Figured I would start up this last thread, and this will be the final one. I'm essentially picking up where I left off but with a few changes. The car is originally a 1990 Trans Am GTA w/LB9 engine, T-Tops, T5 transmission, and 3.42 gears out back. The stock engine was pulled out due excessive engine wear, and it just wasn't feasible for me to rebuild it. So in went an earlier 305 (310, bored .030 over) block that I had from a previous build, along with a later 700-R4 transmission. The factory serpentine setup was removed in favor for the earlier v-belt setup. You will notice how the stock alternator doesn't reach the older bracket so I had to improvise just for the time being. The wiring too will be tucked away, but all of that was done just to get the engine running after the swap, and the swap was successful...

Finished a set of 416 cylinder heads for this project awhile back, but they were scrapped due to a few discrepancies in favor for a set of 187 cylinder heads that I recently finished up. The heads still need to get the EGR ports filled, but the porting itself is finished though. Once that is taken care of, they will be installed with the factory centerbolt valve covers, 1.52" roller tipped rockers from CompCams, and a set Cometic MLS head gaskets bringing compression down to a tad over 8.5:1. I scrapped the stock distributor w/external coil setup as well in favor for an earlier "fat cap" one, just four wires (inversed) and it's done, and I only really did that to provide for a more broader area for the rotor and terminals under the cap, as well as reducing clutter...

Have many pics that I will be uploading as time allows, but for now two basic ones. The first picture just shows the earlier 305 (310) block in the GTA before the 416 heads were removed that was installed a few months ago, and the second picture shows the basic turbo header setup that I put together using an old Edelbrock header setup. The wastegate flange is behind the T4 turbo flange, making the connection to the downpipe a breeze. The headers are getting a special coating that is good for up to 2500 degrees, not that the exhaust will even see 1700 degrees, but before I send them out I only have one last piece to weld and that is a bracket from the bottom of the turbo flange to the header flange, for additional support. More pics will be added when I put the 187 heads on...

 

V3 is finally here

 

sweet. lets see lots of pics and videos!

 

subscribed

 

Yes yes. Do it now!!!! Get to de choppa!!! Btw bout time.

 

Guys, it's going to be interesting when the heads and cam are installed. The Tuned Port Injection system that I am putting on is fully siamesed, the only stock part will be the twin blade 48mm throttle body, and I matched the cam with that ahead of time. Even with the low 8.5:1 compression I am very very curious to see what the engine will make before the turbo goes on, so I will be hitting a local dyno to see what she will be making at the wheels when I tune the engine. In terms of the turbo and wastegate, the turbo is a T72 with .96 a/r, and the wastegate is a 46mm unit that I only have one spring for so far, 16-psi. Should be able to hit my goal at around 25-psi, but more on that later...

 

25 Psi. Thats what I like to hear.

 

subscribed

 

That passenger side header design looks good.
Is it really gonna make it to the track this year for 9s? I don't care about the 9s, but seeing a MPH would be nice.

 

I will honestly have the engine back together in no time, and once the headers and everything get back from the coating I will have the turbo and wastegate on there immediately, but essentially setting the wastegate close to 0 boost so I can re-install and run the '7730 because I'm getting the itch. It would be nice to test a boosted code for the $8D just to get it over with, then switch back to flash when it is done. I'd be happy seeing 135-mph too...

 

$8D? Isn't that the 060 boxe's code? Do you have any boosted code for this ECU? I'm going to try and use one for a standalone 4L80E controller and piggy back with my MS2 right now. If it works I'd be very interested to see how that rolls.

 

I sold an XFI unit a few weeks ago with a 66 BB turbo, but I still have a classic FAST system for a V6 that I need to eventually convert over to V8, just need a harness adapter to make that happen. Joe (anesthes) has me considering a boost encoded $8D, but some serious changes need to be made then added. Have no problem using this project to test it all out, as I think by the time I get the headers back from coating we should at least have a rough compilation put together, that's if everybody can work together on this. Something similar to what Eric Marshall did with his velosyty chip for the $58, Click Here...

 

whoops the box I have is $0D not $8D. Fart of brain, what can I say it's Friday.

Eric is a smart cookie, don't have much of anything on him. I know of more than a few Buick guys that rock his chips out b/c they work.

 

Still waiting on the EGR passages to be filled, as I am ready to just say screw it and just rely on the EGR blockoff plate, but I would rather that the lower intake manifold not be subjected to that much additional heat from the combustion chambers. Already started putting together my own version of $8F w/$8D, so it should be interesting when the first chip goes in. The 187 heads aren't as bad as people say they are, maybe in stock form they are, but they clean up really well. I wanted to open up the exhaust ports very substantially, and they came out decent. Here is a picture of the outer ports to compare with the inner ports (valve guides were removed entirely). The bowls though came out freaky (in a good way)...

