cam-

Now that spring is not so distant I am planning the seasons mods and a few things popped in my head that I would have done differently if I was to start again from scratch so I thought it might make an interesting thread to hear what others have tried/done and wanted to change or wish they hadn't. I made two huge Gaffs that I wish I didnt bother with and many other little ones.

1. For starters I would have definitely bought a complete wreck to harvest my engine and trans from. Without a doubt the biggest headaches I had were from buying a "complete" LS1, t56, harness, accessories as there were many bits and pieces that I did not get ( nor think of at the time of purchase ) and those bits and pieces slowed me down a lot and created much confusion along the way.

2. Tuning suite. I should have bought one right from the get go this should be considered an essential part of the swap budget. I was a bit gun shy about this when I did my swap as I really was unsure on how to operate the tuning software plus I dont have a PC laptop and I wanted it to be tuned perfectly and then just drive it. Instead I opted for a dyno tune from a local shop and it cost me the same as buying the tuning suite would have ( HP tuners, EFI live etc. ) and the tuner did a good job for power but because I drove to the dyno none of my cold start tables were adjusted and as a result until the O2's light off my car runs rough until it warms up. This happens quickly but it is frustrating. The overall drive ability while good is not perfect and this takes a lot more time to tweak than a tuner can accomplish on a dyno in 4 hrs. Plus I have since the tune made some minor mods and now need to redo my A/F and that puts me back to wishing I bought the software initially and went at it myself which is what I am doing now. Plus after watching a few tunes being done I can say its not that difficult with LS1's provided you understand the science of what the engine wants. I have tuned many carb set ups to cherry pie sweetness so the only issue is understanding the new terms and tables to do these same tasks digitally and I can say through HPtuners this looks to be pretty straight forward. Most of us dont have endless coin to spend on our rides so I kind of wasted the dough on the dyno tune that has had issues ( my fault entirely but issues nonetheless ) instead of investing in something that I need to have and learn anyways so I am now jumping in.


3. Info was hard to come by back then hence the sticky which I hope helps. Anyways I'm curious about what any of y'all have done and wish they didnt or didnt do and wish they did.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I would have, and did do a couple things differently. No particular order...

1) I would have modified my k-member to give more oil pan clearance. I didnt do it the first time...and sadly, I didnt do it well enough the second time. This spring, Im pulling the k-member, and cutting/welding a notch in the thing so I can stick my finger in between there and the pan. Its SOOOO close right now that I think its hitting under load. Bad stuff.

2) I would have taken a LITTLE more care with my wiring harness. Especially with routing. Also with my gauges...which I tried to make modular so Ide be able to pull them easily. But I didnt quite accomplish that.

3) One thing I did get to re-do was the e-brake cable bracket that goes under the car. I welded it in place instead of bolting this time.

4) I would have purchased the Tick Master cylinder...which wasnt available, so it wasnt my fault. But I wouldnt waste another dollar on GM hydraulics.

5) USE thirdgen pedals...which I did the second time. MUCH better.

6) First go around I bought the Stainless Works y-pipe. Which was a nightmare and a mistake. Second time around I built my own trans crossmember and my own y-pipe...which works fantastic and looks 100x better.

7) Other than that...I would have just spent some more time cleaning the motor up. Its harder now that its in the car.

Im pretty much set though. Just the little odd ball stuff. The info when I started was pretty decent. I mainly just needed wiring info. Since I used the 4th gen fuse blocks, my whole set up was pretty much ready to go. If I think of something else...Ill add to the list.

J.

J's T/A

iTrader: (2)

Was that the f-body oilpan that you used ghettocruiser?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Yes sir. I could have been non-lazy and moved the motor mounts back some. But I HATE elongating holes. So I lived with it. This second time, I took the grinder to the k-member...but actually went through in a couple tiny spots. So, Ill do it right this spring. Third time's a charm.

J.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I probably haven't gotten far enough to really know. I hope I'm at least half way done with the work, and more than half way done calendar-wise.

