Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
05-29-2013, 10:35 AM
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Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
This site has been a great resource for me, as I have done an engine swap, as well as had a few problems with my car that you all have already found solutions for. I just wanted to introduce myself, as I too am a Third Generation Camaro owner and enthusiast. My name is Jayce, and I live in the SLC area in Utah. I currently drive a 1987 Camaro Berlinetta. I picked it up last August for $550, and I have been working on it ever since. So far I have about $3000 into it. It originally came with a 305, and I swapped it out for a 5.7 350. So far I have only swapped the engine, changed the wheels, and added a decent sound system. Like most of you, I plan on taking this project car and completely restoring it. Of course, I have a very tight budget, therefore improvements on the car will be very slow. I don't plan on stopping the project, or selling the car, ever. It has been a project between my father and I, and it will probably remain that way. I apologize if I posted this in the wrong area, but I also had a question about the engine. I am taking my car to the open drag races on Friday, May 31st. Any quick tune ups I should consider? Any tune ups I should do between runs? Should I put on my old wheels first? Any first-timer tips in general?
Here are a few pictures of her, and how she has improved over the past few months.
Here are a few pictures of her, and how she has improved over the past few months.
05-29-2013, 07:29 PM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
Welcome aboard thirdgen.org.
I moved this to the Organized Drag Racing forum for better responses to your questions.
It's a little hard to tell you what to do, not knowing more about your car, engine, etc. I would say that when I first saw your new rims & tires, my first thought was, "Those gotta go." Regardless, it's not easy getting traction with the typical street tire. Some will say lower tire pressure, others raise it; some will say no burn out, others a big smoky burn out.
Mostly it takes repetition, changing one thing at a time. In general, though, it usually works to try to keep the engine temp cool - or, at least, consistent.
I moved this to the Organized Drag Racing forum for better responses to your questions.
It's a little hard to tell you what to do, not knowing more about your car, engine, etc. I would say that when I first saw your new rims & tires, my first thought was, "Those gotta go." Regardless, it's not easy getting traction with the typical street tire. Some will say lower tire pressure, others raise it; some will say no burn out, others a big smoky burn out.
Mostly it takes repetition, changing one thing at a time. In general, though, it usually works to try to keep the engine temp cool - or, at least, consistent.
05-30-2013, 12:48 AM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
With street tires, it's hit or miss. Radial tires don't like low air pressure. Keep them inflated to the recommended pressure. Sometimes slightly overinflated works well. With street tires, don't drive through the water box. The tread picks up the water and carries it to the starting line. If possible, drive to the inside around the water box. Don't go to the outside. That's where they sweep the rubber and dirt off to. You can do a short dry burnout to help clean the tires off. Street tires are not designed to be heated up so trying to do a big burnout does nothing but wear the rubber off.
I'd get rid of those small sidewall tires and put regular tires back on.
If you've never been to the track before, you'll need to go through a tech inspection. Simple things to do.
Leave everything you don't need at home. Don't have anything loose inside the car.
Have all the wheel nuts on. No broken wheel studs.
No worn out tires. No exposed cords.
Battery properly secured. No bungee straps etc.
No more than 12" of unprotected rubber fuel line. You're running a mechanical pump to a carb, a factory steel line or steel braided hose is required.
Unless it's an EFI system, dual throttle return springs are required.
No leaking fluids
Check with your track to see if you'll need a helmet or not. Depending on the ET you run, you may not need a helmet but track rules may say all speeds require one.
Never worry about having the best or the fastest car at the track. Never care what kind of car you can beat or what beats you. You're running your own race and all vehicles are different.
When in competition, never care what you opponent may run. All you really need to know is which car is going to launch first so you can concentrate on the tree. In a bracket race, theoretically, you'll both cross the finish line at the same time. During T&T it doesn't matter but in competition, you'll need a good reaction time to increase your chance of winning. When you see the last yellow light come on, go. By the time you and the car react, the green light should be on before you break the starting beam.
Lastly, go to have fun. Not everyone wins but you learn things every time you go down the track and eventually you'll go many rounds.
Hints when posting pictures. Try to keep the width to no more than 800 pixels and put a space between each picture.
I'd get rid of those small sidewall tires and put regular tires back on.
If you've never been to the track before, you'll need to go through a tech inspection. Simple things to do.
Leave everything you don't need at home. Don't have anything loose inside the car.
