kcgperformance

I emailed Kooks today about LSx swap headers since they don't make them already. There is a huge void with people boycotting Hawks over the knock off scam. So I'm hoping Kooks is willing to use my car to prototype a set. Is there anyone else here with interest in these? The more interest the more likely we are to actually get them made.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Kooks makes some outstanding stuff, but to be honest, their prices are just way out of my league. They're likely to cost 2x what the Hawks/SW headers cost.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

after building my own sets of headers with mandrel bends, their prices for that level of quality and equal length headers with the very expensive collectors with the spike inside, are just about where they need to be. If you want a performance header to get everything out of the build, its going to cost some coin.

Slush92RS

iTrader: (6)

How big are we talking? I'm gonna need 1 7/8 for my beast, and I already choked when I saw $1100 for headers on Hawks page. My Hooker 2210's only cost me $600 and they were coated!!!!

Why does it cost double because of the "LS" factor????

kcgperformance

I asked about 1-7/8" primary headers, the quality stainless headers cost more because of the process required to weld them is more involved than mild steel, IE back gassing the tubing. And cost of stainless tubing is significantly higher than mild steel.

So the answer is yes a quality stainless header will always cost more than a coated mild steel piece. And NO eBay headers are not quality.

-Kevin

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Hawk's Stainless Works headers are also very high quality (assuming they don't slip you the chinese ones instead). I have no doubt that the Kooks are outstanding, but considering that nobody wants to pay for Hawks, how many do you think will pay for Kooks?

kcgperformance

Part of the reason for the cost of Hawks SW headers is the fact that hawks cornered the market by making SW agree not to sell them directly or though other venders besides Hawks. So if there was another quality stainless option such as Kooks it may bring the rice down slightly (but not much). Then again it may not have any affect on prices. But there's no reason not to want another option especially with Hawks' recent track record.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

If I needed another set or an upgrade from 1 3/4 primaries I'd be interested, or I'd just make my own.

RaverRacerX

seeing as how the community would like cost effective sets and not just super awesome quality.. i would have to say no.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

This is absolutely NOT TRUE at all. Look around, long tube stainless headers are all fairly close in price. All of the prices for headers on the Kooks page are all in line with the "Hawks" pricing. Just go look at the other headers on the Stainlessworks page, they are all around the same price as these conversion headers.

When will people grow up and open their eyes? Look around before you start spouting crap.

kcgperformance

I agree that a quality stainless header is not cheap. I did however find out today that Stainless works manufactures their headers in China, which explains the shoddy at best Y-pipes that come with their kits. So needless to say I'm definitely not going to buy the Hawks Stainless works headers.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

how did you find this out? i knew the 1 5/8 long tubes were china made but never heard the stainless works headers were

scooter

iTrader: (11)

They do NOT manufacture their headers in China as evidence in this post on NastyZ28.com

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

I have been under the impression that stainless works builds their products here in the USA. I remember seeing an episode of gears touring their facility not long ago.

However, there was a group purchase a while back where buyers thought they were getting stainless works headers, but were sent cheaper Chinese knock-offs instead. Maybe it's this incident that indicated ssw is producing parts in china.....

kcgperformance

Info was from a reliable source who recently visited Stainless Works facility and got a first hand view of the operation. There is an R&D dept that hand builds prototypes then makes Jigs for each which is shipped to a fab facility in china for production quantities. They do mfg mufflers, and do some laser cutting in the facility here.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

The only headers made overseas are for 2010+ Camaro, 2010+ Raptor, and 2011+ Mustang only and this is throught the product line Stainless Power. All the other products(Stainless Works) are still 100% US made and US Source Material

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
I wanted to Clarify some things on the LSX swap headers we offer, We offer several different sizes and styles on these at the current time, We offer sizes from 1 3/4 in-2in primary tubes that are made by Stainless Works IN THE USA!! we also offer a 1 3/4 POLISHED header that is made over seas that is a more economical piece to the SW pieces. I do believe SW makes some of there products over seas (I BELIEVE) but our swap headers are not one of the products. Our swap headers are made by SW IN THE USA.
When we did the GP a few years back we NEVER ADVERTISED the headers as the STAINLESS WORKS HEADER, we advertised it as a 1 3/4 polished stainless header , which turned out to be only 1 5/8 which was our manufacture mistake, I believe everyone that had a issue we took care of. The main reason we had someone else manufacture the headers was SIMPLY TO CUT COST FOR THE CONSUMER which obviously back fired slightly as people assumed these were SW headers and were not
At the end of the day to manufacture stainless swap headers in the states is not gonna be cheap as one made other places. I am actually working on another LSX swap header with another major manufacture and they are going to be in the 1200.00-1400.00 range and the customers are ecstatic to get them , We are simply wanting to bring the customer the BEST and MOST COST EFFECTIVE products to market, please understand that and in doing so we seem to get the negative response trying to do so for our valued customers . In closing please let us know what if anything we can do to make you our customer comfortable and happy , we have no scams or nothing to hide, if you have ever been to our facility you would see what we are about . Thank you and we look forward to hopefully help each and everyone of you in the near future!!
Sincerely,
Bruce Hawkins
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com
864-855-2694 EXT 12

akanitro

iTrader: (2)