I didn't think I wanted to get an entire car again like I did with Berlinetta #1 for the V6 to V8 swap. All my reading indicated parts would do the job. I didn't have pedals or electric radiator fans, so I figured I'd ask for those when I got the engine/transmission. I don't have anything to compare the pedals to, so I'll have to take the word of others that 3rd gen would be better (but my car was built before hydraulic clutch was available, so I don't know how much difference that makes). I already regret the 4th gen radiator fans (anyone want to swap for their 3rd gen dual fans in good condition?).

I still don't know if the AC compressor relocation was a good idea.

And I still don't know where I'm mounting the PCM.

Can I get back to you on this???

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

I am guessing this has o do with the clutch and not the brake
This was your experience with a manual tran. and not Automatic 4L60E right ?

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

whats your experience with 4th gen dual fans?

the ac comprossor thing does it have to do with that bracket u got off ebay right ? whays wrong ? cleareamce issues ?

maybe elobrate on these two.

i was thinking of going the same route on these 2 items

macdadyZ28

iTrader: (1)

I would have put the computer in under the passenger dash.

I would have spent the extra cash to make my exhaust system a little better (y-pipe setup with a better ride height).

I would have fixed the steering / suspension up front before putting the motor in.

I would have CLEANED everything lol

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

They mount differently. I picked up a 3rd gen upper mount, since I had a manual fan shroud, and it won't work with the 4th gen fans.

Right.

I don't know that anything is "wrong". But, it may get in the way of the radiator overflow tank and/or may prevent mounting the PCM to the fender there.

cam-

Ghetto I never had any issues with the clearance there. Its tight but not too tight that its a problem... Although it is a real bugger to squeeze the engine passed there during installation. I made my own mounts though and bolted the horseshoes to the engine and bolted the plates to the k-member and bolted the engine/trans together and lowered the whole thing in, mounted the driveshaft on the diff and slid it into the yoke and then I slid the engine/trans as far back as I could without bottoming out the output shaft, lowered it, leveled it, then tacked the horseshoes to the plates
. Long story there i know but it was super easy and no clearance issues now. Yeah man that first y-pipe of yours? Legendary thread LOL I bet that thread pretty much stopped the sales of them things right then and there!

five7 as for the fans? heck I'm running a stock third gen single fan and it never heats up at all so if your having troubles with those fourth gen ones ditch em.

macdady yeah the underdash mount PCM is nice. Also the exhaust tucked is mandatory on these cars even before with previous engine set ups I was having grief scraping over speed bumps and the like.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I need something. Right now I have an upper radiator mount to hold the radiator in place, but no fan. So far I haven't seen an aftermarket fan that would cost less than a used dual fan.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

As for my swap, theirs tons i would have done different:

1. Fuel system. Would consist of a 3/8" Hard line to the start of the firewall, then -an up to the rail,with a 1/8npt for a fuel pressure gauge in it.

2. Wiring, this would be massively different, would run the wiring clean through the engine bay, and then have the computer hidden inside the car.

3. Exhaust would be tucked tighter, and would use a double hump crossmember w/ a 6spd

4. Intake elbow - Way different, mine was the cheapest thing ever, would design it to get some legit cold air in.

Thats the basics, its hard for me to just throw down everything id do different, need to get the chance to and then write down everything i did hahah

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

This is what I might might change in my plans of what to do when I do my swap. I have the engine and am now collecting parts.
C5 LS1 on stand.
T56 operational in car with my current 383 L98.

I WAS going to get the hyd front plate for the T56 and use the stock LS1 Gen 4 setup. Here, and in some other recents posts I see that idea MAY not be the best.

I have the early Gen 3 manual clutch, so I have a clean slate. What should I look at instead of buying the GM T56 front plate, and the Tick Master??

Thanks....

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Yup...T56 all the way for me. Couldnt pay me to install an auto in my car at this point.

