hilljackofdenile

I have read a bunch of stuff online and have learned a lot from it. I have one question thought... All of the literature talks about tank capacity in terms of weight, such as a 10lb or 15 lb tank, and I assume that’s how much nitrous it can hold which is a good way to express the amount of nitrous a bottle can hold. However I have much experience in paintball and we use a ton of compressed air so I’ve learned a lot about regulating high pressure air, or CO2. CO2 is measured in weight, such as a 12oz tank, or 20oz, ect. but compressed air or N2 tanks are measured in PSI and capacity in ci's, standard tanks are either 3000 or 4500 psi, and can range from 48 ci to bigger, some people have even used small scuba tanks, I am wondering why you cant just use a tank with a higher pressure, and then regulate it down to say, 900 or 1000 PSI, that would increase the reliability on pressure, and you could squeeze more in... perhaps I am just mistaken about the liquidation pressure of N20, I know that N2 or compressed air takes a ton of pressure to liquefy it, so if the pressure to liquefy N2O is very high, then this should work right? and could you just use a scuba tank if you have the room? oh and one more thing... sorry this is more than one question... If all the N20 is doing is trying to squeeze in more oxygen, then why cant you just use compressed air, or pure oxygen? I mean, that’s how a super or turbo charger works right, just using the engine or exhaust to compress more air to go into the engine, why not just bottle it before hand? Plus, I can get a 4500 PSI 114 ci compressed air fill for about $4 rather than like $50 for a nitrous fill, but then again I don’t know how much a 114 ci 4500 PSI fill weighs, hm, maybe I’ll figure it out with some chemistry and math. Thanks for your time.

Apeiron

Compressed air contains too much stuff that doesn't burn, and pure oxygen is just too dangerous.

hilljackofdenile

but if a supercharger, and turbos are just pumping in compressed air, then why not just bottle it before hand, and then regulate it to whatever pressure a supercharger or turbo would pump into the cylinder?

and is there any reason why a higher pressure tank couldnt be used as long as it were regulated to somewhere between 900-1000 PSI? I would think that regulating it from a higher PSI would be adventagous because there will be no fluxuation in pressure downstream from the regulator untill the bottle pressure goes below the regulated pressure. And there is no shortage of pressure regulators, my paintball gun is dual regulated, one on the tank, to i think 900 PSI, and one on the gun which which is adjustable, and also adjusts the velocity and is set to somewhere around 800 PSI I would think that this would be better if you want to keep the pressure constant. dont you?

or is the N2O already liquid at what ever pressure they fill the bottles to? and therefore a higher pressure tank wouldnt have any effect unless it were just bigger?

[This message has been edited by hilljackofdenile (edited September 23, 2001).]

Jester

Do the math..and you'll see why it can't work.

114 ci @ 4500 PSI equates to xxxx cf @ say 20psi.

Then figure out the consumption in CFM of a 350ci motor at 20psi up to say 6000rpm.

Take into account also the max flow of any readily available regulator

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a73camaro

If your gonna carry your oxidizer (air) on board, you need to carry a lot of it. The best way to do that is in liquid form. There are 10 to 100 more molecules in liquid than in gas for the same volume.

Liquid oxygen is a cryogenic liquid. That is, you have to keep oxygen at -200°F just too keep it in the liquid form. Hard to do, plus liquid oxygen is very corrosive.

You would need a lot of pressurized air to get any gains from running compressed air. And you would need big tanks.

N2O lends itself out as a very good candidate for a power adder. Liquid at room temp, non hazardous, inert at room temps, and has an oxygen molecule. In order for the nitrous to be in liquid form, pressure of about 1000 PSI needs to be applied to the liquid. This is done at initial fill up. As nitrous is used up, some of the liquid vaporizes to maintain the high pressure within the tank, so the liquid "self-regulates" the pressure. Plus tanks don't need to be nearly as rigid for N20 than compressed air.

Good thoughts and questions.

hilljackofdenile

ah, thank you very much, that answers my questions very well.

IROCKZ4me

One more small point I didn't see (but may have been posted.)

Air is roughly 21% oxygen.
Nitrous oxide is roughly 33% oxygen.

Injecting a given amount of nitrous into the intake will supply more oxygen then compressed air.

Not only is oxidation (rust, corosion) a problem with using pure oxygen but violent combustion with extremely high heat would be a problem.
The Nitrogen element of nitrous oxide slows and cools the combustion procces. Without it your pistons would look like someone took a cutting torch to them. Not to mention the extreme danger of a leak!! Things that are not easily combustable in normal air can burn violently in pure oxygen.

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Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

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askulte

Another small detail - LOX (liquid oxygen) faces a very high risk of a catastrophic fireball explosion. A nitrous leak is nothing. Nitrous is not flammable as it does not release its oxygen molecule at room temperatures.



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Andris Skulte
Skulte Performance Designs
Z28tt-89 IROC T56 DFI Twin Turbo
http://www.skulte.com

hilljackofdenile

okay, so do you know at what temperature nitrous decomposes at? I'm just wondering if you have to run your car hotter than 190* or if you can run it with say a 160* thermostat.

Apeiron

The thermostat has nothing to do with it.