blue birdy 87

Whats better for racing purposes, an auto or manual transmission? The auto is heavier, and you cant control your shifts the same way. Although with an auto you dont have to be good with a clutch. I would assume for budget racing auto is the way because a turbo 350/400 is cheaper then a t56.

Those are just my thoughts, any ideas?

J91

It's about consistency, an auto is way more consistent than a manual, and a good auto will shift quicker.....

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Consistency is in the driver and some on the equipment. I was knocking down consistency that was just crazy I thought for a manual.

The auto, but for running, will out shift a manual and the converter has the ability to hold a engine in its power band without dropping too low with the right converter.

I say auto for the track. Manual for the street car for the fun.

AlkyIROC

Normally, the only time you see a manual transmission on the dragstrip is when the rules for your class state you have to run one. If you have the option to use an automatic, most people will.

I run a powerglide. I only need to make one shift. The less shifts you need to make, the more consistent you can be however it takes a lot more to stay in the powerband.

Dialed_In

iTrader: (3)

Were assuming that the op is referring to drag racing. The auto also hits he tires a bit softer. Easier to hook up and launch, not as hard on the rear as dumping the clutch in a stick car. There's still a hardcore group of racers that love the stick. I build a few engines for an organization called Pro Stick. Those guys are nuts. Most of them run clutchless setups. Liberty, jeffco, gforce, etc. Then you have pro mod and pro stock...stickin with tha stick!

Shagwell

Most pro-mods are auto now as well. - Pro stock will likely stay stick/clutch for a long time, not only due to rules but because of being NA & utilizing high rpm.

No "H" pattern shifted manual can be nearly as fast or as controlled/precise as a typical manual valvebody racing auto is. Add to that the converter technology getting completely ludacris and the clutch manuals simply aren't the best option.

I would absolutely love a 3 or possibly even a 4-speed liberty in the camaro, but it's simply not logical even with the bruno-drive & converter.


A typical street car is more fun to drive with a manual, but a good auto will be faster & will be much easier to get the power to the ground.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I will argue the softer hitting the rear tires statement. I used to think so, but there are slipper clutches designed for drag racing that actually adjust for the launch. There are some amazing parts out there.

AlkyIROC

A Lenco would be nice to have but at around $1000 per gear, it's a little pricey. When you look to see how a Lenco works, each gear is actually a planetary gear system similar to automatic transmission gears. Each gear lever is in one ratio or another. Neutral is another box at the end of the transmission. Technically, they're clutchless. You only use the clutch to start and stop. Once the car is moving, the clutch isn't used to shift.

Manually shifting an H pattern shifter while drag racing and pulling levers with a Lenco is comparing apples to oranges. Although they're both considered manual transmissions, that's where the similarities end.

The T5 isn't made for a lot of abuse. The T56 has 2 OD gears which are not required for drag racing. An older 4 speed or a Jerico would be the better choices for a drag racing manual transmission if you can't step up to a Lenco.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

The t56 is a nasty street Trans, that for sure. A manual meaning manual shift is the limit to the clutchless racing Trans. Never seen one street driven.

1bad406

iTrader: (1)

This guy showed up down here index racing with his stick car. Made it down to the semis of a 10,000 to win 6.00 index race, against all Automatic cars. On small tires too

blue birdy 87

I mean racing in general. If you have any info on other types, please share. In other types of racing the auto could be good so you can keep both hands on the wheel. But dont you want a stick for that so you can better control what gear your in going in and out of the forners?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Consistancy. Very rare to see a manual car in bracket racing. Sure there are some out there, but its not a fluke why about 95% of bracket racers use autos.

Dakota W.

The only time I would ever consider an auto would be for drag racing, any other racing, like street, autox, etc. I would use a manual.Automatics just annoy the hell out of me.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

A regular auto, I agree. My th400, manual valve body, pro stick shifter....the fun is there.

Shagwell

I'm heavily considering a 3 speed lenco with a converter drive for the camaro. - The way the terms are being used in this thread that could be a manual or an auto, lol.

More and more lenco's are being used behind converter drives instead of clutch cans. It's not because of money or data in classes like pro-mod, it's because they are going faster.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Manual valvebody Th400 to me is a clutchless manual Its awesome and best compromise for fun on the street yet having a solid built trans that wont break the bank. 1500 or less into a Th400 will hold 1000hp. T56 would need 3-4 grand to do that.

Shagwell

Reverse manual with a brake - only way to roll.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yep, love the TH400 in the TA.

The T56...depends. I got mine for 900, rebuilt for 800, holds 750, i could upgrade the input and output for 600 more and hold the extra. Beyond that you are talking 150 plus HP applications if drag racing is the use, but for a street car, double OD is a blast and a mild rebuild like mine has lasted over 1200 RWHP. Traction on the street is just not available to bite and make that trans find its weak spot.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

There any brakes with forward manual shift pattern? Mine is manual with forward shift but no brake and I kinda wanted to look into that with the new turbo setup. 8's is what I want and I need to launch to get there.

built91Z28

I have all the respect in the world for your car. I just have to laugh at the fact that its not crazy to talk about street cars and 8 second time slips. It's awesome though.