Cam: I sort of wish I built my own motor mounts. However...I like how much room I have behind my motor. Im always fiddling with ground straps or fishing new wires down there. haha. Also, I felt that if it were moved back any, it would have caused issues using the 4th gen A/C set up. But...the mounts I got might get modified alittle bit this spring...even though my main project will be to notch and weld the k-member. Of course pictures will follow of that and the other mods I have planned

Flip...No clue what you are talking about. haha. Are you referring to swapping the LT1 T56 over to LS1 standards? If so...Ide just sell off the trans you have and pick up an LS1 trans. Unless you dumped a ton of money into it. Get yourself an LS7 clutch. Cheap and strong. And as for the master cylinder...there is only one person I know of that has a Tick master cylinder in a thirdgen...but I havent talked to them and cant even confirm they have it installed yet. So we dont even know if they fit...as far as I know. I hope to order one and put it in as soon as the weather breaks. If it works as it should, ide say hands down is the only master cylinder ANY LS f-body should have in it.

J.

Flip 2

iTrader: (1)

G-cruiser-
As always, it will be interesting to hear of your adventures.
RE my tranny: Amber, at (now x-) Six Speeds told me I would need an input shaft and a face plate to change my T56 over. I got it new, and there are only around 15,000 miles on it. I think I'll take the hassle of changing it over the buy/sell/not sure what you got hassle.
Thanks for the LS7 clutch heads up.
My question was wondering if there is different approach, one that avoids the LS1 4th gen throw out bearing setup.

89rsragtop

My conversion was done by Hawks. I am very happy with it. Just two items that could be different.
First ,the Spohn transmission cross member causes you to route the left side exhaust too low to get under it. At the time of the swap it was the only one on the market. If I had to do again today ,the double hump header style cross member is the way to go.
Second, we used a TPI intake to try to give it a factory look under the hood. It is too restrictive for an LS1. It runs fine ,but according to the experts at Vette Doctors it is costing me between 15-20 hp on their dyno.
I hope this will help others with their plans.

razor

1) Keep A/C

2) Tubular K member or notch factory K for clearance on oil pan

3) Did a "Justin" mod and drill hole in tranny tunnel to route hydraulic clutch line to slave for T56

4) Spent good money on proper exhaust. FYI Mufflex should now have a y-pipe for ls1 swapped 3rd gens with LT's

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

haha...sweet do I officially have a "mod" named after me???

Running the hyd. line inside was a tad of a pain...but I KNOW that thing isnt getting cooked. It saved me a ton of hassle since now I dont have to wrap it up like a mummy in heat protection. Gives more room under the car where the other lines run too. 3/4" hole saw, couple 3/4" grommets and alittle rtv and youre set.

J.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I think so man! You were the "pioneer" for that mod, so you should get the credit! (I'm thinking of doing the same thing, I just wish that I'd remembered BEFORE my firewall got all of that nice, shiny paint... )

Getting back to the original topic for this thread, you guys are making me kind of nervous about the clearance between the K-frame & the oil pan. I beat on mine a fair bit using my 4-lb. mini-sledge, but I just don't know if it'll be enough... You've got me wondering if I should section it a bit & weld a new piece in...

I guess I'll find out when I drop the engine in...

razor

I found that my pinion angle affected how close to the k member the oil pan was. I also found out my pinion angle was way out as nobody had ever measured and shimmed, they just bolted the tranny mount to the Drews xmember and assumed it was close. Right now I currently built a solid spacer 7/16 inch thick to get the angle I wanted.

I also found that under hard accel the pass side of the pan was making contact with the k mmeber when I bought the car.

Poly mounts and a correct pinion angle fixed the problem. The poly motor and tranny mounts also corrected the problem of the exhaust pipe touching the pass rear floor pan even though my clearance is now less that 1/2 inch to keep the exhaust tucked away properly for clearance.

