LTX and LSXPutting LT1's, LS1's, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects, including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
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View Poll Results: Did this swap make the power you would have expected?
Thought I would share my swap, see what people thought, and offer advice if anyone needs it...
Here is what I started with, of course it isnt quite this pretty anymore, the paint is pretty faded... the TPI 305 needed to go...
Engine prep time...
Tired TPI / 140'ish K, ran the crap out of it, never had a problem other than water pump/alternator
The donor, a 28k 2002 LS1 from an 35th Anniversary car. It is a complete pullout with Tremmec 6 speed all accessories and ecu/wiring. The crank pulley had a few chips, so I swapped in a March underdrive pulley.
I had to cut the crossmember for the ac compressor to clear.
The test fit.
I used a Speartech wiring harness which made things easier, but as you can see, wiring in the gauges and fans was still a mess...
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I set it in with the K member out, then bolted the K member under it, I couldnt get the car high enough to pull it from underneath.
The controversial steam tube.. I hooked it up, why not? I simply threaded a fitting in my stock 3rd gen radiator and put a nipple in.
K member clearance turned out okay using an Energy Suspension trans mount the oil pan squeaks by..
Idler arm clearance wasnt an issue for me, and the Gates Hose fits okay, it just looks too long...
The rear axle is from the donor 2002 SS, its the Auburn Posi with 3.42 gears and an AAM girdle cover.
I learned the hard way, dont get the Spohn transmission crossmember with the driveshaft safety loop if you have an aftermarket drive shaft. It wont fit, my driveshaft was rubbing.
Installed an SLP line lock, pay close attention to the length on the tires marks left on the road, and also, when I am coming back towards the camera it is roasting the tires again, I did a 180 but you cant see it through the smoke....
That's a sweet conversion. Congrats on it. How's it run?
Judging by his vids that he has posted Ide say it runs pretty darn decent!!!
Great job on the swap! Looks like it came out pretty sweet! Whats your exhaust set up? It sounds pretty tight... I see mainifolds, and I thought I saw what looks like a 4th gen cat in the one pic... Didnt hear a whole lot of rasp...thats my reason for asking.
Lets see what else... Was your car a 5speed or auto originally?
Again...nice work!
J.
__________________
ARE shortblock, Ross custom boost pistons, arp rod bolts, ARE ported oil pump,
MTI 2e 5.3L ported heads milled .030 with double springs,
228/224 113+1 Comp XE-R, Cloyes adjustable timing chain, LS6 valley cover,
fast 90mm intake, NW 90mm throttle body, SVO 30lb injectors, 85mm MAF,
ASP underdrive pulley, 160* t-stat, stainless LT headers 1.75" primaries
My car was originally a 5 speed, in 2001 I swapped over to a 6 speed. I am using the stock 2002 manifolds for now. I read they flow as well as any set of shorty headers. I am not runnning any cats, (just a hollowed out 3inch) it goes into 3 inch exhaust all the way back into a 2 chambered Flowmaster with a single 3 inch tip on the left side. I was thinking of swapping to a Loudmouth muffler with a dump over the axle because I am not running headers yet. I am going to do headers next year, just wanted to work out all the bugs first. I would say, like any third gen converted to an LS1, its a sleeper. People immediately assume its a TPI car.
Last edited by Bradlyj8Z28; 03-27-2008 at 08:49 AM.
__________________ '99 TA 'vert: LS1/A4/2.73's, 11's/315's out back, Borla & SLP lid, my current DD. '91 GTA: LS2/A3/9", 645RWHP, 9.81 @ 138, my old DD. -Jeremy-
Looks good I would LOVE to see pictures of the wiring where it connects from the LS1 harness to the factory 3rdgen harness.
Pictures would be so nice as opposed to a text file talking about what splices to what!
Also I was wondering will the ls1/t56 bolted together drop in with the stock k-member in place or will it bind at the oil pan/k-member and firewall before they clear?