Shagwell

Some, but it will still be a completely different vb so it won't save you any $ over a reverse pattern. - Once you try a reverse manual you'll never go back to a forward pattern. Having 1st gear right beside neutral & reverse is far more logical than a forward pattern.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

yup, my old trans was a foward pattern. with a tci outlaw shifter i went past 3rd and into neutral on a couple of occasions. now i have a reverse pattern with a cheetah shifter and its much much better.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I just have that super popular B&M megashifter designed for these cars and its forward pattern. My trans came with a forward manual but if it has to be replaced, then so be it. Just thought I'd try to reuse it.

Not sure if the shifter can be used with the reverse pattern? I guess it should be 3rd gear would just be 1st gear right? It ratchets in both directions. I'd just need to relabel the shift pattern sticker so I know what gear I'm in

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Aint that the darndest thing? With todays technology and tuning, you can have 8 second streetable cars... Mines abit rough for a street car but I think it will do great once the tune is nailed down. It should have 8 sec potential. It certainly has the ingredients and guys have gone faster with smaller parts/lesser combos. It just sucks if I crack an 8, i'm still one of the slower cars around here 4-5th place sucks haha

Shagwell

Yes, most ratchet shifter cans be used with either pattern. - The reason you see different plates with standard type shifters is due to the detent methods(release trigger, etc) between gear changes. For example, the way a reverse pattern quarter stick detents you can push it from 3rd down to 1st in one hit, but on upshift to go from 2-3 requires squeezing the release lever; thus 1-2 made simply by moving the lever, 2-3 you have to squeeze the release.

blue birdy 87

Just curious who has the fastest street legal car on the board? And for that matter who's got the fastest track car?

But if your really that upset about being 4th-5th place, I'll trade you for my old lg4. That'll gain you ALOT of places!

Shagwell

I have one of the world's fastest garage-space-taker-uppers!



solid 4's @ 160ish in the 1/8, but been grudge racing so that's all I'm saying......lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

NO idea whos fastest...I believe the fastest I've seen is the guy with the big block with spray... almost running high 7's. 1BadRZ28 is his name i believe

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I have the reverse pattern th400 manual, it was easy to get used to, but was a blast watching the wife get used to it, lol.

AlkyIROC

Certain shifters are used in different applications. Some people like a gate shifter, other a ratchet shifter. One of the more popular gate shifters is the Cheetah shifter made by Turbo Action. http://www.turboaction.com/shifters.html

With a ratchet shifter, there are many different styles and types. I currently use a B&M ProRatchet because the shifter handle always returns to the same upright position. Start in park and keep ratcheting back until you get to first gear. Keep pushing forward to ratchet and eventually you'll be right back in park. After you push or pull the shifter to ratchet it, the handle returns to the same position. I had a Megashifter and didn't like how the handle moved all the way forward when you put it in park. Once it was out of park, it worked like a regular ratchet shifter.

With a powerglide, I prefer the PRN21 shift pattern. Air or electric shifts work better when they push so it's better to push the handle forward. With the ratchet shifter, it's impossible to accidentally go into neutral since I only need to do one shift. Also after crossing the finish line, it's easier to pop the transmission into neutral as the car slows down so there isn't as much stress on the con rods as the car slows down. You shouldn't neutral a TH350 or TH400 though. Bad things can happen but a Powerglide is designed differently so it can be neutralled.

As for fastest street and track car on the board, it should depend on how they're making power. With today's technology and availability in power adders, it's easy to have a fast street car that uses NOS or a turbo because while driving around on the street, they're not making huge amounts of power all the time so it's still basically a street car. With my engine pushing around 1000 hp without a power adder, it's hard to consider it a street engine. I probably have one of the fastest NA cars on the board while there are even faster NOS/blower/turbo cars on here.

With a properly matched torque converter, a manual valve body and a ratchet shifter, an automatic transmission can be very precise on the dragstrip. Add in an air or electric shift from a timer or rpm switch and each shift can be made at the exact same time on every pass down the track. Banging gears through an H pattern manual transmission may be fun on the street and mandatory for road course and autocross racing but it's very inefficient on the dragstrip.

Even using a converter with a Lenco isn't really a manual transmission. The planetary gear system is essentially an automatic transmission that needs to be shifted manually so is it technically a manual transmission or not? The only disadvantage to using something like that instead of a true automatic transmission is the human error to shift the transmission. Miss the shift by a couple of hundred rpm and the run isn't the same. In a heads up race, it's simply whoever gets to the finish line first but the majority of us are bracket racers where consistency wins races, not speed.