Space is stil tight but it is no longer an issue and I was able to get rid of all the false knock as well.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Any pictures of this by any chance?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Your pinion angle should in no way shape or form affect the relationship of the oil pan to the k-member.... Your k-member fit should be established and set with the motor and trans mounted and sitting as it would normally sit. I.E. no jacks holding it no hoists holding it. If your pinion angle is moving your drivetrain...thats not good. Im guessing you have a stock torque arm? That isnt supposed to have a load on it while the car is just sitting there. Alteast not enough that it would lift up on the rear of the trans, and change the pan/k-member clearance. Not raggin on your set up at all..just sayin something sounds weird there...

Im also not a fan of changing pinion angle by adding trans mount shims. If you want to mess with pinion angle, you really should have an adjustable torque arm. Im also not the hugest fan of trans mounted torque arm mounts. I know thats the way they were built etc etc. I just feel like the suspension shouldnt be prying on the aluminum transmission. BUT...you are running a drews crossmember. So of course there could be inconsistencies with that. Spacing up the trans might be neccessary. I have a 1/8" shim under mind, until I can notch my k-member.

With that said...I agree with you on the poly mounts making things better. Im sure that if I were running rubber mounts, not only would my pan be sitting on the k-member, but it would smack it violently under accelleration. Right now, I think the right corner of my pan is tapping the k-member while accellerating. Its very annoying. Doesnt seem to be causing false knock, but I havent fully scanned the car yet. Just going by what my scan gauge is telling me.

Personally...I think all the LSx swap cars ought to have poly motor mounts at the least. I run poly motor and trans. In fact, the only rubber left on my car is the tires. haha. Almost everything is poly.

Im going to do a full write up on my k-member mods when I do them. I think that if you arent building your own motor mounts, you should definatly look into notching the k-member for the oil pan on an LS swap. Just to be safe.

J.

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

Have to be honest, there is very little I would do different.

Mine was a manual going in to an auto car and a Mcleod master cylinder made a world of difference at WOT shifting.
I probably would have used this from day one, but swapping it in didn't require removing the power train or anything.

Other then that I would mod the heck out of it while it was still on the engine stand.
I didn't want to do it because I was concerned if for some reason it didn't run right after the swap I'd be second guessing myself if it was the mods or the wiring or what?
Screw it, next time it gets a cam before it goes in.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Would that be the $360 unit?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Which one are you seeing for $360? The McLeod is $328.99 and the Tick is $339.99...although right now its on GP over on tech for $299 I placed my order for that sucker about 3 seconds after seeing there was a GP. Just want to make sure there isnt another brand I dont know about.

J.

razor

I should have been more specific in saying the intitial driveline angle was pooched due to the Drews Xmember or possibly an early 1st round of Spohn motor mounts as the car was started in early 05. IIRC my initial driveline starting point was -6 degrees. I could have hacked up the xmember but found that once I added the 7/16 solid spacer between the tranny mount and K member I was able to achieve a zero degree driveline angle.

My differential had a -1 with the LCA's set thus thats how it operates now. It was coincidental that driveline geometry corrected pinion angle but in my case it worked very good. It felt like much less bind on the car under hard accel or launching it.

This spring when I get my car back out of storage my intention is to follow Cam's giudeline and move the torque arm mount off the tailshaft and onto the xmember directly. I am happy with pinion anlge and do not plan too much more on suspension as its 99 percent done.

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

Yeah but I just bought it slighty used for like $175.

What choice do you have.
I could granny shift the stock master but faster then that it would grind before engaging.

With the McLeod i have never had it shift anything less then perfect at WOT.
Worth every penny too me.

cam-

Poly mounts here too. Should be considered pretty much essential if you want to tuck your exhaust and not have it rub and bang everything underneath. I run 1'4" clearance from my pipes to the drews crossmember and a few other places as well with no rubbing but I am FULL poly every bushing in the car or I'm sure it would be hitting everywhere.

Aaron as for being gun shy about mods at first I was in the exact same boat. I was originally planning to just drop the LS1 in stock, get it running and driving and the bugs worked out for the first season then pull it and mod it. Well I ran into serious time issues that first year so it sat apart the entire season. After more and more research I decided to hell with it and went mod crazy anyways and it really didnt make things any harder to dial in so agreed.

