jcs64

Im just trying to get started w/ chip tuning so please bear w/ me.
My Blms were pegged at 160 when I first bought the vehicle (I was also only getting 9mpg). Ive checked all the normal stuff and have only gotten results just recently by unplugging the vac from the fuel reg. to boost the pressure a little. At least now the BLMS will hover in the 150's and Im steadily getting 10.5 mpg.
I found a guy that would charge $100 to look at my chip and change the injector constant (seems as though that makes sense) but IM thinking of getting the goods to do it myself, (already downloaded tuner pro and aujp1615,But I cant find the correct XDF, help w/ that would also be appreciated) Im going this route just to see if its something I can do.
Now back to the question. While using the scanner I noticed it never changes from cell 4 (there are however acurate map values). This is an engine swap so Im not sure that the VSS is hooked up, working, or even there. Am I wasting my time tring to tune this if im not getting a full scale of readings? Or is it possible that my blms are not even that bad?

thanks jeff

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

BLMs in the 150 range are way too high, there is some work that needs to be done or something is wrong.

stuck in cell 4 sounds like its not getting a good speed reading.
you can tune it in cell 4, but it won't be right until it starts going into the other cells.

burning your own chip is the way to go, you can make changes when you need to.
if you have someone else burn it for you, your stuck when you need to make changes.

getting the right XDF file shouldn't be a problem.
1227730_8D.ads is at http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm
there are others at http://www.moates.net/info_pages.php?pages_id=14
you'll probably want to use more than 1 XDF to start with. they each have something a little different to offer.

there is also S_AUJP4 thats out now. i have played with it & ran it in my car. it works great.
there is a big difference between it & the other AUJP def files & bin. to use S_AUJP4 you must get all the files for it, the def files for the regular AUJP will not work properly.
you can find them also at moates downloads in "Custom Modified Binaries"
the files you want are S_AUJP_V4 1024.zip & S_AUJP_V4 Inputs.zip.
there is a bit of added learning curve to S_AUJP4, but i think its worth it.

jcs64

While in cell 4, what does the puter think its doing? my guess is idleing.

Im thinking that if it was running that lean at 60mph, it wouldt last too long, but it seems to run great (if I forget about the gas mileage and the cell 4 BLMs).

I think I got the all the file stuff fingered out. Thanks

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

there is also canister purge that has a small effect on the AFR & i believe it also affects what cell your in.
i had intended to post these before.
they should you help with cell 4,

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-cell-4-a.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...-cell-4-a.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...on-i-need.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...cted-same.html

jcs64

OK, I got to use the scanner today and found out that there was NO speed reading! That would explain the cell 4 only problem.
I rolled underneath and there is a VSS there (Im pretty sure it not a camaro one though). Its screwed into the tail housing were the speedo cable goes, then the speedo cable screws into this. There are 2 wires plugged into it that run back to the ECM.
What kind of tests can be done to this sensor to check for out put?
Ive read about DRAC (no idea what that stands for) and buffer boxes, How do I know if I need one of these boxes?

jcs64

I just ran over to a friends house to look at his jeeps VSS. Looks like I have a stock Jeep VSS wired into my 730 ECM. Now I gotta figure out if there compatable, LOL!

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

For the wiring connections there are two possible ways on the 730.
If you use the "magnetic" type
Sine wave input, 2002 to 28,624 PPM adjustable within ECM
Set the bit at location L0018, bit 6 (aka Option word 3)
This would have the VSS wired into B9 (low) and B10 (high) on the ECM.
these are normally 4 pulses per revolution or 4000 pulses/mile (same thing)

If you use the "Optical" type
5 V SQ WAVE ,uses External DRAC Module, 2002 PPM input ONLY
Clear the bit at location L0018, bit 6 (aka Option word 3)
This would have the VSS wired into "C6" (high) on the ECM.
The DRAC converts an "optical" type output of 40 pulse/rev (AC sine wave)signal to a much lower frequency DC square wave
Lots of good info on the DRACs out there.
Do a quick search, couldn't make the links paste correctly.

The output to the dashboard could come from "B11"
Another possible output to the dashboard is B12 (2000 PPM)
or C1 that is 2000 pulse/mile for the cruise control.

Try changing the bit and see if that works before tearing into wiring.
Might get lucky.
HTH

jcs64

Ok thats Way to involved for me, I just started learning this stuff. Im lost on all the bit stuff still, I just started playing w/ tuner pro and can only make since of the stuff thats actually spelled out. (sorry for being a dummy)

Since I know Its currantly the Jeep VSS in there now, That has a pulse of 8000ppm (double what it should be). But, its not reading anything. Im seriously thinking of ordering this
http://www.aztpi.com/product.php?pro...&cat=20&page=1
and just being done w/ that problem. The tech on the phone seemed to know his stuff. I was told nothing else is needed in line (no buffer) and the wires go into the 24 pin connector at B9 and B10 (since im not factory color coded he said it dosent matter which one goes were).

What are your thoughts on this?

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

If its a magnetic type VSS then "Set" (or check) the bit at location L0018, bit 6 (aka Option word 3) in TunerPro/TunerCATS.
The number of pulses can be adjusted at location L0015.
Change it to 8000 and if the VSS signal is correct it will work fine.
I don't know what the signal from a Jeep VSS is.

The unit you found will work inline just fine if you need to go that way.
The same type of unit is available from "Jagsthatrun.com" as a "4PAC Integral" that goes into your transmission.
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/V8-chapte...ed-Sensors.pdf
(instead of inline like that one, don't need a speedo-jumper)
Was $99 when I bought mine, might be slightly more now.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

How can you be so sure it is a Jeep VSS?

jcs64

Sorry, I guess i wasnt clear on that, Ive talked about it in other post but forgot to say it here. This is a motor swap into a '90 wrangler.
I am now 100% sure that it is a jeep VSS.

