on most of them. This includes ones that have been ran into the ground and then restored. I can remember friends fathers restoring some of these and putting in time and money I never would have thought they could ever get back out. Yes they are still some low mileage examples out there that are huge money, but even the restored ones that are done right have become desirable now and command good money (think 70 Nova SS's). So in time, I think this could be a desirable and profitable car. Just not there yet, like the older muscle cars that were easy to get years ago were. Just my observation/2 cents.

LeonardS

Its a bit of a catch-22.......if I don’t make the car available to see, people think I should be doing something different with the car, rather than just storing it.........if I offer to show it to people, they think I’m bragging about it. I have learned not to show it to people that aren’t “car people”, because they don’t understand why I have it. I actually have an employee from the Van Nuys Plant, that worked on the car, who is coming to see it next Spring/Summer. See..... I do make it available to see, when someone is truly interested.

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I would have loved to have seen it again.....but someone MOVED TO NORTH DAKOTA

LeonardS

Its a beautiful State in the Summer! You could make a road trip🤓🤓

JT

iTrader: (1)

Don't misunderstand. I'm glad that a person like you, with the ability to store it and know the value it has, owns the car so that it continues to be preserved. You know some people think the car needs to be driven, should be driven, that cars have feelings and other stuff. There's other ThirdGens for that. Someone was asking me about the car recently, and aside what you stand to profit from the car *when* you do sell it, I started to understand their view of how it's basically locked away from everyone. Which leads me to..

I thought it was just me! Don't feel too bad, the car got moved without me getting to see it.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Notice he didn't say in the winter?

LeonardS

You had the opportunity for 10+ years 😜🤓. And you can still come and see it anytime.

LeonardS

Its not quite as nice in the Winter! The Spring, Summer and Fall definitely make up for that, if you like to be outdoors.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

The last Norwood car does nothing for me. There are a number of things on it that were never finished. If I remember correctly, the steering wheel and power window switches were still worn out. If you are going to go through that level of effort on a car like that, finish it. It's a restored car and restored cars to me will never have the same draw to me as an original in any condition. It's also a 305 / automatic car too. Leonard's car on the other hand was hugely influential to me growing up. I still have newspaper articles about it and is the reason I love the high rise wing cars so much. I'm super happy that he preserved it all these years and I hope to be able to see it some day in person

LeonardS

United Airlines flies into Jamestown. You are welcome to come for a visit!🤓

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

The car is worth whatever a nicely restored 100k mile Iroc goes for, and not one of the better ones either..350...305TPI/ 5spd

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

No more than any other high mile IROC. There's a reason Norwood closed and Van Nuys remained open.

JT

iTrader: (1)

What reason was that and what did it provide to the customer to benefit from a Van Nuys built ThirdGen? Did it result in better quality and value for the customer? Or simply more for the business and same (or worse) product?

Van Nuys was not known for the best paint quality. It's been explained as, in part, due to their location and what they had to comply with. It's true that the later ThirdGens, which came some time after Norwood's closure, are known for better structural qualities but wasn't that more of normal product development that wasn't exactly about the plant itself?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

It's an interesting story on how the car was found and restored.

But I'm not sure I'd value this car over another one with low(er) miles.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

I think it was due to the overall unit cost for production, and the shipping costs, as so many of the F-Body cars were sold west of the Mississippi.

Quality of paints were a problem at GM overall in the 1980s It was not limited to just the f-body line.

Also, the underside of the hood and some engine bay surfaces were not class a finished surfaces, and that was a GM decision. They were intentionally not sprayed thoroughly.

JT

iTrader: (1)

You said there was a reason Norwood closed while Van Nuys remained open while discussing the topic concerning the value of the last Norwood car. The reasons you're describing mostly benefit GM and not the buyer with better product or value.

At the Norwood gathering several years ago, the topic about why some Norwood cars went West and some Van Nuys cars went East was discussed. If I recall correctly, it's been 10 years ago, we were told the shipping cost was the same to GM due to their agreements they had and so it didn't cost GM any different for transport costs if a Van Nuys car came to OH or a Norwood car went to CA.

Norwood paint was known for being better. Van Nuys had to comply with California regulations.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if you have any experience in production or manufacturing, but there is little to no care on the benefits to a consumer when these kind of things are being considered.

JT

iTrader: (1)

No, I understand. Same can be said for many businesses, in general, to this day.

My point was, your initial response made it sound like you were tying a perceived lower value to this car because it was a Norwood car and that Norwood was closed before Van Nuys. That Norwood closed before Van Nuys would seem otherwise irrelevant to this car's value if you weren't implying Norwood's cars were inferior. Norwood's cars have a better reputation to some in our group and it's partly due to the paint quality and difference used between the plants.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I was also curious to read the "reason" for Norwood being the first to close. I'd have guessed simple economics, which is what research shows to be the case.

Apparently, it had been decided by 1984 that one of the of the plants was to be closed. The quality and sales of Japanese imports were killing GM, and 3rdgens were already obsolete anyway. Norwood was producing better cars, so GM originally planned to close Van Nuys. But Van Nuys was the newer, larger, more versatile facility, and it employed a lot more people than Norwood. So GM and the UAW in good ole CA worked out an agreement to implement "Japanese techniques" to try to improve quality and production, which made the decision to close Norwood, instead. Ironically, the efforts to make Van Nuys better, made everything worse, which led to its eventual demise.

Several good articles online about the closings of both plants. One mentions Leonard, by name, and his "custom-built," last 1992 Camaro. I work with someone who worked on the assembly line at Van Nuys when it closed. I'll ask if he got to sign it.

The article linked below features a picture of Norwood's 'last car' rolling out. Whether or not being the 'last car' adds anything to its value, there were just as many tears over this one, as there were over Leonard's.
General Motors Employees Discuss Norwood Plant Closure | GM Authority

LeonardS

LAFirebird, I’d be interested to know if he signed my car and if we met at the plant.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

We call him Machete. He's a rather imposing-looking, Hispanic gentlemen who resembles actor, Danny Trejo, from the Machete movies. Quite a character LOL. But our place of employment has been closed since March and isn't likely to reopen until spring or summer, so it will be awhile before I see him or talk to him. I don't know what his specific assignment was at Van Nuys, but he probably didn't look much different 30 years ago than he does today. So if you remember meeting a younger-looking version of someone like that, then it could only have been Machete! But I will let you know...

LeonardS

Thanks for the response! There were many Hispanic men in the Plant, so I can’t say that I remember any one of them in particular.....except a few that sent me photos of themselves with the car during assembly. Stay in touch!

roadthrills

My thoughts on this. The value of clean thirdgens has been steadily climbing. A perfect restored thirdgen will NEVER bring as much money as a perfect low mile original car. History at the auctions has shown us that time and time again. But, I do feel like being the very last car ever to roll out of that plant will add value to it......not staggering amounts of value.....but surely a bit more than another perfectly restored example of the same year car with the same options. Guessing 5-10% more. A complete and correct restoration will have cost much more than the car is currently worth. Another 10 years down the road.........it will be a different story.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I remember seeing this car at MCACN a few years ago and spending time talking to the owner on the car's story and restoration. I kept thinking to myself on what I'd imagine this car would be worth and I had no firm number.

Also at MCACN were cars with $100K-$200K restorations. Those restorations are magnificent, but my preference is always an original and unrestored survivor, even if it's not "perfect".