Mod away before dropping in is a good tip.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Cam... 1'4" of clearance huh? I sure hope you dont have any rubbing!!! (being a smart you know what)

Razor..I got ya now. I think I over thought your post, wasnt nec. your explanation. I didnt realize the drews had your driveline so screwy. I bought that crossmember, and never even bolted it in.

With my custom one, I couldnt put any more of a shim under the mount or the trans would have been hitting the tunnel. I think I just flat out have clearance issues with the oil pan and where the spohn mounts plopped my motor.

J.

cam-

Yeah man its tucked up in there as tight as I could. I had to clearance the pipe in a couple places after the first few heat cycles it pulled around the pieces a little but she good now no banging and no grinding over speed bumps. I'm running sportlines so shes super low and the trans crossmember and the K member are my lowest points the exhaust is up higher

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The McLeod MC is $360 from Summit. I didn't check other sources.

The Ram adjustable is $175.

Are you saying granny shifting even with the drill mod?

cam-

Stock new GM hydraulics. I did the drill mod and rev'd the snot out of my car many many times and never had a problem shifting mine until near the end of last season. I got lazy doing the fluid change and i think thats my issue. It might be the LS7 pressure plate though theres been a few guys complaining of the same issues I have running them. I've been reading threads about the self adjusting aspect causing grief over time if you run them hard ( lots of heat )

7K dumps on slicks hard? Blah

razor

Hmmm, how many miles on your LS7 setup?? I have just about 3K miles on mine. Rev limiter set to 6700 and stock GM hydraulics with drill mod. I missed two gears and both were my fault. I thought my car was okay until I got to row the gears on a totally stock 4th gen. My conclusion is I must be lucky so far because my shifts were smooth and percise with no effort to find gears in upper RPM's compared to a stock clutch with stock hydraulics minus the drill mod.

I change my resivior fluid every 5-10 WOT runs tho which might mean once a night in the summer but so far zero issues with high RPM shifts.

EDIT: what fluid do you run in the tranny and the hydraulics?? I run DOT4 synthetic and Synchomesh. The guy before me had an addiction to royal purple. I drained the tranny fluid after maybe 3500 miles when I first got the GTA. There were small pieces of paper from the synchros in the oil already at that point. The car shifted very notchy, but 4 liters of synchromesh seemed to be agreat bandaid until I can afford to upgrade forks, output shaft, synchros, ect. hopefully next winter.

cam-

I've run the LS7 for two full seasons I'd guess 15k kms so quite a bit. Typically in other stick cars I have run including the previous LT1 t56 I would smoke a clutch per season I just got used to that being the norm. The fact that I managed two full seasons out of the LS7 and the fact that I have so many track passes on it and I'm surprised its still grabbing so well. Its not slipping at all nor does the pedal feel any different than it did from day one. Only issue is now under wot shifts when I try for third the pedal sticks to the floor. I used to change out the hydraulic fluid all the time but got lazy last year and I suspect this is my problem as the fluid was black. I did change it a couple times at the end of the year and I "think: it improved but I cant say for sure. Trans fluid I run Mobil 1 but I've never been happy with the smoothness of it so I'm going to switch to regular Dex3 a lot of other dudes seem to be having luck with that lately so I'm going to try that. Flush my hydraulics a few times more and hope it fixes me back up. If not then Tick master, if still no good then its new clutch time and I'm looking at Southbend.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I dont have that many miles on my LS7 set up. Maybe a couple thousand. 3000 at the most. I dont know where my rev limiter is set. haha. I shift at around 7000-7100 if Im really wringing the car out. I never have issues actually getting into gear at high RPM shifts. I never had problems with the SPEC 3 clutch that was in the car the first time.

My problem isnt getting into gear, its just the way it goes into gear. Very notchy and it feels like total crap. And thats intermittent. Same with my pedal effort. Sometimes it feels like it has air in it, and other times its light as a feather and the car shifts like butter. Then outta no where, it'll go back to feeling like poops. TONS of bleeding, new parts all around, new "special" fluid, adjustments, more bleeding...to no avail. So...tick's master cylinder is my last ditch effort to have a GOOD shifting T56 LS1 swap car. haha.

