Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
#1
Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Figured I would start up this last thread, and this will be the final one. I'm essentially picking up where I left off but with a few changes. The car is originally a 1990 Trans Am GTA w/LB9 engine, T-Tops, T5 transmission, and 3.42 gears out back. The stock engine was pulled out due excessive engine wear, and it just wasn't feasible for me to rebuild it. So in went an earlier 305 (310, bored .030 over) block that I had from a previous build, along with a later 700-R4 transmission. The factory serpentine setup was removed in favor for the earlier v-belt setup. You will notice how the stock alternator doesn't reach the older bracket so I had to improvise just for the time being. The wiring too will be tucked away, but all of that was done just to get the engine running after the swap, and the swap was successful...
Finished a set of 416 cylinder heads for this project awhile back, but they were scrapped due to a few discrepancies in favor for a set of 187 cylinder heads that I recently finished up. The heads still need to get the EGR ports filled, but the porting itself is finished though. Once that is taken care of, they will be installed with the factory centerbolt valve covers, 1.52" roller tipped rockers from CompCams, and a set Cometic MLS head gaskets bringing compression down to a tad over 8.5:1. I scrapped the stock distributor w/external coil setup as well in favor for an earlier "fat cap" one, just four wires (inversed) and it's done, and I only really did that to provide for a more broader area for the rotor and terminals under the cap, as well as reducing clutter...
Have many pics that I will be uploading as time allows, but for now two basic ones. The first picture just shows the earlier 305 (310) block in the GTA before the 416 heads were removed that was installed a few months ago, and the second picture shows the basic turbo header setup that I put together using an old Edelbrock header setup. The wastegate flange is behind the T4 turbo flange, making the connection to the downpipe a breeze. The headers are getting a special coating that is good for up to 2500 degrees, not that the exhaust will even see 1700 degrees, but before I send them out I only have one last piece to weld and that is a bracket from the bottom of the turbo flange to the header flange, for additional support. More pics will be added when I put the 187 heads on...
Finished a set of 416 cylinder heads for this project awhile back, but they were scrapped due to a few discrepancies in favor for a set of 187 cylinder heads that I recently finished up. The heads still need to get the EGR ports filled, but the porting itself is finished though. Once that is taken care of, they will be installed with the factory centerbolt valve covers, 1.52" roller tipped rockers from CompCams, and a set Cometic MLS head gaskets bringing compression down to a tad over 8.5:1. I scrapped the stock distributor w/external coil setup as well in favor for an earlier "fat cap" one, just four wires (inversed) and it's done, and I only really did that to provide for a more broader area for the rotor and terminals under the cap, as well as reducing clutter...
Have many pics that I will be uploading as time allows, but for now two basic ones. The first picture just shows the earlier 305 (310) block in the GTA before the 416 heads were removed that was installed a few months ago, and the second picture shows the basic turbo header setup that I put together using an old Edelbrock header setup. The wastegate flange is behind the T4 turbo flange, making the connection to the downpipe a breeze. The headers are getting a special coating that is good for up to 2500 degrees, not that the exhaust will even see 1700 degrees, but before I send them out I only have one last piece to weld and that is a bracket from the bottom of the turbo flange to the header flange, for additional support. More pics will be added when I put the 187 heads on...
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
sweet. lets see lots of pics and videos!
#6
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Guys, it's going to be interesting when the heads and cam are installed. The Tuned Port Injection system that I am putting on is fully siamesed, the only stock part will be the twin blade 48mm throttle body, and I matched the cam with that ahead of time. Even with the low 8.5:1 compression I am very very curious to see what the engine will make before the turbo goes on, so I will be hitting a local dyno to see what she will be making at the wheels when I tune the engine. In terms of the turbo and wastegate, the turbo is a T72 with .96 a/r, and the wastegate is a 46mm unit that I only have one spring for so far, 16-psi. Should be able to hit my goal at around 25-psi, but more on that later...
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
25 Psi. Thats what I like to hear.
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
That passenger side header design looks good.
Is it really gonna make it to the track this year for 9s? I don't care about the 9s, but seeing a MPH would be nice.
Is it really gonna make it to the track this year for 9s? I don't care about the 9s, but seeing a MPH would be nice.
#10
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by junkcltr
That passenger side header design looks good. Is it really gonna make it to the track this year for 9s? I don't care about the 9s, but seeing a MPH would be nice...
#11
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
$8D? Isn't that the 060 boxe's code? Do you have any boosted code for this ECU? I'm going to try and use one for a standalone 4L80E controller and piggy back with my MS2 right now. If it works I'd be very interested to see how that rolls.
#12
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by Drac0nic
$8D? Isn't that the 060 boxe's code? Do you have any boosted code for this ECU? I'm going to try and use one for a standalone 4L80E controller and piggy back with my MS2 right now. If it works I'd be very interested to see how that rolls...
#13
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
whoops the box I have is $0D not $8D. Fart of brain, what can I say it's Friday.
Eric is a smart cookie, don't have much of anything on him. I know of more than a few Buick guys that rock his chips out b/c they work.
