Almo the Pirate

ive recently fallen in love with the third gens after riding in a new friends kickass 87 iroc, and im looking to buy one at the end of summer when i turn 18; like a birthday present to myself.

im planning on being able to spend up to 3000 or so on one, and im wondering what you guys think i should get. id really like something with over 200 hp, and i have to have a stick. if all else fails i could swap out a t5 or even t56 if i can afford it but idk. id also like to find out what engine (if any) i could swap out eventually and still be able to fool the smog guy and get some good power. maybe somewhere around 325 or 350.

i dont really know much about aftermarket parts and modifications, so pretty much any advice is appreciated. i want something thats pretty damn fast but not too expensive. im not a cheapo or anything but i dont want to break the bank with it.

thank you!

fryer1979

It's really hard to suggest which car to actually buy when it comes to third-gens, everybody prefers something a little different for different reasons. If you are new to the cars, take a look around the site at pictures of both Camaros and Firebirds from all of the third gen years and get a feel for what it is you like. There are a lot of options and just as many good reasons to prefer one over the other; T-tops, hard top, or convertible; Z28, IROC, RS, TA, GTA, Formula; manual, automatic; and even early or late third gen. It really is only up to you to decide what does it for you. I personally prefer a pre-1990 Z28 with T-tops and an automatic (heavily modified of course). My one suggestion is if you are looking into motor swaps any way, try to get something that already has a V8 in it (305 or 350), runs good, and passes smog. That should not be too hard to find for 3K or less. And if you're looking to get only about 350 or so HP out of the car a 350 will give you that without a whole lot of work, so no motor swap would be needed. Hell, if you found a TPI car it's probably easily attainable with smog legal parts from almost any mail order speed shop like Summit Racing or Jegs.

Hope this helps a little, good luck and have fun!

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

get a 89tta

Almo the Pirate

i know i want a manual, even if i have to change out the automatic, and t-tops because its fricking hot where i live and i dont like convertibles. i would kind of like a firebird but a camaro is a lot easier to come by and i like them just as much. i would an 86+ iroc or z28 cuz im not really a fan of the RS, plus their stock engines dont seem to have as much power. i guess what im really asking is what is the easiest to come by and easiest to get some good modifications on. i think id like a TPI engine because by looking at the charts they have the most power but thats all i really know about them, compared TBI or carbed.

and another mostly related question, what are some good mods, and what companies should i get them from? i am still kinda far off from actually getting my car but i like to have a general idea of what i want to do.

thank you fryer, and ill keep an eye out for one traviz. ill probably just get something thats easier to find. thanks for the input.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

haha no problem, im just being a *****. save up 4g's and you can get any iroc or gta in good condition, I picked up a 91 gta for my girl for 3200 and only problem was a bad fuel pump, and the trans went out a few months later, but guess what im doing a t5 swap as we speak.

Almo the Pirate

haha yea like 10 minutes after i replied to that i remembered that it was the tta's there were only like 1500 of. i just read that article thing like 2 weeks ago. that would be a sweet freaking find though.

how hard is the auto to manual swap? i wonder if it would be worth just buying an automatic and switching it since they seem to be more common, and it would probably be cheaper. plus i could probably find one with a 350. to hell with the 305 if the swap's easy enough.
i havent done a whole lot of work on cars yet, which is one of the reasons i want something like that. i need a hobby and i love cars.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

a T5 you will be in for 800 or so plus labor.

OneFast91Vert

Just look on the Fresno Craigslist. There's quite a few for sale in our area. This one looks cool but is an RS http://fresno.craigslist.org/cto/1197884499.html
Just keep checking every day. There's bound to be one that you'll like.

fryer1979

Try cruising around the forums here on TGO too. I have found a few times people selling what they claim to be everything you will need to swap an auto to a t-5 (including the t-5) for $500. I've found the adds in the classified sections, reagional boards, and even the drive train boards. Just a little digging around and some patience ought to net you a good find.