Have all the wheel nuts on. No broken wheel studs.
No worn out tires. No exposed cords.
Battery properly secured. No bungee straps etc.
No more than 12" of unprotected rubber fuel line. You're running a mechanical pump to a carb, a factory steel line or steel braided hose is required.
Unless it's an EFI system, dual throttle return springs are required.
No leaking fluids
Check with your track to see if you'll need a helmet or not. Depending on the ET you run, you may not need a helmet but track rules may say all speeds require one.
Never worry about having the best or the fastest car at the track. Never care what kind of car you can beat or what beats you. You're running your own race and all vehicles are different.
When in competition, never care what you opponent may run. All you really need to know is which car is going to launch first so you can concentrate on the tree. In a bracket race, theoretically, you'll both cross the finish line at the same time. During T&T it doesn't matter but in competition, you'll need a good reaction time to increase your chance of winning. When you see the last yellow light come on, go. By the time you and the car react, the green light should be on before you break the starting beam.
Lastly, go to have fun. Not everyone wins but you learn things every time you go down the track and eventually you'll go many rounds.
Hints when posting pictures. Try to keep the width to no more than 800 pixels and put a space between each picture.
06-05-2013, 02:12 PM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
With street tires, it's hit or miss. Radial tires don't like low air pressure. Keep them inflated to the recommended pressure. Sometimes slightly overinflated works well. With street tires, don't drive through the water box. The tread picks up the water and carries it to the starting line. If possible, drive to the inside around the water box. Don't go to the outside. That's where they sweep the rubber and dirt off to. You can do a short dry burnout to help clean the tires off. Street tires are not designed to be heated up so trying to do a big burnout does nothing but wear the rubber off.
I'd get rid of those small sidewall tires and put regular tires back on.
If you've never been to the track before, you'll need to go through a tech inspection. Simple things to do.
Leave everything you don't need at home. Don't have anything loose inside the car.
Have all the wheel nuts on. No broken wheel studs.
No worn out tires. No exposed cords.
Battery properly secured. No bungee straps etc.
No more than 12" of unprotected rubber fuel line. You're running a mechanical pump to a carb, a factory steel line or steel braided hose is required.
Unless it's an EFI system, dual throttle return springs are required.
No leaking fluids
Check with your track to see if you'll need a helmet or not. Depending on the ET you run, you may not need a helmet but track rules may say all speeds require one.
Never worry about having the best or the fastest car at the track. Never care what kind of car you can beat or what beats you. You're running your own race and all vehicles are different.
When in competition, never care what you opponent may run. All you really need to know is which car is going to launch first so you can concentrate on the tree. In a bracket race, theoretically, you'll both cross the finish line at the same time. During T&T it doesn't matter but in competition, you'll need a good reaction time to increase your chance of winning. When you see the last yellow light come on, go. By the time you and the car react, the green light should be on before you break the starting beam.
Lastly, go to have fun. Not everyone wins but you learn things every time you go down the track and eventually you'll go many rounds.
Hints when posting pictures. Try to keep the width to no more than 800 pixels and put a space between each picture.
I'd get rid of those small sidewall tires and put regular tires back on.
If you've never been to the track before, you'll need to go through a tech inspection. Simple things to do.
Leave everything you don't need at home. Don't have anything loose inside the car.
Have all the wheel nuts on. No broken wheel studs.
No worn out tires. No exposed cords.
Battery properly secured. No bungee straps etc.
No more than 12" of unprotected rubber fuel line. You're running a mechanical pump to a carb, a factory steel line or steel braided hose is required.
Unless it's an EFI system, dual throttle return springs are required.
No leaking fluids
Check with your track to see if you'll need a helmet or not. Depending on the ET you run, you may not need a helmet but track rules may say all speeds require one.
Never worry about having the best or the fastest car at the track. Never care what kind of car you can beat or what beats you. You're running your own race and all vehicles are different.
When in competition, never care what you opponent may run. All you really need to know is which car is going to launch first so you can concentrate on the tree. In a bracket race, theoretically, you'll both cross the finish line at the same time. During T&T it doesn't matter but in competition, you'll need a good reaction time to increase your chance of winning. When you see the last yellow light come on, go. By the time you and the car react, the green light should be on before you break the starting beam.
Lastly, go to have fun. Not everyone wins but you learn things every time you go down the track and eventually you'll go many rounds.