Bruce. You run a great company and it always seems that everyone always has time to say negative things but no-one ever tells anyone how great experiences are. I can personally attest that you and Steve have been a huge help and I will continue to rave and recommend you. You run a great business and things do happen from time to time but overall I am completely satisfied and appreciate everything you do for me.
Thanks,

Josh Jacob

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I'm with Josh...nothing but good experiences here.

cosmick

I'm firmly in the camp that believes there's no legit reason why we can't have mild 1 5/8 shorties for $110 per pair, just like the 305 guys.

kcgperformance

Mild 1-5/8" shorty's wouldn't flow as well as factory 2002 Fbody manifolds, And even if they did it wouldn't be worth it in my opinion for zero gain.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

That's an easy answer. The mild 1 5/8" SBC shorty headers were designed and the jigs made way back in the 80s, and they've sold thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands since. Their tooling and R&D costs were paid for years ago, so the only things that have to factor into the cost now is the materials & labor costs for manufacturing them. When you look at something like LS-swap headers, you've got all of the same R&D and tooling costs (actually, much higher R&D and tooling costs because they are much more complicated long tubes, plus there's 30 years of inflation since those shorty headers were designed), but will only sell hundreds of sets instead of hundreds of thousands, so the per-unit costs have to be much, much higher to recover those R&D and tooling costs.

You guys need to stop comparing the cost of LS-swap headers to old SBC headers that have been around for 30 years and start comparing the costs to a set of 5th gen Camaro, C6 or CTS-V headers, all of which will STILL be sold in much higher quantities than thirdgen LS swap headers.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

CTS-V Headers I bought were used, from Kooks directly, and STILL cost me $1300 so you people really have to stop complaining about the cost. You're getting a damn good header for the money.

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

Cost is not the issue for me at least. I don't mind paying the price for the high quality material and top not welds/craftsmanship that went into the SSW pieces. My issue is the fitment is not acceptable, and when I contacted hawks personally, I was more or less told that its to be expected with aftermarket parts, and they would not be willing to do anything with it. If it was a interference with another aftermarket part, I could understand, but when it is directly interfering with a frame rail, that's not kosher. A good fit is expected with this caliber of headers.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

im sure bruces hands are tied to a point. is ssw tells him they wont fix or replace the headers you guys cant expect bruce to fit the bill....he is just a vendor...not the fabricator!

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

I understand Bruce, nor hawks in anyway physically produces these headers. I am under the impression hawks designed the headers though. Even if hawks did not design these pieces, they can only be bought from Hawks, and hawks only, they cannot even be had direct from SSW. Bruce's name is on these headers and he is well aware of the fitment problems they are known for. He has already stated in this thread he is working with another manufacturer for different headers. if SSW was unwilling to fix the headers(if they are even aware of a problem) they produce for him, he probably should have done that long ago for just that reason. It is hawks sole responsibility in my eyes to make sure parts with his company's name are correct, it's his reputation on the line.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

thats just part of the frustration of modding a car.

Hell, I've had bad strut mounts from Spohn straight out of the box. I've etched my initials in them and sent them back "under warranty" just to say they were fine, and resold to another customer.

Better believe he sent my bad plates right back to me again and passed them off as new.

I just hope my headers fit lol

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
I do not remember your specific situation but I am sure we can get you the headers and they will fit correct as long as the proper mounts are used, the only place they really fit tight is at the collector as the frame rail swoops inward as the header comes back. The quality is top notch on these things, some people expect that when installed there should be 1in or more clearance everywhere and in some swap case that is not the case, I will stand behind my product 100% as I have done in the past . I want this to be a positive response and not considered negative in any way, I would love the opportunity to get a set in YOUR hands to try them , give me a call. I look forward to the opportunity to proove to you these are as nice as I say they are!.
Thanks,
Bruce Hawkins
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com
864-855-2694

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

Bruce,
I appreciate the response, your response is much more friendly than the one I had received from a hawks employee early last winter(after I had installed the headers and experienced the frame rail interference). I would be happy to talk more on the headers over the phone if I had not already purchased a set and modified them to fit my car. I have the hawks double hump crossmember, and spohn swap mounts.

hawksthirdgen

Hi,
I apologize you did not get a professional response but with 12 employees its hard for me to keep up with them all , but I will deal with that on my end, call me when you can at the office and I will discuss them with you no problem.
I would also like to say that I really appreciate all of our customers and thank the for there continued support as there satisfaction is ALWAYS very important to me !
Sincerely,
Bruce Hawkins
www.hawksthirdgenparts.com

zoidberg355

http://www.kooksheaders.com/exhaust-header-882.html Mid length headers