I just went and traced the 2 wires comeing from that VSS back to the ECM, and if Im looking at it correct, they do go to B9 and B10.
Is there any type of voltage output or input test that can be done to be sure the sensor is getting power? (the way it is now, it seems as though there should be some type of reading on the scanner, even if its wrong)
After dinner im gonna unhook the wires and take it for a drive. From what I ve read about not having one, the engine should just about stall out while comeing to a stop. (which it dosent do now, Everything seems good performance wise)

Are there any pics of the pin locations online anywere so I can use it to help track wires?

jcs64

Absolutley no difference w/ it unhooked, no stumble, no stall, no hunting, not even the SES light!
What does this tell me?
heres a pic of the Jeep VSS

And heres a pic of were there wired to (sorry bout the crappy pic). The 2 green wires (one light green, the other dark) in the lower right are the owns coming from the VSS, Are these locations B9 & B10? Looking it the markings on the plastic clip, they actually correspond to A9 &A10 (Is one row A's and the other B's?) (Still gotta find a layout of them pins somewhere)


Really not sure what to do now. Should I buy that new VSS and get the stuck cell thing and speed reading taken care of first (and hope that fixes my milage and blms). Or should I just place my order w/ Moates so I can look at my BIN. and see whats up there?

HELP!!!!!

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~Johnand...0730%20TPI.pdf

This has a full pinout of the 730 that I made for my car.
Should give you what you need to physically ID the pins.

Sure looks like A9 & A10 to me too.

jcs64

Awsome printout!

OH NO! my wires are not even close are they.
Should I be scared to move them to B9 & B10?

The deeper I get into this, the more amazed I am that It even runs!

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

No problem moving them.
Be sure that the little blue clips can only go on one way and that they are not reversed for some strange reason.
I wouldn't think so but its best to check anyway.
Pop the A9 and A10 out and move them to the other row as B9 and B10.
I think you'll have speed then.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

jcs64, don't feel bad about not understanding what JP said yesterday, i don't either LOL, but i have made all the changes he is talking about. (i think JP does contract work on the space shuttle when their engineers get hung up on problems)
like he said, there is a setting you can change in the chip to make up for the faster pulse.

before i got a good speed signal to my ECM, i didn't have a lot of problems with my car dying when coming to a stop. occasionally it would do something strange like die or surge.
i used a ford cable driven VSS for a little while on my car, im pretty sure the jeep VSS works the same but im not certain.

to be honest, even if you get a good speed reading, i think you'll still want to learn to tune & burn your own chip anyway.
you can get better overall driveability & with a well tuned chip better fuel mileage too. after its tuned close, there is always hiway mode you can play with on top of it. these are things you'll never get from a mail order chip.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Close,
Just like to be complete with info I provide. Details can make all the difference to making something work or not.


And you'll probably spend less and learn more about how it really works.

jcs64

frustration is setting in.
I switched the pin locations to b9, b10 and hooked it up to the scanner for a test ride. You guessed it, nothing! Still in cell 4 and still no mph. I cut the 2 wires to the Vss and switched them, that also did nothing:-(
I Borrowed the nieghbors VSS off his Jeep and swapped mine out... no change
I put a continuity meter across the 2 wires and spun it... it beeped.
I hooked the meter on the wires up close by the Ecm and put the jeep in gear while on jack stands.... It was pulsing like crazy so I know its getting some sort of signal.
I set the meter to read AC voltage and as I increased the speed, the volts did respond (sorry, I forgot what they were) but I dont even know if thats testing anything.

Now what, LOL
does there need to be anything hooked up to A11 (4k/ mile output) or does ALDL link get the info for the scanner directly from the ECM. (not sure if that makes sense, just sayin that I dont have speedometer hooked to A11, if that matters.)
Is it possible the vss is turned off in the ecm?
I hate being so dam cheap! If i wasnt, I would just order the new Vss I listed above, order my list from moates and even add in the ALDL cable!
But alas, Im way to freakin cheap.
Any more thoughts or should I just buy the programing stuff and see whats in the chip.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

The only thing left would be to make the change in the chip and see if it will work as the "Optical" type and wire into "C6".
Without the ability to change the chip you can't try it yet.
Even so, if it did work you would have Jeep setup (4 pulses per rev instead of 40 or 8,000 pulses per mile) instead of the 2,000 that that input is looking for. You would need the DRAC module to convert the number of pulses.
The best low budget way would be to get the ability to burn a chip in there and try to make a DRAC work from the boneyard.
You might just have to bite the bullet and convert to the 4PAC or the one you found to use the "selected" magnetic in you bin.
Either way, once it works you'll need the ability to tune anyway.
Jp

jcs64

Did you ever just sit up in bed during the middle of the nite when something in your head made since all of a sudden?
Ive read JP's replys to me and kept seeing him mention C6 as an alternate pin. The only thing that stood out about that at the time was I got two wires and he only gave me one location (Im guessing because the DRAC takes in two wires and spits out 1?). Well at 2am this morning I remembered what was written on the side of my chip, and now it makes since.


This was on top, It says,: TPI-NOVATS, 4K speed in


So, once again I think I be on my way to fixing it. It looks as though "the guy" who did the chip at one time did change the settings, thats why Im not getting anything through B9 & B10.
What do you think?

Its off to Moates I go to spend some dough! (wow that was corny sounding)