Looks good I would LOVE to see pictures of the wiring where it connects from the LS1 harness to the factory 3rdgen harness.
Pictures would be so nice as opposed to a text file talking about what splices to what!
Also I was wondering will the ls1/t56 bolted together drop in with the stock k-member in place or will it bind at the oil pan/k-member and firewall before they clear?
If I could do my swap over again i would have taken more pictures of the wiring but its done so it will have to wait for next time.
As for the engine dropping in together? I did manage to squeak it in there all in one but I had an overhead crane on a dolly and an engine tilter. It took three of us to do it without nicking the paint. One had to pull from below to get it to clear under the firewall and one to operate the life and one to guide it in from the top. Its a real SOB of a job but it is doable.
Im still convinced going in/out through the bottom with the k-member attached is the best way... assuming you have an engine hoist, which you should if you are pullin engines. Just goofing around, a buddy and me lifted the entire front of the donor car up by ourselves while the k-member was unbolted. Its really rather "light" up front.
Hey...might as well mention it real fast... Ill be doing my swap over again pretty much 100%. Except for the re-wiring and all the custom work. So if anyone has anything they'd like pics of or write ups on... let me know!
No argument here about dropping the car over it would be easy to do it that way a whole lot less muscle required. In my case it was not an option though as I had the engine in and out a few times for mock up and the car was on high stands so from above was the ticket.
Hey...might as well mention it real fast... Ill be doing my swap over again pretty much 100%. Except for the re-wiring and all the custom work. So if anyone has anything they'd like pics of or write ups on... let me know!
Where are you guys doing most of your connections? Under the passenger dash where the old ecm used to be or??
Just a nice high res pic of that would be awesome.
It's 10x easier to look at a pick and go ok the green wire with the white line on the ls1 harness goes to the tan wire with the black line on the old harness vs. pin 43 connects to a3
I have connections all over the place but mainly from the C100 connector ( under the brake booster ) and the LS1 fuse box I installed. If you look at the sticky at the very end theres a link with pics of my set up and an explanation of how I did it. By using the LS1 fuse box very little needed to be connected from there to the LS1 PCM it all just plugs in like stock. The actual connections are scattered all around to bring all the wires up to that fuse box I put in so thats where the actual splicing occurs. The connections to my car are all just wire added on to get it to reach out there is all. Hope that made sense
Aaron- All you had to do was ask me. Tim and I did mine and it turned out great... looks factory. We used the LS1's main connections and kept the weatherpacks... we cut after them (body side, no PCM side) and ran them inside the car through the passenger side fender and kicker panel to where the stock TPI ECM was. We also kept the stock 3rd gen harness under the dash so basically I could unhook the LS1 harness and put a stock TPI harness back in. Come over sometime and look at what you want to.
From what I understand, the SD cars had a one piece underhood harness (engine and body together) so we basically had to split my stock harness and kept a few things (dash gauge wire for oil pressure, water temp, etc). We also kept the stock 3rd gen relays (fuel pump, fans, etc) and used the LS1 PCM to trigger them on. The wiring was actually pretty straightforward and somewhat simple (thanks to Tim).
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Also, you can install the motor/trans as one unit from above. I've done it multiple times (with my 346 and 402)... even a few times by myself with a cherry picker.
Usually I have the motor/trans together with no intake on it but with all the front accessories on it, drop it in from top at a pretty steep angle, and in the middle of doing it I drop the headers down in the K-member (Hawks SWLT's), and then when its close just hook up the motor mounts and headers. Its pretty easy to do. I even keep the radiator in the car... its a tight squeeze as one big unit but very doable. Dropping it out the bottom (like a 4th gen) is just extra and unnecessary work IMHO.