 

nice! im interested in the $8D boosted code

 

Will do Joe, it's basically a compilation of the $8F and $8D. Those little 3.1 McLaren engines were grossly underrated if you ask me, didn't even occur to me that they came with 19-lb injectors from the factory until I looked at the tune. Up the injectors and turbo's on those little 3.1 motors and they should really move. I'd like to get my hands on a 3.1 Camaro after this build, turbo it and run that code as a commuter car...

 

actually they were 22lb/hr injectors, theres one for sale on another forum i browse if you want it.

 

Were they really? Could have sworn the NA 3.1's were 16.7 lb/hr and the 3.1 turbo's were a 19.7 lb/hr. How much are they asking for it...?

 

Build looks good so far Rob. You know I'll be watching if you ever build one up so I can lean some more about what I "should" have done and get more ideas. You ever build something up then over time see all the things you did worng or would now change?? Thats how I have been feeling about my build lately.

 

http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/fs-1...r-t118026.html


six shooter might be able to chime in, or a couple of other peeps. ive always read that the TGP engine had 22#ers

 

That's definitely a good thing Mark. When you get situated with the new house, you'll be able to focus over the winter on some of the changes that you want to make. This is why I am so adamant about Grand Nationals with my build, as I have been following them for years, and pretty much see a distinct advantage that the 305 has over the 231. I'm still waiting on the EGR passages to be filled, as the guy I normally went to in Brooklyn is not there anymore, and nobody in Jersey will do it for me. Thinking of getting just the two ports on the wall welded shut as opposed to filling in the entire passages, as my only concern is avoiding excessive heat in the intake manifold...

 

Easy enough to do yourself honestly, you got a propane burner of some kind? Even an old hot water heater burner and a small pot will do enough aluminum to get the job done. Stick some clay in the bowl to hold it in, then melt and pour away.

I don't think the 187s are a bad head at all especially not for a boosted application. I mean shoot what does a GN run stock with 25% less CID and ports not to mention heads that make a 305's head look good. Sure the bore is 65 thousandths down in size but I doubt it would matter that much with as much of a flow difference as there is. Hell the other thing is due to the valve spacing unless you get aftermarket heads you're not going to even hit a stock 305's valve size that can go up to 1.94 if you put in aftermarket valves.

 

that header looks pretty cool. cant wait to see some good stuff here

 

You know, I was seriously considering this. I was going to make a small copper block off plate for the EGR port facing the intake manifold, drill two holes through it that line up with the bolt holes, then bolt it down ensuring that the melted aluminum doesn't spill out, and more importantly, doesn't stick to the copper plate when removed. Face the EGR ports upwards by sitting the head that way, then pouring it in. My main concern is the different expansion rates from the heat under boost though, which is why I hesitate using aluminum to fill the iron head. Was thinking of melting nickel with a plasma cutter, but getting it in, rather "funneling" it in there is going to be key...

Thanks brando...

 

Almost said screw it, but rather than just run the EGR block off plate on the intake manifold I decided to weld the EGR port shut on the cylinder head. The weld is deep, so even when I grind/smooth down the weld it is still very deep into the other side, and when it is smoothed down you won't even see it was there. I would still like to have the entire EGR ports filled through the entry in the exhaust bowls on the other side, but worst case scenario, if I can't find a decent foundry that will do it for me I'll just leave it as is. Gonna start on the other one right now, will probably have it smoothed down sometime tomorrow though...

 

uh.....

 

Found an industrial foundry that will fill it with aluminum for me. Some of my Turbo Buick buddies talked me out of using nickel and said that aluminum works fine for their engines with upwards of 30-psi of boost pressure, so aluminum it is. It's bothering me that the fill isn't going to be 'fused' to the cast iron, but if it's been working all this time for these guys, then I won't argue it...

????

 

Lower intake manifold was fully ported and siamesed by the runner entries. The runner entry ports were siamesed up until the middle of the EGR block off plate area, and the ports leading to the cylinder heads on the flange were opened up substantially, and also port matched to the 187 cylinder heads. Take a close look at what I added up top. To the left of the water neck you will see that I drilled and tapped for a coolant port fitting, and also drilled and tapped for another one (the larger one) to the right of the distributor hole. This was done to essentially hide the braided heater core lines for a clean cut appearance, and to keep them out of harm's way, away from the downpipe...

 

The stock runners were treated to a little porting as well. Now, we cannot change the overall diameter of the runners, and in stock form they are very inadequate for any SBC, even a 305, to be honest. But since the runner entires were siamesed on the lower intake, the runners don't really have to be any larger anymore as each intake port on the cylinder head is now feeding from two runners instead of just one, essentially doubling the runners' size. They were smoothed and siamesed a little as well to help with a faster intake charge, as well as transition...

