Another Remote Mount Turbo System - Power Adder - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

89JYturbo · 05-03-2004, 07:52 PM

I have been intrigued with the remote mount turbo system ever since I first seen one of STS's systems. At first I laughed, but then I got curious. What if it would actually work? It would be the easiest way to add a turbo to almost any car! I decided I had to try it. I had a used turbo laying around from my TT Iroc project, and my daily driver '89 Cavalier Z24 2.8/5spd was ready and waiting. The wheels started to turn, and I took a friday and saturday off to see if I could build a quick turbo system. Started friday at 8am, and was driving a turbocharged Cavalier by 6pm saturday. I could have finished friday evening if I had found the proper oil pump the first time (I found that a carter gasoline pump and an old 6.5 diesel fuel lift pump did not work). I will have more pics and details soon.

89JYturbo · 05-03-2004, 08:10 PM

Here are some specs on the system:
*89 Cavalier 2.8 5speed, 174K miles
*Garrett T3 turbo from a volvo or saab- .42comp, .48turbine A/R
*Turbo put in place of muffler (no muffler was used, as the turbo itself quites down the exhaust effectively)
*2" piping fornt to engine, no IC, but charge temps under heavy load never over 120°F on 80° day (according to data logging scan tool)
*Turbo lubed with engine oil, pressure line T'd off at sending unit
*Oil pumped back to engine into front valve cover via a SHURflo 8000 series oil pump (purchased from local farm supply store)
*Factory internal wastegate, 6psi boost
*Turbo XS RFL blow off valve (sounds great!- it will be put on my TT Iroc once I get it back together, but for now it will stay on the Cavvy)

Before I get nailed with comments about how stupid this type of system is, I know this system is far from ideal. Remote turbo systems have been cut up in every post I read about them, and there are some good reasons not to turbo your car this way. But, it is the easiest way possible, it provides more turbo whistle noise (because the turbo is so close to the tailpipe), and it does work. If you want an all out high performance type system, build it the right way with turbo headers and the turbo as close to the exhaust port as possible (the high velocity of the hot exhaust aids in kicking up the turbine speed) and use a good intercooler. But if you want a quick and simple turbo system, this would bve an option.

I'm anxious to see what you all think!

Lee7 · 05-03-2004, 08:32 PM

so how much of an improvement?

bad_turbo · 05-04-2004, 01:36 AM

my friend did the same thing to his '98 chevy 1500. He loves it! It only makes about 5-6lbs of boost, but he gained 50-75 horses without having to do any other mods. Your Cavy looks great!

z_power · 05-04-2004, 06:26 AM

Hm, not trying to flame on you, but what's this poor turbo goin' to say whan a splash of cold water hits hot corpse?

Dustin Mustangs · 05-04-2004, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by z_power
Hm, not trying to flame on you, but what's this poor turbo goin' to say whan a splash of cold water hits hot corpse?

Yeah, I would think that could get ugly. Nothing that a simple sheild of some sort couldn't prevent though.

I was watching the video that is floating around of the fourth gen Z with the STS kit yesterday. One thing that I noticed is how bad the lag was. The kid would step on it from a stop, it wouldn't leave any rubber, and then a second or two later the turbo would spool and the tires would break loose. Not exactly the easiest way to win a race. I don't doubt that this setup can make power, but what drawbacks are you encountering with it 89JY, if any?

TPl383 · 05-04-2004, 06:53 AM

I have a spair 60/63 T3 I planed to do my 91S10 up with like this. Only diff is I pulled the Exh and mocked it up and plan to put it where the converter use to be.

Guido · 05-04-2004, 07:14 AM

How does the cavy feel? I imagine this setup DOES WORK as there has been documented success. It still looks funny. LOL

TPl383 · 05-04-2004, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Guido
How does the cavy feel? I imagine this setup DOES WORK as there has been documented success. It still looks funny. LOL

Looks can be deceiving..

Mmmmm, that t3 would be better sooted on our 2003 cavvy. to bad it would Prob void the warrenty. lol

askulte · 05-04-2004, 02:26 PM

Its cool to see folks trying things out, rather than just talking about it. I've been considering something similar for my Durango, mounting the turbo right before the cat at the Y-pipe junction, and couldn't find a sump pump for the oil. Thanks for figuring it out!