__________________ '99 TA 'vert: LS1/A4/2.73's, 11's/315's out back, Borla & SLP lid, my current DD. '91 GTA: LS2/A3/9", 645RWHP, 9.81 @ 138, my old DD. -Jeremy-
Last edited by GTA91; 03-27-2008 at 03:48 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
My harness has the main PCM connectors in through the firewall. Then the white and blue plug goes in through the fender where the stock 3rd gen wires went. Everything else is plug and play just like the 4th gen. I used the 4th gen fuse boxes, and the plugs are in the same general location as the 4th gen engine bay. Just hidden better. The only wires that I actually tapped into on my car were the start wires, and the A/C wire for the A/C request signal. Everything else is pretty much all 4th gen wiring. When I remove everything, Ill have to unplug the engine harness just like in a 4th gen, then for the connections that I did make, they are weather packs...so it will all just come right out. no fuss, no muss.
Very Clean Swap! I hope mine looks that good, I am contemplating doing the wiring myself, did you try that 1st or did you plan on going through Speartech?
I'm not sure who your asking but at first i was going to use Speartech but I just couldn't get an exact straight understanding of what he was going to do and the price seemed absurdly high to me so I thought why not try it? If it doesn't work out I can always buy a harness afterwards. It was a lot easier than I expected the only real trick is just organizing and labeling every single wire so you can determine what you need to hook up and what you need to eliminate.
I mean its not hard to know you need a wire for the volt gauge, one for the starter from the key switch.. hmmm whats this purple one here? aha thats it. A/C request goes to? speedo wire goes to? etc its not that hard its the mapping that takes the time.
It was a lot easier than I expected the only real trick is just organizing and labeling every single wire so you can determine what you need to hook up and what you need to eliminate.
..... its not that hard its the mapping that takes the time.
BINGO! Its all in the prep. Take your time, double check before you remove wires, make sure that when you remove something, you arent taking power away from another circuit. Its pretty much cake with a decent wiring diagram.
I understand why speartech charges so much. Wiring scares the crap out of some people. And he offers an almost 100% plug and play solution for anyone to follow. That means its worth something. I still couldnt afford to get it though. haha. And Im sorta glad I didnt, beacuse now I have fuse blocks and relays and plugs and it all looks factory.
Yeah Jeremy, I have to check yours out! Let me know when.
I think the confusing part for those that haven't done it is there is no standard answer from those that have.
Some guys are using the 4th gen fuse box, some aren't. Some are splicing in to the 3rd gen light harness some are using the 4thgen, some are keeping the 3rd gen starter wires, some are going all 4th gen. Some got the 4th gen fuel tank and regulator, some don't.
Yeah Jeremy, I have to check yours out! Let me know when.
I think the confusing part for those that haven't done it is there is no standard answer from those that have.
Some guys are using the 4th gen fuse box, some aren't. Some are splicing in to the 3rd gen light harness some are using the 4thgen, some are keeping the 3rd gen starter wires, some are going all 4th gen. Some got the 4th gen fuel tank and regulator, some don't.
Thats mainly because there are so many differences in our cars to begin with. My car was a factory carb car with a mechanical fuel pump. There was no fuel system relays, fuses or wiring to re-use so I had to add all of those. Made sense to upgrade the tank as well and I though why not use the LS1 fuses/relays while I'm at it? They are top quality and for certain rated for the job. So thats where my decision came from.
Third gens varied vastly over the years with regards to wiring. Theres carbs, TBI's, TPIs, V6, 4cyl, all with unique wiring so its impossible to say "connect these LS1 wires to these third gen wires" and your done.
This is why you dont find what you want to see. But as each of us goes through it and posts up most all versions have been done before and there is enough info to get an idea and enough support to get you through to the end. So once again as I said you just need to map out all your wires and label them. Then decide what you want to keep and what you want to ditch.
For instance if you just want to run the thing hook up all the pink and red wires to + and supply fuel, disable VATS and it will run fine. Now the choice is yours whether you want to hook up a temp gauge, volt gauge, reverse lights, etc etc. Its not that difficult but you do have to map out your third gen car wiring and the wiring from your donor engine. Then its about choices the method is simple.