Eric is a smart cookie, don't have much of anything on him. I know of more than a few Buick guys that rock his chips out b/c they work.
#14
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Still waiting on the EGR passages to be filled, as I am ready to just say screw it and just rely on the EGR blockoff plate, but I would rather that the lower intake manifold not be subjected to that much additional heat from the combustion chambers. Already started putting together my own version of $8F w/$8D, so it should be interesting when the first chip goes in. The 187 heads aren't as bad as people say they are, maybe in stock form they are, but they clean up really well. I wanted to open up the exhaust ports very substantially, and they came out decent. Here is a picture of the outer ports to compare with the inner ports (valve guides were removed entirely). The bowls though came out freaky (in a good way)...
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
nice! im interested in the $8D boosted code
#16
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by 34blazer
nice! im interested in the $8D boosted code
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Will do Joe, it's basically a compilation of the $8F and $8D. Those little 3.1 McLaren engines were grossly underrated if you ask me, didn't even occur to me that they came with 19-lb injectors from the factory until I looked at the tune. Up the injectors and turbo's on those little 3.1 motors and they should really move. I'd like to get my hands on a 3.1 Camaro after this build, turbo it and run that code as a commuter car...
#18
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by 34blazer
actually they were 22lb/hr injectors, theres one for sale on another forum i browse if you want it...
#19
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Build looks good so far Rob. You know I'll be watching if you ever build one up so I can lean some more about what I "should" have done and get more ideas. You ever build something up then over time see all the things you did worng or would now change?? Thats how I have been feeling about my build lately.
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/fs-1...r-t118026.html
six shooter might be able to chime in, or a couple of other peeps. ive always read that the TGP engine had 22#ers
six shooter might be able to chime in, or a couple of other peeps. ive always read that the TGP engine had 22#ers
#21
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by fasteddi
Build looks good so far Rob. You know I'll be watching if you ever build one up so I can lean some more about what I "should" have done and get more ideas. You ever build something up then over time see all the things you did worng or would now change?? Thats how I have been feeling about my build lately.
#22
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Easy enough to do yourself honestly, you got a propane burner of some kind? Even an old hot water heater burner and a small pot will do enough aluminum to get the job done. Stick some clay in the bowl to hold it in, then melt and pour away.
I don't think the 187s are a bad head at all especially not for a boosted application. I mean shoot what does a GN run stock with 25% less CID and ports not to mention heads that make a 305's head look good. Sure the bore is 65 thousandths down in size but I doubt it would matter that much with as much of a flow difference as there is. Hell the other thing is due to the valve spacing unless you get aftermarket heads you're not going to even hit a stock 305's valve size that can go up to 1.94 if you put in aftermarket valves.
I don't think the 187s are a bad head at all especially not for a boosted application. I mean shoot what does a GN run stock with 25% less CID and ports not to mention heads that make a 305's head look good. Sure the bore is 65 thousandths down in size but I doubt it would matter that much with as much of a flow difference as there is. Hell the other thing is due to the valve spacing unless you get aftermarket heads you're not going to even hit a stock 305's valve size that can go up to 1.94 if you put in aftermarket valves.
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
that header looks pretty cool. cant wait to see some good stuff here
#24
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by Drac0nic
Easy enough to do yourself honestly, you got a propane burner of some kind? Even an old hot water heater burner and a small pot will do enough aluminum to get the job done. Stick some clay in the bowl to hold it in, then melt and pour away...
Originally Posted by brando54009
that header looks pretty cool. cant wait to see some good stuff here...
#25
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Still waiting on the EGR passages to be filled, as I am ready to just say screw it and just rely on the EGR blockoff plate...
#27
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Found an industrial foundry that will fill it with aluminum for me. Some of my Turbo Buick buddies talked me out of using nickel and said that aluminum works fine for their engines with upwards of 30-psi of boost pressure, so aluminum it is. It's bothering me that the fill isn't going to be 'fused' to the cast iron, but if it's been working all this time for these guys, then I won't argue it...
????
Originally Posted by mw66nova
uh.....
#28
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Lower intake manifold was fully ported and siamesed by the runner entries. The runner entry ports were siamesed up until the middle of the EGR block off plate area, and the ports leading to the cylinder heads on the flange were opened up substantially, and also port matched to the 187 cylinder heads. Take a close look at what I added up top. To the left of the water neck you will see that I drilled and tapped for a coolant port fitting, and also drilled and tapped for another one (the larger one) to the right of the distributor hole. This was done to essentially hide the braided heater core lines for a clean cut appearance, and to keep them out of harm's way, away from the downpipe...
#29
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
The stock runners were treated to a little porting as well. Now, we cannot change the overall diameter of the runners, and in stock form they are very inadequate for any SBC, even a 305, to be honest. But since the runner entires were siamesed on the lower intake, the runners don't really have to be any larger anymore as each intake port on the cylinder head is now feeding from two runners instead of just one, essentially doubling the runners' size. They were smoothed and siamesed a little as well to help with a faster intake charge, as well as transition...