Almo the Pirate

yea i actually look on fresno craigslist about once a day. i only have 1600 saved up right now which is the reason im waiting until the end of summer. ive seen several pretty nice camaros on there but unfortunately i still dont have quite enough yet.

Almo the Pirate

ok so i guess ill figure between 500 and 800 for a t5 swap and just look around for a deal on an automatic. unless of course i find a good price on a manual in the first place.

i actually got a call from a guy thats selling a 74 SS nova that sounds pretty freakin sick for hardly over 1000 and im kind of tempted to get that, even if i end up selling it later. he has 5 grand into the engine and a 4.11 posi rear end so it sounds like it would be pretty beastly. it would be fun to work on, plus he said it was a factory 4 speed but he swapped to automatic, so i could get practice with the swap without having to chop anything up. theres like a 30% chance that ill get it, but im thinking i might just keep saving for a third gen, mostly because they have better handling. and probably better gas mileage.

408chevymob

You should check SF Bay Area craigslist too, you will probably be able to find a pretty bad thirdgen out here that you would be able to cruise back to fresno no problem.

Almo the Pirate

that is a great idea my good sir.

fryer1979

Don't be afraid to venture out to the Reno/Sparks area or even up to the Redding and Red Bluff areas. They should all be less than a few hours away from Fresno, and will help provide a larger base to pull from. Not much there currently, but if you keep an eye out you never know what you'll find.

Almo the Pirate

yea i actually started looking around in some of those areas yesterday.

wddavis

O.K. I am going to the party pooper...sorry. I am a "smog guy" with (what I feel to be) some good advice.
PLEASE listen I have seen too many people hurt because they did not know.
1. In california the SELLER needs to have the car smogged you the buyer can go to court and a judge can decide what to do if the can does not smog.
this is good for you now it provides you with some protection when buying but...it also means that in 5 or 10 years when you want to sell it needs to pass, not joe the blind smogger who will pass anything ( I have heard horror stories of people sitting in court a year or two after selling a car)

2 Be extra careful when buying a car from out of state if it does not pass then YOU need to spend the money to make it pass with no cost limit some of the emission parts are getting hard to find.

3 a 350 motor can have a lot done to it without needing to fool the smog guy there are many parts that have a carb e.o. # you can easly make way over 200 horse without taking the chance of issues later heck there was even a smog legal nos kit made for a small block I have not seen it but saw it listed on the c.a.r.b website also a 305 and a 350 look the same on the outside. Wink, Wink

4 thanks to rice rockets and street racers the cops can now have you open the hood and write you a ticket for illegal mods. and that hurts, making a car pass at the ref. can be painfull.

just be careful and don't bite off more than you can handle. you can find out about many of the smog laws at smogcheck.ca.gov and the c.a.r.b. site is good for info on aftermarket parts also the smogcheck has a page where you can look up the smog history of a car.

bitchin_buick

GLAD TO BE IN OHIO!

Almo the Pirate

dude thanks for that kind of information, thats exactly what ive been needing. i dont want to have a bunch of trouble with californias stupid smog stuff and i want to know what i can and cant do, and what im willing to chance. i am greatful of the 350 and 305 block looking the same, i just want to know that the smog guy wont be able to tell the difference, or wont mind it, seeing as they did come in certain trim models. i think by telling me this youve become my official source of smog related questions hahaha. hope that doesnt bother you.

wddavis

as far as I know they are almost the same block and just try to get a 305 from a gm dealer. DO check out the smogcheck website there you can find out all of the laws regarding engine changes.

as far as being glad to be in Ohio... some of our smog laws are bulls**t, but over and over again I have a person who comes into the shop where I work bitching about smog, but when the get their car back it runs smoother, cleaner, and with more power than before. many times they have a burnt plug wire or something minor which they have been living with for 6 months or more. wasting gas and hoping they will make it home. Also (if sac. will pull its head out of their a**) we have a program where the state will pay for up to $500 for smog repairs to lower income people. only good for the bi-annual check not change of ownership.