Thats mainly because there are so many differences in our cars to begin with.
But as each of us goes through it and posts up most all versions have been done before and there is enough info to get an idea and enough support to get you through to the end. So once again as I said you just need to map out all your wires and label them. Then decide what you want to keep and what you want to ditch.
For instance if you just want to run the thing hook up all the pink and red wires to + and supply fuel, disable VATS and it will run fine.
Yeah... what he said. Its somewhat simple because the LS1 harness is already basically a stand alone harness.
Great swap, and one that I am contemplating, the catch is my car is RHD so the wireing is already messed with. I guess it is time to learn how to read a wiring diagram........
Ugh I was going to do the LT1 Swap from the Current TBI..... But this is SO much Nicer!!! and I gotta do it... but Im going to school and dont have near enough money. My instructor at school told me to swap with a 5.3L silverado engine..
I chose a Mustang dyno because I did not want inflated results.
This is a basically stock 2002 LS1 rated at 330 hp.
For those that dont know;
Mustang dynos reproduce real world conditions and drag to simulate being on the road. They take into account vehicle weight and such, dynos such as dynojet do not, they give you actual HP numbers to the wheels. This looks good, but I wanted to know what kind of power I was making on the street.
My car sitting on the dyno....
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Okay, so with sea level correction, my car made 285hp and 300ft lbs.
I dont think that is bad for a stock engine rated at 330hp, if you figure 15% drivetrain loss its right on target....
The car was data logged during my run, I was concerned with knock because my car has an undertermined vibration, at WOT it was 22 degrees to 5600 RPM when I shut down my run. I was told this was normal.
I was also told my A/f ratio was dead on target for a stock tune.
I am fairly happy, I think after I descreen my MAF, and make my "cold air intake" a true cold air intake, I should be around 300rwhp. I will be happy until I finish everything else, then its on to a head and cam package. I figure not to bad for a 3 week swap with no follow on issues. I have been driving it daily since completion without incident.
Thought I would share with everyone, I drove my car to South Carolina from Texas, about 1100 miles. It ran great and I had no problems, I also got about 29mpg at between 75-80mph.
Thought I would share with everyone, I drove my car to South Carolina from Texas, about 1100 miles. It ran great and I had no problems, I also got about 29mpg at between 75-80mph.
What are the rpms at in 6th gear at 75mph?? Excellent swap. If you dont mind sharing, whats the price tag? Where the pcm located? Did you buy the whole donor car?
__________________ 1992 Chevorlet Camaro RS 25th Anniversary
3.1L V6 191ci
K&N filter, new custom exhaust 2.5" downpipe from manifolds back, cat delete, Flowmaster 80's series muffler.
Audio: Alpine CDE-9881 deck, Lanzar Opti500X2, 2 12" SWR-1222D Alpine Type R.
SOON LSx/T-56 swap If I get the money !
What are the rpms at in 6th gear at 75mph?? Excellent swap. If you dont mind sharing, whats the price tag? Where the pcm located? Did you buy the whole donor car?
My tach is off because I havent gotten it calibrated yet, it read about 2500rpms but was prolly about 1600-1800. I bought the engine/trans with all accessories, ecu and wiring, plus auburn read end with girdle for 4.5k. Which is a little cheaper than others I have seen online because it is an 02 model out of an Anniversary edition SS Camaro. It also only has 28k on it.
The Ecu is in the factory location in my dash thanks to my Speartech wiring harness. I say I guess I did everything for around $6000. I could have bought another car, or done something awsome to my old engine, but it really throws people for a loop when they find out I have an LS1.
I chose a Mustang dyno because I did not want inflated results.
This is a basically stock 2002 LS1 rated at 330 hp.