#30
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
The plenum was also siamesed by the runner inlets, and the throttle body bore orifice was completely opened up, and the walls on the lower side were removed entirely. No obstruction whatsoever. Planning on using the stock throttle body, but with a few minor changes though, but more on that later...
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Looks good Rob. Keep it coming.
#34
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by -fasteddi
Looks good Rob. Keep it coming...
Originally Posted by mw66nova
i do not see 9 second equipment here...
i'm glad to see you're doing it though...but i don't think it'll go 9's with the current setup.
i'm glad to see you're doing it though...but i don't think it'll go 9's with the current setup.
#36
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
I don't think it will be deep 9s, but between boost and the jug it should shave something in the 9.90s I think. Provided the SB doesn't go first and the 60 foot is a quarter decent. I think it would be easier with a true port injection intake and in turn more cam (making affective power nearer 6500-7K) but I don't think it's impossible on a TPI especially a modded one.
#38
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
Originally Posted by Drac0nic
I don't think it will be deep 9s, but between boost and the jug it should shave something in the 9.90s I think. Provided the SB doesn't go first and the 60 foot is a quarter decent. I think it would be easier with a true port injection intake and in turn more cam (making affective power nearer 6500-7K) but I don't think it's impossible on a TPI especially a modded one...
Originally Posted by mw66nova
why are you using 187 heads?
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
25, 30 psi means nothing to me. What's the CFM going to be like at 3,000, and 6,000 rpm ?
-- Joe
-- Joe
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
i don't see 9's either, but i am very interested. i would love to be proven wrong on it. i like the different thinking you are doing with everything, and on paper, it makes sense. would like to see some flow #'s from the heads, too. i had some cnc ported patriot stage 2 heads for my LS1 that looked great, but made quite a bit less power than out of the box 243 heads did.
if you can make ~600rwhp with it, then you should have enough as long as the car works great and is somewhere around 3100-3200ish lbs. what are the specs on the drivetrain/suspension/car weight?
if you can make ~600rwhp with it, then you should have enough as long as the car works great and is somewhere around 3100-3200ish lbs. what are the specs on the drivetrain/suspension/car weight?
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
I could build a 9 second motor with ease, but getting the car to pass tech for faster than 10.99 is another story all together..
-- Joe
#48
Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
I guess for the sake of this thread I can throw up the final cfm numbers with these cylinder heads, but to me it isn't quite as important in comparison with the ports flowing equally, because I already know that these heads flow better than any ported LC2 head, which see nines regularly after being ported. Joe, I have learned in the past that boost pressure is meaningless, it just measures resistance, but I dropped that attitude and learned to respect boost pressure again with turbo's as it becomes very ciritical when measured in conjunction with exhaust back pressure. Remember that this build isn't focused on supercharging or natural aspiration, and camshaft overlap is very critical in terms of how much horsepower the engine will be making with a turbo charger at a targeted RPM, as overlap increases peak cylinder pressure and narrows the power band, so saying that we don't see nines with this build before even knowing the cam specs is still very speculative. This car came with a T5 from the factory and I swapped in a 700R4, I never said I will be running a T5, especially since I already mentioned the coming stall speed. Still early in the game though, will have more posted up soon as I just got back from going away during the labor day weekend break.
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
I guess for the sake of this thread I can throw up the final cfm numbers with these cylinder heads, but to me it isn't quite as important in comparison with the ports flowing equally, because I already know that these heads flow better than any ported LC2 head, which see nines regularly after being ported. Joe, I have learned in the past that boost pressure is meaningless, it just measures resistance, but I dropped that attitude and learned to respect boost pressure again with turbo's as it becomes very ciritical when measured in conjunction with exhaust back pressure. Remember that this build isn't focused on supercharging or natural aspiration, and camshaft overlap is very critical in terms of how much horsepower the engine will be making with a turbo charger at a targeted RPM, as overlap increases peak cylinder pressure and narrows the power band, so saying that we don't see nines with this build before even knowing the cam specs is still very speculative. This car came with a T5 from the factory and I swapped in a 700R4, I never said I will be running a T5, especially since I already mentioned the coming stall speed. Still early in the game though, will have more posted up soon as I just got back from going away during the labor day weekend break.
I'm more curious than anything. I don't care if it goes 9s, 10s, 8s, or takes flight. I don't have the ambition to have a car certified that quick anymore, so I'd rather trap 130mph on street tires (on fire)
-- Joe
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Re: Chronicles of a 9 Second 305 Trans Am, Finally V3 Thread....
I am cert to 10.0 and not sure i will get everything else for 9.99. Just way to much crap to deal with. 9 sec license? You kidding me? I tune this on the street you dont think i can handle making a pass on a sticky track? Lol
Oh on side note what software you have? Care to model mine? I am curious cuz injector pw in logs is showing 86% cycle duty with 115 lb injectors. Most calcs put that at 1000-1100. I only have 11 psi in the motor so far
Oh on side note what software you have? Care to model mine? I am curious cuz injector pw in logs is showing 86% cycle duty with 115 lb injectors. Most calcs put that at 1000-1100. I only have 11 psi in the motor so far