I checked the specs on the Shurflo 8000, and it lists a max fluid temp of 170 deg F. I'm sure the oil will cool down a little, but should be above that once you reach operating temp. Please let us know how the pump lasts, as I'm sure theres some safety factor in there.

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=145

87F383 · 05-04-2004, 02:35 PM

More Pics! I might do this to my SVX for fun!

83 Crossfire TA · 05-04-2004, 03:53 PM

I have to admit that I played with the idea of doing the same with my K1500 blazer (hell, it's not like it really needs the power all the time, just every once in a while when it's really loaded down, so who cares how well it spools, this is not about ultimate performance), just put it next to the frame rail where the big pellet cat goes, but the bizare fact is that there is actually more room under the hood for it then under the floorpan…

89JYturbo · 05-04-2004, 05:56 PM

I plan to take it to the track friday (Maple Grove has 'grudge racing' friday niights and it is 5 minutes from my house!). My NA best was very low 16s- hope to be in the 14s!

The turbo does lag, but if launched properly, even a lowly cavalier is all but ready to spin the tires thru first gear (even without any boost). I get about 2psi boost in first gear maxed out, but if I flat shift, I almost instantly have full boost in second gear. If you keep your foot in it (shift very fast) it doesn't ever go under 5psi boost, even right after a shift. The blow off valve helps keep the turbo spooled if you lift your right foot to shift. If I burry the throttle at around 1000rpm in second, the turbo slowly starts to spool (you can hear it), and at around 3000rpm, it just jumps from 0 to 6psi almost instantly- fast and hard enough to spin the tires (sometimes

). Oh yeah and you could also ask the late model celica and the two VW Jetta 1.8Ts how the cavalier runs- lets just say they were put in their proper place!

For those worried about splash water, it has been driven for a month rain or shine. No problems at all. The turbo is not directly behind the tires, so it only gets a little splash now and then. That said, it would certainly be a good idea to install a splash shield to make sure there are no long term effects.

The pump I am using for scavenge duty has higher temp diaphragm and valves, and is capable of 180°F fluid temps (PN 8000-643-236). I'm sure this is being exceeded when pushed hard, but I measured the turbo oil outlet hose the other day after a hard drive, and the hose was 155°F (according to my infared thermometer). Still, the oil temps propably do exceed the engineered limits of the pump occasionally. But at least with the turbo this far back heat is lower.

Here is a pic of the engine compartment:
Notice the cartech fmu in the upper right corner, and the Tubo XS BOV tht lets all the imports know what they are up against!

89JYturbo · 05-04-2004, 06:06 PM

As a side note, that oil pump was later mounted in the trunk of the car, as the saleman that I purchased the pump from said they are not reliable if they get wet. Since this is my daily driver, it cannot stay at home in foul weather, so I moved it since these pictures were taken.

Xceleratemaro · 05-04-2004, 07:21 PM

thats insane! man///im speechless probroly becouse i have a 92 cav and i want to do it! how much would you sell that set up for?

89JYturbo · 05-04-2004, 07:28 PM

I just got it installed! I'm not ready to sell it yet, but maybe for the right price?!

BBSDesigns · 05-04-2004, 07:53 PM

Hi 89YJturbo,

I always asked myself since I saw the first remote turbo; How is the turbo going to look like after a year of use? I suggest that you put antiseize in all the bolts that hold the turbo together. Its probably nothing, but I guess that all those bolts are going to be freezed to the housings with all the water and dirt they are going to catch back there after prolonged use.

The truth is that putting the turbo back where the muffler is, for cars with insufficient space under the hood is fantastic. We all know that is not the best place for performance, but it works.

83 Crossfire TA · 05-05-2004, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89JYturbo
[b]The pump I am using for scavenge duty has higher temp diaphragm and valves, and is capable of 180°F fluid temps (PN 8000-643-236). I'm sure this is being exceeded when pushed hard, but I measured the turbo oil outlet hose the other day after a hard drive, and the hose was 155°F (according to my infared thermometer). Still, the oil temps propably do exceed the engineered limits of the pump occasionally. But at least with the turbo this far back heat is lower.

You know, I've been thinking about that and had a couple of solutions. You could snag a PS cooler out of some cars (some just have a loop of hardline, but others, like some of the ford tauruses have an actual cooler mounted below the radiator) and plumb it inline to make sure whatever gets back there is actually cool, and if that idea doesn't excite you then I bet that if you used either a copper or aluminum line it would work almost as well as an actual cooler as long as it gets nowhere near the exhaust. Or you could just install a real oil cooler, but you shouldn't need the volume, somethign like a tranny cooler would be fine.