For those that dont know;
Mustang dynos reproduce real world conditions and drag to simulate being on the road. They take into account vehicle weight and such, dynos such as dynojet do not, they give you actual HP numbers to the wheels. This looks good, but I wanted to know what kind of power I was making on the street.
Not sure what you're getting at here - a vehicle's weight has nothing to do with how much power/torque the engine makes, nor does drag. If two LT1 drivetrains (just as an example) are configured identically, but one's in a Camaro, & the other's in an Impala SS, then they should put down near-identical numbers on the same dyno on the same day...
Yes, weight & drag have a significant effect on qtr-mile times & trap speeds, but my understanding is that a dyno just measures the power that's getting to the wheels...
(And yes, a Mustang dyno is generally considered to be more "accurate" or "real world" than a Dynojet, no argument there.)
Not sure what you're getting at here - a vehicle's weight has nothing to do with how much power/torque the engine makes, nor does drag. If two LT1 drivetrains (just as an example) are configured identically, but one's in a Camaro, & the other's in an Impala SS, then they should put down near-identical numbers on the same dyno on the same day...
Yes, weight & drag have a significant effect on qtr-mile times & trap speeds, but my understanding is that a dyno just measures the power that's getting to the wheels...
(And yes, a Mustang dyno is generally considered to be more "accurate" or "real world" than a Dynojet, no argument there.)
Everything I have read makes sense, it simulates real word conditions for the streel. There are ALOT of post on this subject also, this is a good one. Pay special attention to the fourth post down, he explains it well.
Is that the GTO K&N cold air kit??? If so, it looks like it fits pretty darn good! How bout a couple more pics of how it fits in there and all??
Great work again on the car man. Glad to hear you are enjoying it and its working good for ya.
J.
Here are a couple of the engine bay, I had to take out the washer bottle, but I am going to put a smaller washer bottle and overflow up front under where the stock filters were. I am also going to add a 40 degree elbow and angle the filter towards where the cruise used to be. I also have the partition that keeps the engine heat off the filter I still need to put on also.
man! I have an ls1 and t56 sitting next to my camaro! hmmmm.... its for the other Z tho.... maybe I could just get another one.... I think the girl would kill me but it almost seems like it would be worth it!
The seats are from an 01 WS6 and have the six way power and dual lumber on both seats...
I have the window switches just sitting where the ashtray would normally be, the extra switch is for the line lock. The Monsoon stereo and console are from the same SS donor vehicle I got my engine from. The console is a direct swap. The Monson stereo actually hooked up to the factory '91 stereo wiring with no modification. The floor mat looks rough, but they are the factory original. I cant find any factory replacements, they all say, Camaro or Z28, I want ones that are made for my car (stupid cat hump) and that simply say GM at the top.
I need to clean it, I have just been so busy. Its funny, I actually used wall anchors to mount the radio pod. The pod is from an 86 or so Firebird. Other than needing to make a beauty plate for the front, the pod looks like it was meant to be there.
I added a 45 degree elbow to put the filter closer to the fender. Now I just need to build a cold air block off so the engine heat wont soak the filter.
Scan gauge that reads everything that my computer outputs. Also has a performance mode and data logger that records 60 seconds of data when wide open trottle is applied. The performance mode records 0-60, 1/8 and 1/4 mile. They say it has a .1 margin of error. I did 0-60 in 4.1, and the 1/4 in 13.2. Not bad for a stock LS1. I am going to take it to the track to see if the numbers are accurate.
I think the black on top looks sinister. I've received allot of props on streetfire. It looked like poop with the clear coat coming off. I am of the mindset, go fast first then make it pretty. I dump alloted of cash on the swap, I am pacing myself. Besides, people really underestimate it as an old worn out TPI camaro....
I do however have another video, me racing a 2001 Corvette. I look pretty fast next to him, but once he learns to drive it, he has only had it for a few days, he should outrun me. If you guys have a Streetfire account, leave some comments on my videos.
!
Man that is awsome. 