And you can believe it when I tell you...if the TICK fixes my clutch problems, Ill be stating a thread and It'll be in all bright red flashing CAPS. haha.

five7kid: Ah...sorry, I sort of default to only a couple sites for LS1 parts. Summit usually isnt one of them as they seem to be on the high side. I had a RAM unit, and in my opinion, its worthless. Just a stocker with an adjustable rod welded on... Not even any internal mods on the one I had anyway. Expected the internal stop to be trimmed, and it wasnt. It doesnt push more fluid, which is what the TICK does and why it seems to work so well.

J.

cam-

I hear that if this fixes you up I'm on Xpress delivery and I'll start a thread with flashing green caps. Green means GO after all

Anyways was this notchiness present with the Spec3 as well or is this issue only since the LS7 clutch swap? Mines always been a bit notchy too but I have no previous comparo to go by

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

My notchiness was there even with the spec. However, it started to smooth out alittle. I replaced my hydraulics, and it seemed to drive pretty good. However, I dont know if you saw the pictures of my Spec clutch when I removed it, but it was pretty worn. I had to slip the heck out of it due to the alum flywheel, and I think I just abused it too much. My swap car, was my first manual trans daily driver. I could drive stick plenty good...but i went from DD autos all my life, to DD a fairly high horsepower 6speed with an aluminum flywheel. It was quite a learning curve. haha.

I used a brand new slave an a brand new stock GM master in the 86. Figuring Ide be set. Didnt work out as well as I hoped....

Anyway. The notchy feeling now bothers the heck out of me. Im really afraid that Im going to tear something up in my trans, even though it has all upgraded parts and should stand up to some hurt. I hope I havent already messed something up. The glimmer of light for me is, it still, on occasion, will shift like butter. I think its when the hydraulics feel like letting it shift good. From what I hear, the TICK is supposed to be super consistent with pedal feel. Thats going to be a good thing.

J.

cam-

I've been doing quite a bit of research into this since I started having grief and a lot of guys had notchy trannies, had them rebuilt, and the the notchiness was as bad or worse! So the good news here is I dont think your tearing up your internals or if you are we all are and I should also note that although so far there has been lots of praise theres already a thread or two going about the Tick master not fixing some guys troubles so the jury is still out on that one. I for one would completely appreciate if you bought one and tried it because I understand your capabilities and know what you will post about it is accurate. For all I know its just some dude whos never turned a wrench before that could be the guys squawking about the Tick master meanwhile its not installed or bled correctly.

Dang internets....

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, its not a fix it all solution. You need to rule out other issues like the slave cylinder, actual trans/clutch condition, etc etc. Some people dont bother to actually look into their problem, and just try to throw the most popular parts at it. Im faily confident my issues are purely hydraulic. The shifting feeling is fairly connected to ambient temp. When the fluid is cold and stiff, it seems to shift smoother. Im guessing because the fluid compresses a little less...giving me alittle more clutch release..?? Thats just random guessing.

So Im hoping with a GOOD non-cheap-plastic mastercylinder, that has the ability to push more fluid controllably, the situation will be much more predictable.

We shall see. Its going to be a while before I can try it. I wont even have the master cylinder til the 27th, and it need to warm up alittle before I mess with it.

J.

ml258-89iroc

keep them coming. this is good stuff. i am just starting. i am buying all the parts right now. i will start the swap in the spring. i just bought the car and i want to work out a few small issues before i begin. thanks

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

You think maybe a LT1 upper mount will work with the LS1 fan and radiator ?

If not , I guess or optin would be to get 3rd gen dual fan, upper and lower mount.
Your ahead of me there lol
but good thing is we can offer the LS1 dual fans for trade. I know a lot of LT1 guys and looking to get those.

89rsragtop

here is a photo