Hints when posting pictures. Try to keep the width to no more than 800 pixels and put a space between each picture.
Much of what he said is true.The thing guys have a hard time excepting is for many,many yrs guys save numbers from their package to decide to take the stripe or not.True enough luck is the plague of back door racers and old school for sure.Knowing where your at in a lap on the track plays major roles in national wins.Not one found anywhere in a national win doesn't save numbers.Not one anywhere!!.So do concentrate on the tree for good R/T's,but don't show all your cards of what the car is able to run until the very last rounds when needed.I back this with yrs of 9.90 racing having won a national.
06-05-2013, 05:27 PM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
If you're running in some sort of heads up race with no breakout rule then you only need enough power to beat the other guy. That means you might be shutting it down at the 1000 foot mark so the rest of the competition won't know what you're capable of.
It doesn't even mean that much in class racing such as 9.90. Most of the cars running in the index class can easily run quicker but throttle stop the car to slow it down to the index. Kind of boring to watch a 9.90 car on the throttle stop for 5 or more seconds then running 150-160 mph or even higher at 9.9x
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06-06-2013, 07:40 AM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
Very early on I bracket raced and was on top of the tree in R/T in the middle of the bracket on my dial and still from time to time got out and out beat.It was then I started to figure out running out the back door was at best pot luck.First to be the car that was being chased left me as a setting duck and second no chance at all to manage my race.It is even more so true in a 1/4 but does apply to 330' in a 1/8.
So I tailor build a combo to be at the bottom of the bracket and do rounds backing into my dial.In the finals I dial closer against likely faster cars forcing break-outs.I've won alot doing that................That is management of my race.Having a choice of holding numbers or not and some of it is the surprise factor in the finals.This is in no box,two step only,foot brake, bracket race cars.You manage the numbers,not have the numbers manage you.
So I tailor build a combo to be at the bottom of the bracket and do rounds backing into my dial.In the finals I dial closer against likely faster cars forcing break-outs.I've won alot doing that................That is management of my race.Having a choice of holding numbers or not and some of it is the surprise factor in the finals.This is in no box,two step only,foot brake, bracket race cars.You manage the numbers,not have the numbers manage you.
06-06-2013, 05:42 PM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
I've seen people do things like that. Running in a 12 second and slower class but the car can run 11.80 flat out. They're constantly trying to slow the car down so it won't run in the 11's. Not easy to do for consistency.
The thread is asking how to improve times, not how to slow down to run an index.
In order for me to race at an NHRA track, I would have to slow the car down to 10.0. I could throttle stop it to run that slow but I didn't build the car to run slow. I run IHRA and hope to finally get an 8 second timeslip if I ever get a chance to get on track this year.
The thread is asking how to improve times, not how to slow down to run an index.
In order for me to race at an NHRA track, I would have to slow the car down to 10.0. I could throttle stop it to run that slow but I didn't build the car to run slow. I run IHRA and hope to finally get an 8 second timeslip if I ever get a chance to get on track this year.
06-06-2013, 08:25 PM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
While I worked at Burlington Air Express I developed a natural sense of time.There I was responsible for turning the plane in 45 minutes or be penalized $15,000 of every 15 minutes over.Yep,one minute cost $15,000 and then one minute over 15 minutes cost a second $15,000 and so on.
I do have that as part of my make-up,a natural sense of time.When I bracket raced before,guys used to grumble about that hitting my dial all the time.
Now I know that might be something your born with.I think some guys have that and don't know it.It is something the ones that do needs to cultivate.
Study cams.Learn what those numbers mean and how it effects you car's ET.How those numbers fit together with your package!!!. Know it cold and watch your ET improve!!!.
I do have that as part of my make-up,a natural sense of time.When I bracket raced before,guys used to grumble about that hitting my dial all the time.
Now I know that might be something your born with.I think some guys have that and don't know it.It is something the ones that do needs to cultivate.
Study cams.Learn what those numbers mean and how it effects you car's ET.How those numbers fit together with your package!!!. Know it cold and watch your ET improve!!!.