87F383 · 05-05-2004, 11:45 AM

I have absolutly zero knowledge when it comes to turbo sizing and the folowing question is indirectly related to the topic?

What turbo would I use for a remote mount turbo for a 3.3L H6?
It would need to be highly effcient at 8-10 psi (high compression).

I would assume it would be a smaller one than you would normally mount in the engine bay to reduce lag somewhat?

Forgive the not exactly 3rd gen question...

askulte · 05-05-2004, 12:45 PM

87F383 - Honestly, who cares!

Since the rear mounted turbos are more of a ghetto-rig (no offense to anyone, they can be well done, but not ideal in the engineering design sense), a turbo in the ballpark will be just fine. Going for the extra 1% in efficiency may not even be noticed, especially if you're not doing custom fuel/timing maps, etc. Pick a turbo smaller than usual, since you'll have much less exhaust heat to drive the turbo back there. Just about any factory 4/6 cyl turbo would work for your purposes... Talon, Omni, etc...

87F383 · 05-05-2004, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by askulte
87F383 - Honestly, who cares! Since the rear mounted turbos are more of a ghetto-rig (no offense to anyone, they can be well done, but not ideal in the engineering design sense), a turbo in the ballpark will be just fine. Going for the extra 1% in efficiency may not even be noticed, especially if you're not doing custom fuel/timing maps, etc. Pick a turbo smaller than usual, since you'll have much less exhaust heat to drive the turbo back there. Just about any factory 4/6 cyl turbo would work for your purposes... Talon, Omni, etc...

I care about this style set up for that particular car because there is zero room under/above/around that flat 6 for anything with all the ABS/AWD equipment under the hood. I on the other hand have stock muffler big enough for a freightliner so remote mounting the turbo is a very viable option for me even if it is "far from ideal".

85berlinetta2.8 · 05-05-2004, 08:33 PM

so lemme get this right, you got a turbo at the end of your exhaust, and piped and intake tube all the way to the front?

thats pretty cool...
what were your track times?

is there any way you could have placed the turbo closer to the front? like behind the wheel well plastic and pipe the exhaust out the side?

great work!

how does it drive?

89JYturbo · 05-07-2004, 09:58 PM

Just got back from the track. I ran at Maple Grove's friday night grudge match (nice name for a test'n'tune). I was pretty happy with the results:

Pass 1- 14.956@93.57, 2.416 60ft
Pass 2- 14.794@94.19, 2.333 60ft

I am curious what I could run if I could get a respectable 60ft time- I suspect mid-low 14s. I never drag raced FWD before, and it is very hard to launch. I am not very good with RWD, and even worse with FWD! Even still, it should be capable of surprising a lot of people. Remember, this is a daily driver with 174k, and a turbo system built in approx 24hrs. I am tempted to install those 24# SVO injectors I have and turn the boost to maybe 10 or 12PSI. I really want the high 13s to show my ford buddies that an old cavalier can put the hurt on a 5.0!

Oh yes, and what about my T4 conversion kit I bought off eBay- I could convert the turbo to a hybrid T3/T4. That should help it run better as well.

85berlinetta2.8 · 05-08-2004, 02:45 PM

why not run an intercooler into the bumper and spray the intercooler with water the whole way down? or is that not a good idea

onebadwagon · 05-08-2004, 11:26 PM

i have a good idea, just get rid of your heat and a/c, and make make a new metal heaterbox, and just put the turbo behind the dash!!!

adam

85berlinetta2.8 · 05-08-2004, 11:49 PM

im pretty sure the gmhpm has a 1200hp stock looking 4th gen with that done

SLP-GTA · 05-09-2004, 12:21 AM

Over second reduction, what was your MPH before the turbo?

Also what about a seperate oil tank, mount both tank and pump in the trunk with a PS cooler, that would be a slick idea, no.

mefreema · 05-10-2004, 11:08 PM

I have thought about using engine vacume to return oil from a remote turbo setup but cant figure out how to seperate it and return it to the pan once it returns to the motor. I guess you could just send it down the intake if it were a 2 stroke like my dirt bike!

stevedave454 · 05-10-2004, 11:15 PM

a few price questions...

how much was the shurflow pump?
how much was the IC piping?