Almo the Pirate

im thinking as long as its smog legal im gonna buy a private party 350 and rebuild it because i figure itd be quite a bit cheaper. my cousin has rebuilt a ton of engines so id just have him help me out with it. im not too concerned about having a ton of power, mostly handling and stuff so most of my mods will be on the suspension. i definitely want more power than stock as long as its got enough to run in the low 13's or so if i want to race it. i drive to my friends house in the mountains a lot and i really want a good handling car.
do you know what engine modifications i could do with it still being pretty easily smog legal? i only want like at least 325 hp or so. if i could get more thatd be cool but whatever.

wddavis

sounds like you are properly thinking things through
I just did some looking online and found that fresno city college has an automotive program. I don't know what you are thinking about doing for school, but if you like messing with cars, and don't want to be a lube monkey(we all had to do it) you might want to check in to it. sometimes a good education can make the difference between being the guy who sits in the driver's seat thinking about what is broken, and the guy outside in 100 degree heat under a car with 150 degree oil running down his arm. Plus the money ain't bad, not great, but not bad.
Modern cars are are not just about turning the screw many times the repair is in reprograming the computer, or in knowing how the car "thinks"
I noticed that TraviZ is running a "megasquirt" on a 89 iroc that sounds like fun not legal but fun I would like to know how that is working and if the factory pcm goes in for smog or if he has the tuning down good enough for smog? I know that with changing fuel and timing curves these late 3rd gens w/ tpi an make much more power with stock drive trains. that is the direction modern tuning is headed.

wddavis

oops I got off track. smog legal mods... if it has an eo# than it is legal, just make sure it is legal for your car check out www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/aftermktqry.php in that site you can verify what a part is legal for. Many times the summit catalog will say a part is legal, and it is, just not for your car. also when you buy a smog legal part it will have a sticker for your car the the smog guy can use to verify that it is legal. you will also have proof to your friends when you are b.s.ing that there is a cam installed or upgraded chip or whatever you have added.

Also when looking on craigslist try misspelling it is amazing how many cameros there are out there cheep(nobody seems to want them)

Almo the Pirate

dude i know! i always misspell it like every 3 or 4 times i check. i actually corrected one guy's because he hadnt sold it for a while because of it. it was a pretty fugly 4th gen because of the "work" he had done to it. it was a ghetto car.
im tempted to get into some kind of automotive school or something for a little bit just because i'd like to know how to work on cars better than the average joe. right now i can do the stuff that pretty much anyone who bothers to try can, mostly because thats all there is to do to my car. although i can do all the interior electrical, but it doesnt really matter cuz im not gonna put a big stereo in it when i get it. i put a halfway decent one in my car because i had a 4 button radio with one speaker that worked before. it was lame.
aaannyway, back on track. i might try to get into that with my 2 friends im always doing everything with anyway, and i want to get a job at pepboys when i turn 18 so that would be pretty cool. i love working on cars but i think i might only be able to make it a part time job at most. but then again after i do that i may find i love it enough to make it a temporary full time thing, who knows.
oh and i looked at that first smog website you mentioned. they just seem to have the kind of information that dumbasses who dont know how to do anything themselves need. it seems like anything government run nowadays does, because were so stupid we have to rely on them to do everything for us or we cant possibly survive! how did people live hundreds of years ago without the government telling them what they can or cannot do?? we have no moral now so we cant use that anymore!

sorry, i get off into rants like that sometimes...
again, back on track, got any other smog websites that would have more specific stuff? im gonna check the above one out in just a second here and see whats up.

Almo the Pirate

oh and one more question ive been wondering about for months, are there any headers that are/can be smog legal?

wddavis

ya there are many of them... just go to www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/aftermktqry.php
and look around if you see something you are interested in then do a search on line you will have a company name and part number. it is amazing what can do without breaking the smog laws. its just too bad that most of the time the difference between legal and illegal is money paid to the state.