06-09-2013, 04:56 PM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
Thanks for the replies, guys. I wasn't able to hit the track last Friday, because the car had a cracked windshield that needed to be replaced before they'd pass me off. But these drag races aren't necessarily "Races" per say. More like a place to just take your car out and see how fast it can go, without getting a ticket. Yes, there is a tree, it's a 1/4 mile track, but you're not necessarily seeing how far you can move up in the competition, or if your car can beat the other guy's. Every Friday night, this track is open to anyone that has a car and wants to race. No prizes, or anything. Anyway, I am taking my car to the track this Friday. I fixed my windshield, patched the little bit of oil leak I had, now I am well prepared to take it to the track. I will post times when I get them. Then we can see what I can do to improve with the little bit of money I have?
06-16-2013, 05:37 PM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
So I ended up going to the drags last Friday night. Unfortuneately, I don't have times that are impressive. It was my first time racing my car, so times are mediocre. First run I got a 23.. Cause I killed my car at the line. Second run I ran a 20, because I was lying down rubber half way down the track. After lowering the pressure in my tires, and burning some rubber before the race, I managed to pull some low 17's, still with major traction problems. Others at the race were confident that I could get my car to run low 14's, once I learn how to race.
06-23-2013, 06:20 AM
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06-30-2013, 01:12 AM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
Hi from across the Pond!
I've recently (this year) got into taking my cars to RWYB (Run What Ya Brung) events at Santa Pod and other tracks. To say this drag racing lark is an art would be an understatement.
If you're just planning of getting your car to go as fast as possible then what I would recommend is Google drag racing tips and read, read and read again. So many ideas and tips out there, all you have to do is decide what is best for your car.
I'll give you an example with my car. Originally my Dads 1991 Camaro RS with 5.0 TBI, completely stock EVERYTHING. We took it to a RWYB last year and he ran a 16.5, he then chucks me the keys and says have a go. So I nervously pull up to the line and run an 18 something. Since then I've bought the car off him and seeking a 16.5 to effectively beat my dad (an ex-drag racer).
To D or not to D
If you've not got an autobox you can skip this, but this was something that took some understanding to me. I wanted the car to be consistent, a few people told me 'put it in D and floor it, let the car, box, do the rest' - not so true. I ran about 10 back to back runs, each time letting the car cool down, tranny was cool, my runs were never within more than .5 of each other.
Yesterday in the quest for going faster and more consistently, I went for manual shifting, the difference is phenomenal, not only did I beat any time I had done before but all of my runs were within .15 of each other.
Burnouts
They seem to be a controversial thing if you're running street tyres. As I said my car is completely stock, even down to running big BF Goodrich tyres, on stock 15" rims and an open diff, this is definitely not the best set up for the track, but I'm doing my best with it! At the start of the year I just could not get off the line, my 60' times showed I was really losing time just getting out of the blocks.
At this point the only things I had read online were with radials you want to be running street pressures, no burnouts etc etc... very boring. Yesterday I took a tyre gauge with me and decided to have a little play. I started by dropping them to 25psi, all this did was made the lower contact patch a little larger, nothing like a fat crinkle wall slick but still adds a bit more confidence. Added to this, having an open diff, I always spun one wheel from the line, I had tried hazing them after the water box by just doing a hard launch before the line. This didn't seem to be helping much, so I had to bite the bullet and do a full on one wheel tyre peel in the box.
My dad was adamant this was where the missing time was, I wasn't keen as I thought, 'well if that wheel hooks up (the one that has effectively done the burnout) surely the other is going to spin up' - Well, it didn't, it actually hooked up bloody well!
Loading up the torque converter
Something I'd been told to improve my ET was to load up the torque converter on the line, this involves one foot on the brake and the other just bring up the revs to the point where you can feel the car leaning forward. With this, when you see the last yellow, you lift the brakes and floor it. It saves fractions of seconds for the TC to get loaded up off the line and someone also told me its less strain (apart from the torque converter) on the running gear.
The results
So after all that, I turned up at the track yesterday with one goal which was beating my personal best, which so far had been a 16.95 @ 77mph. In an attempt to beat that, I did all of the above. On my first run, it was all a bit of a blur as I had so much to think about, but I ended up missing a shift and the box did 2nd to third a bit before I wanted. I ran a 16.69 @ 80.37mph - No top fueler, but I was so happy! I then got a few more runs in to see what little changes I could do to drop my time. Luckily the fire up road was filling up and I had plenty of time to cool the car and tranny between runs, meaning I always had a baseline to go from. I then dropped the tyres down to 22psi, did a bit of a longer burnout, pulled onto the groove, concentrated on my start line procedure, ignored the reaction time as I was more concerned about getting my start line launch sorted. I then ran a 16.62 @ 80.37 (again).