 

The plenum was also siamesed by the runner inlets, and the throttle body bore orifice was completely opened up, and the walls on the lower side were removed entirely. No obstruction whatsoever. Planning on using the stock throttle body, but with a few minor changes though, but more on that later...

 

Nice. Looks good so far

 

Looks good Rob. Keep it coming.

 

i do not see 9 second equipment here...

i'm glad to see you're doing it though...but i don't think it'll go 9's with the current setup.

 

Thanks Mark. Stall speed, cam specs, turbo, wastegate, bov, injectors, etc, all coming up soon...

I appreciate the criticism...

 

Thanks Orr...

 

I don't think it will be deep 9s, but between boost and the jug it should shave something in the 9.90s I think. Provided the SB doesn't go first and the 60 foot is a quarter decent. I think it would be easier with a true port injection intake and in turn more cam (making affective power nearer 6500-7K) but I don't think it's impossible on a TPI especially a modded one.

 

why are you using 187 heads?

 

That is exactly what I am after, either a 9.99, or at the very least, a 135-mph trap. Know quite a few guys who are running mid tens with less cam, less heads, less turbo, and two less cylinders, so technically it should happen provided I hook well, and that the drive-train holds together. Main difference with the Buick guys is that trans-brake...

Technically, other than the casting number, they are far from 187 heads now. However, I went with them because I already had them, so I just dedicated a few hours to opening them up. There was no need to have them cut, which was another plus, because they gave me the static compression that I was after in stock form, in turn allowing me to take advantage of my effective compression. Exhaust and intake ports flow just as good as any aftermaket set, valve guides were removed, swirl ramp was removed, and the combustion chamber was opened up to unshroud the valves. Once the heads get back from getting filled it all gets polished. They are far from a stock 187 cylinder head, now...

 

Speaking of compression, I went with a set of custom Cometic MLS gaskets awhile back...

 

sub'd.........again

 

what do those heads flow now? did you have them put on a flow bench?

 

25, 30 psi means nothing to me. What's the CFM going to be like at 3,000, and 6,000 rpm ?

-- Joe

 

i don't see 9's either, but i am very interested. i would love to be proven wrong on it. i like the different thinking you are doing with everything, and on paper, it makes sense. would like to see some flow #'s from the heads, too. i had some cnc ported patriot stage 2 heads for my LS1 that looked great, but made quite a bit less power than out of the box 243 heads did.
if you can make ~600rwhp with it, then you should have enough as long as the car works great and is somewhere around 3100-3200ish lbs. what are the specs on the drivetrain/suspension/car weight?

 

i don't understand the t5 either...

 

if he's running a t5 i can confidently say the car will never see 9's. maybe not even 10's.
if its a 700r4 it will need to be a very expensive one.

 

Yeah a tbrake launch is what i think this setup needs to have a shot at 9.99 if its not much over 600whp and under 3400 lbs. my car was closer to 700-750 and squeeked 9's on a weak launch at 3500's lbs

 

Do you guys have all the SFI stuff to pass tech in the 9s?

I could build a 9 second motor with ease, but getting the car to pass tech for faster than 10.99 is another story all together..

-- Joe

 

I guess for the sake of this thread I can throw up the final cfm numbers with these cylinder heads, but to me it isn't quite as important in comparison with the ports flowing equally, because I already know that these heads flow better than any ported LC2 head, which see nines regularly after being ported. Joe, I have learned in the past that boost pressure is meaningless, it just measures resistance, but I dropped that attitude and learned to respect boost pressure again with turbo's as it becomes very ciritical when measured in conjunction with exhaust back pressure. Remember that this build isn't focused on supercharging or natural aspiration, and camshaft overlap is very critical in terms of how much horsepower the engine will be making with a turbo charger at a targeted RPM, as overlap increases peak cylinder pressure and narrows the power band, so saying that we don't see nines with this build before even knowing the cam specs is still very speculative. This car came with a T5 from the factory and I swapped in a 700R4, I never said I will be running a T5, especially since I already mentioned the coming stall speed. Still early in the game though, will have more posted up soon as I just got back from going away during the labor day weekend break.

 

I know what you are saying. I have some fairly expensive software that I can model the combination with to get a rough idea of how much power it will make and where.

I'm more curious than anything. I don't care if it goes 9s, 10s, 8s, or takes flight. I don't have the ambition to have a car certified that quick anymore, so I'd rather trap 130mph on street tires (on fire)


-- Joe

 

I am cert to 10.0 and not sure i will get everything else for 9.99. Just way to much crap to deal with. 9 sec license? You kidding me? I tune this on the street you dont think i can handle making a pass on a sticky track? Lol

Oh on side note what software you have? Care to model mine? I am curious cuz injector pw in logs is showing 86% cycle duty with 115 lb injectors. Most calcs put that at 1000-1100. I only have 11 psi in the motor so far