Almo the Pirate

yea no kidding. but you probably make that money back with evasion of tickets and getting it to pass smog every other year so it seems pretty alright. im incredibly surprised how much smog legal stuff they had on that website. im glad you showed me that stuff. thanks a bunch man.

Almo the Pirate

ALRIGHT! i just bought an 89 iroc for 3 grand, 2 days before my 18th birthday, (just like i said i wanted to) with a bunch of smog legal mods already in it! its a 350 with a 97 6 speed manual tranny, smog legal AFR aluminium heads, edlebrock headers, a cam, freeflow cat, and borla exhaust. for 3000! i can still hardly believe it. ill post pictures tomorrow, along with all my questions cuz theres still some stuff that needs to be hooked up.

oh and it also came with 2 extra chips in the center console, one that has a sticker claiming it to be a strictly racetrack only chip. it doesnt get any better than that!

webeeZ28

iTrader: (2)

Congrats on getting the car you wanted. Did you smog it?

Almo the Pirate

thaaannks. no i havent smogged it yet, i have to hook up the speedo box adapter thingamajig to get the 6 speed speedo to work. i need some help with that cuz i dont have the manual or anything since the guy already did all the work like 7 or 8 years ago. i posted a thread on it earlier today with a couple pictures.
the guy did keep most of the receits and stuff though. at least 4 grand in mods alone. freaking great.

Darkshot

iTrader: (4)

So he didn't smog it before selling it to you?

It sounds like a great deal based on the mods, but you will NOT be able to put the car in your name until it passes smog. I'd be worried. And watch out for those chips, they sound like mail order chips. The only way to get a good tune is to learn to burn chips and do it yourself.

If he had it dyno tuned and that's where the chips came from, you should be fine.

Almo the Pirate

no he didnt get it smogged because its on non op and the speedo needs to be hooked up before the check engine light will go off.
he got the chip custom made locally, i forget where though.
he told the guy all the specs, had him check the compression and all that good stuff and custom burned it.
he told me he paid 500 bucks for it.
and that its also got 10.5:1 compression, and like 20-30k miles on the rebuild.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Lets see some pictures of it! Any progress with getting it smogged? Sounds pretty sweet man.

Almo the Pirate

I've got an album for it. It's not a whole lot to look at. I've made quite a bit of progress. Speedo is hooked up, all the tranny wiring is done, did a basic tune up and a few other things that slip my mind at the moment.
as far as I can tell the only things left to do are the fuel injectors and distributor. And the brakes and changing all the fluids. Oh and I have to get the hose for the air pump to the cat, the moron took it out when he put a high flow cat in it.
I did a compression check the other day. It was making around 170 psi so I'm quite pleased.

Almo the Pirate

update:

replaced all the injectors and the distributor and it runs better than ever. unfortunately the headers have been melting anything within an inch of them so ive had to take em out and wrap them.
i just finished wrapping them earlier today, so next weekend i need to get them back in. and seeing the trouble they gave me coming out, its not gonna be easy.
getting all that stuff out of the way has given me a good chance to clean everything up, and under all the gunk i found the word "edlebrock" on the water pump. that was quite the nice surprise.
also i discovered there is NO pressure in the air conditioner, and its like 125 bucks to refill it. and since its so in my way all the time ive decided to just get a delete pulley for it.
ill try and get some pictures if the cleaned up if it seems picture-worthy.

Almo the Pirate

alright time for some pictures. i was trying to get the driver side header back in and the valve cover was in the way, so i took it off. i saw these and almost creamed my pants.

itsMikey

woah! nice buy for $3k

Almo the Pirate

(*&*#(&R&^(*^%*

just got everything back together and went to start it and set the timing and some electrical shorted and started smoking right below the coil. so much for finally driving it this week.
i REALLY want to find the ******* who wired that car and kick him in the face.

Kevy Kev

You can buy mine now for $1,100 (see thread).