With a 5.7 you should be seeing low 15's high 14's. You just need some better rubber on the rears!
I've recently (this year) got into taking my cars to RWYB (Run What Ya Brung) events at Santa Pod and other tracks. To say this drag racing lark is an art would be an understatement.
If you're just planning of getting your car to go as fast as possible then what I would recommend is Google drag racing tips and read, read and read again. So many ideas and tips out there, all you have to do is decide what is best for your car.
I'll give you an example with my car. Originally my Dads 1991 Camaro RS with 5.0 TBI, completely stock EVERYTHING. We took it to a RWYB last year and he ran a 16.5, he then chucks me the keys and says have a go. So I nervously pull up to the line and run an 18 something. Since then I've bought the car off him and seeking a 16.5 to effectively beat my dad (an ex-drag racer).
To D or not to D
If you've not got an autobox you can skip this, but this was something that took some understanding to me. I wanted the car to be consistent, a few people told me 'put it in D and floor it, let the car, box, do the rest' - not so true. I ran about 10 back to back runs, each time letting the car cool down, tranny was cool, my runs were never within more than .5 of each other.
Yesterday in the quest for going faster and more consistently, I went for manual shifting, the difference is phenomenal, not only did I beat any time I had done before but all of my runs were within .15 of each other.
Burnouts
They seem to be a controversial thing if you're running street tyres. As I said my car is completely stock, even down to running big BF Goodrich tyres, on stock 15" rims and an open diff, this is definitely not the best set up for the track, but I'm doing my best with it! At the start of the year I just could not get off the line, my 60' times showed I was really losing time just getting out of the blocks.
At this point the only things I had read online were with radials you want to be running street pressures, no burnouts etc etc... very boring. Yesterday I took a tyre gauge with me and decided to have a little play. I started by dropping them to 25psi, all this did was made the lower contact patch a little larger, nothing like a fat crinkle wall slick but still adds a bit more confidence. Added to this, having an open diff, I always spun one wheel from the line, I had tried hazing them after the water box by just doing a hard launch before the line. This didn't seem to be helping much, so I had to bite the bullet and do a full on one wheel tyre peel in the box.
My dad was adamant this was where the missing time was, I wasn't keen as I thought, 'well if that wheel hooks up (the one that has effectively done the burnout) surely the other is going to spin up' - Well, it didn't, it actually hooked up bloody well!
Loading up the torque converter
Something I'd been told to improve my ET was to load up the torque converter on the line, this involves one foot on the brake and the other just bring up the revs to the point where you can feel the car leaning forward. With this, when you see the last yellow, you lift the brakes and floor it. It saves fractions of seconds for the TC to get loaded up off the line and someone also told me its less strain (apart from the torque converter) on the running gear.
The results
So after all that, I turned up at the track yesterday with one goal which was beating my personal best, which so far had been a 16.95 @ 77mph. In an attempt to beat that, I did all of the above. On my first run, it was all a bit of a blur as I had so much to think about, but I ended up missing a shift and the box did 2nd to third a bit before I wanted. I ran a 16.69 @ 80.37mph - No top fueler, but I was so happy! I then got a few more runs in to see what little changes I could do to drop my time. Luckily the fire up road was filling up and I had plenty of time to cool the car and tranny between runs, meaning I always had a baseline to go from. I then dropped the tyres down to 22psi, did a bit of a longer burnout, pulled onto the groove, concentrated on my start line procedure, ignored the reaction time as I was more concerned about getting my start line launch sorted. I then ran a 16.62 @ 80.37 (again).
With a 5.7 you should be seeing low 15's high 14's. You just need some better rubber on the rears!
07-15-2013, 04:06 AM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
I really appreciate all of the replies, guys. Love the community here. Just an update: I was recently browsing my local classifieds, and I found an '82 Z28 in almost perfect condition, with no motor, that I'll be picking up and doing a motor swap. . So I was thinking, while the motor was out of the car, maybe I would change out the heads, or even the camshaft and lifters. If I were to do so, what would you guys suggest I get as far as these parts go? I don't know a whole lot on camshafts at all. My dad does, but I haven't talked to him for a while. Any information, or links would be helpful. Just remember I have a budget. 
haha.
haha.
07-15-2013, 10:23 AM
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Again, you're asking questions that can't be answered without more information.
- What engine are you talking about?
- What's your budget?
- What will the car be used for primarily? Strip? Street? Strip/street? Street/strip? (Yes, those are two different questions...) Cruise? Daily driver?
- What are your goals for its primary use?
- What engine are you talking about?
- What's your budget?
- What will the car be used for primarily? Strip? Street? Strip/street? Street/strip? (Yes, those are two different questions...) Cruise? Daily driver?
- What are your goals for its primary use?
07-15-2013, 11:00 AM
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
Again, you're asking questions that can't be answered without more information.
- What engine are you talking about?
- What's your budget?
- What will the car be used for primarily? Strip? Street? Strip/street? Street/strip? (Yes, those are two different questions...) Cruise? Daily driver?
- What are your goals for its primary use?
- What engine are you talking about?
- What's your budget?
- What will the car be used for primarily? Strip? Street? Strip/street? Street/strip? (Yes, those are two different questions...) Cruise? Daily driver?
- What are your goals for its primary use?
07-15-2013, 12:37 PM
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
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Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Still not sure what you're talking about. The '82, or the '87?
What 350? The factory made millions of them. Most of them are performance junk, primarily because the majority of the 350s went into trucks, and the majority of truck heads were performance junk. So, get the casting # off of the heads, post that here, and we'll go from there.
A $300 budget and being one of the faster cars on the road are completely incompatible. For $300, assuming you have really good factory heads, you're looking at MOST at a cam change. And that's assuming a flat tappet cam and lifters kit, and likely valve springs (almost 100% of factory valves springs are performance junk). Don't forget you'll need gaskets to do a cam change.
To make a 3rd gen with 350 give a new Camaro (I'll assume a base 6.2l version) "a run for their money", you're looking at heads & intake (let's say an upgraded Vortec heads and Performer RPM intake kit from sdpc.com, ~$1200), carburetor ~$450, complete exhaust (at minimum $1000 for decent headers and some kind of good flowing pipes and muffler(s)), $300 for cam/lifters/springs, $400 for a higher stalling converter, $1000 for rear gears (haven't had a 3rd gen rear yet that didn't need axles and bearings). This is assuming the engine doesn't need a rebuild, the transmission doesn't need a rebuild, and you have a 28-spline posi rear end (which didn't come in either '82 or '87 model 3rd gens).
Another thing I have yet to see - a 3rd gen with no engine that has serviceable tires.
New Camaro owners have about $40k that you're going to try to give them a run for. I'd say you really need a reality check. Even new V6 Camaros will walk away from a $300 budget upgraded 350 3rd gen.
What 350? The factory made millions of them. Most of them are performance junk, primarily because the majority of the 350s went into trucks, and the majority of truck heads were performance junk. So, get the casting # off of the heads, post that here, and we'll go from there.
A $300 budget and being one of the faster cars on the road are completely incompatible. For $300, assuming you have really good factory heads, you're looking at MOST at a cam change. And that's assuming a flat tappet cam and lifters kit, and likely valve springs (almost 100% of factory valves springs are performance junk). Don't forget you'll need gaskets to do a cam change.
To make a 3rd gen with 350 give a new Camaro (I'll assume a base 6.2l version) "a run for their money", you're looking at heads & intake (let's say an upgraded Vortec heads and Performer RPM intake kit from sdpc.com, ~$1200), carburetor ~$450, complete exhaust (at minimum $1000 for decent headers and some kind of good flowing pipes and muffler(s)), $300 for cam/lifters/springs, $400 for a higher stalling converter, $1000 for rear gears (haven't had a 3rd gen rear yet that didn't need axles and bearings). This is assuming the engine doesn't need a rebuild, the transmission doesn't need a rebuild, and you have a 28-spline posi rear end (which didn't come in either '82 or '87 model 3rd gens).
Another thing I have yet to see - a 3rd gen with no engine that has serviceable tires.
New Camaro owners have about $40k that you're going to try to give them a run for. I'd say you really need a reality check. Even new V6 Camaros will walk away from a $300 budget upgraded 350 3rd gen.
Last edited by five7kid; 07-15-2013 at 12:42 PM.
07-16-2013, 02:58 PM
#20
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Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
Still not sure what you're talking about. The '82, or the '87?
What 350? The factory made millions of them. Most of them are performance junk, primarily because the majority of the 350s went into trucks, and the majority of truck heads were performance junk. So, get the casting # off of the heads, post that here, and we'll go from there.
A $300 budget and being one of the faster cars on the road are completely incompatible. For $300, assuming you have really good factory heads, you're looking at MOST at a cam change. And that's assuming a flat tappet cam and lifters kit, and likely valve springs (almost 100% of factory valves springs are performance junk). Don't forget you'll need gaskets to do a cam change.
To make a 3rd gen with 350 give a new Camaro (I'll assume a base 6.2l version) "a run for their money", you're looking at heads & intake (let's say an upgraded Vortec heads and Performer RPM intake kit from sdpc.com, ~$1200), carburetor ~$450, complete exhaust (at minimum $1000 for decent headers and some kind of good flowing pipes and muffler(s)), $300 for cam/lifters/springs, $400 for a higher stalling converter, $1000 for rear gears (haven't had a 3rd gen rear yet that didn't need axles and bearings). This is assuming the engine doesn't need a rebuild, the transmission doesn't need a rebuild, and you have a 28-spline posi rear end (which didn't come in either '82 or '87 model 3rd gens).
Another thing I have yet to see - a 3rd gen with no engine that has serviceable tires.
New Camaro owners have about $40k that you're going to try to give them a run for. I'd say you really need a reality check. Even new V6 Camaros will walk away from a $300 budget upgraded 350 3rd gen.
What 350? The factory made millions of them. Most of them are performance junk, primarily because the majority of the 350s went into trucks, and the majority of truck heads were performance junk. So, get the casting # off of the heads, post that here, and we'll go from there.
A $300 budget and being one of the faster cars on the road are completely incompatible. For $300, assuming you have really good factory heads, you're looking at MOST at a cam change. And that's assuming a flat tappet cam and lifters kit, and likely valve springs (almost 100% of factory valves springs are performance junk). Don't forget you'll need gaskets to do a cam change.
To make a 3rd gen with 350 give a new Camaro (I'll assume a base 6.2l version) "a run for their money", you're looking at heads & intake (let's say an upgraded Vortec heads and Performer RPM intake kit from sdpc.com, ~$1200), carburetor ~$450, complete exhaust (at minimum $1000 for decent headers and some kind of good flowing pipes and muffler(s)), $300 for cam/lifters/springs, $400 for a higher stalling converter, $1000 for rear gears (haven't had a 3rd gen rear yet that didn't need axles and bearings). This is assuming the engine doesn't need a rebuild, the transmission doesn't need a rebuild, and you have a 28-spline posi rear end (which didn't come in either '82 or '87 model 3rd gens).
Another thing I have yet to see - a 3rd gen with no engine that has serviceable tires.
New Camaro owners have about $40k that you're going to try to give them a run for. I'd say you really need a reality check. Even new V6 Camaros will walk away from a $300 budget upgraded 350 3rd gen.
07-17-2013, 07:33 AM
#21
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
Should be able to find a gm 7.5" 10 bolt posi carrier already loaded up with 3.73s in a 4x4 S10 Blazer or Jimmy with the 2.8.
07-17-2013, 02:49 PM
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Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: LS1/LQ4
Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
That's a common block, used in millions of cars and trucks. Odds are if the heads came with it, they will not be worth spending a dime on. And, nothing else you do will help performance because the typical head that came on an 010 block were so poor.
But, that block is the old flat tappet type, so a decent cam/lifter set could be as low as $150.
To keep costs down, it makes sense to do the cam, intake, and heads at the same time.
But, that block is the old flat tappet type, so a decent cam/lifter set could be as low as $150.
To keep costs down, it makes sense to do the cam, intake, and heads at the same time.
07-18-2013, 07:35 AM
#23
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: Improve 1/4 Times?/Introduction
That's a common block, used in millions of cars and trucks. Odds are if the heads came with it, they will not be worth spending a dime on. And, nothing else you do will help performance because the typical head that came on an 010 block were so poor.
But, that block is the old flat tappet type, so a decent cam/lifter set could be as low as $150.
To keep costs down, it makes sense to do the cam, intake, and heads at the same time.
But, that block is the old flat tappet type, so a decent cam/lifter set could be as low as $150.
To keep costs down, it makes sense to do the cam, intake, and heads at the same time.
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