Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

So I was going over my last logs at the track with the new MAT sensor in place, and I'm a little surprised at my findings. The car would start off at the line at 101* and by the time I hit the top of first (10psi) I'm at 150* temp. Second would bring me to 171* and when I'm done third I peak at 197*. It kind of makes me wonder is this intercooler really doing anything lol. I do have a custom scoop on it which is much bigger then stock, probably helps a little. I'm wondering how this compares to other people's setups?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

My last pass on my car was 106 deg at line and after 10.5 seconds at 12 psi, went to 135.5 deg F

You need an intercooler and maybe a better cold air intake to the blower. Or meth

Guest

Why in fak are you using a procharger IC in the first place..........

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Well it's kind of what came with the kit lol! You know of something better I'm all ears?

For the people that don't know what it looks like



I have a much bigger scoop on it now but this gives you a idea

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I can't imagine sucking air up from the top of the header is helping. With my temps being at what they are do you believe there is much to be gained with lower temps? I've never really came across any good articles or what not on this topic.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lower temps are everything when pushing limits of a tune. If you are happy how it performs then keep it as is.

If you want more you can certainly get alot more. Meth injection is easiest bet, and added octane will help. In general cooler temps will allow more aggressive tune up. At 190+ deg i would be nervous with tune. Most start pulling timing above 150 deg, some sooner to be safe.

My buddies built whipple 5th gen made more power on pump 93 plus meth than it did on pure c16 race gas. Charge cooling made tons of difference.

With your intercooler mounted that way its not going to be as efficient. Mine is open to 140 mph air so it gets great flow.

But intercooler quality makes a huge difference to. Have you measured pressure drop? Local import shop tested a super high quality expensive air to air cooler on a 600 awhp evo againsts a cheap ebay cooler of same dimensions. Ebay one saw 60 deg or so temp rise on a dyno pull while the high quality one saw less than 6 deg rise! It was a drastic difference. Car with ebay cooler needed to dial back timing which ate up power.

So you can have good gains if you want them.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

With my tune I drop 1* from 34 total for every psi, seems to work fine. At the track recently I tried a lower spark advance and the car did not like it so I'll leave it like that for now.

I'm not a fan of the meth kits for just the maintenance of it but I will look into maybe a new intercooler down the road. I have see a test of what a better quality intercooler can do for temps so that does appeal to me, just got to figure out who sells a good one. Unfortunately I might have to stick with the same location...

I haven't measured pressure drops though I believe that was prochargers claim with this style of intercooler. Kind of looking at it I can't see it causing to much of a loss.

Think I'm going to look at getting some test equipment and see if I can't improve something or at the very least find out where the problem is.

Does anyone know of some thermometer type-K kits that look good in a car?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Can you mount a mini fan on the back side to help suck more air thru?

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Quite possible, that idea was running through my head though you think it would make much of a difference?

I'll have to taka a picture of my bigger air scoop, you would think it would be enough to direct more air in...

Guest

I have a CX racing IC
25 x x 12 x 3
$100
Alot better than prochargers junk ICs.
-even their "race" IS is junk...a guy had his blow the entire weld seam and on single digit PSI boost. It was brand new and Procharger said that he caused it and was SOL.

--go look up the cost of 1 too.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I have a treadstone and its been working. Look into their larger units

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

For a $100 it would be a cheap experiment. You got any intake temp data or info on your setup? What's your boost at too?

Guest

not yet...

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Had a good look at all the intercoolers on those 2 websites had to offer, think this one might fit if i kept the same location http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...cooler++1000HP

I'll take some measurements tomorrow.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm running one of those as well.



Plumbing is a little different as I'm running an LS2 throttle body on an elbow now, pointed towards the right shock tower.

-- Joe

Guest

$450! No way...he just needs a $100 CX IC.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

That does seem to fit in there nice... Though you have a formula and the nose doesn't sit as low as the T/A, you probably get better air through. Have you logged any temps at full boost with it yet?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hey Tony,

Nah I have not logged a thing other than idle IAT's. I'm using a toyota IAT sensor because it's very fast.

I'm running an 82-84 nose with the grill vents, and my crash bar is cut up to allow extra air entering the grills.

Non-ac car, the IC is where the AC was.

I wish they made an aftermarket FMIC bumper cover for the firebird that didn't look like it came out of the fast and the furious.

I've considered the duraflex one, and altering it but I don't even know if it can be made to not look ghettofabulous.

http://images.extremedimensions.com/...tremefront.jpg

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You do get what you pay for with intercoolers

Guest

He drives a 3rdgen...like the rest of us. He works daily for less than hes worth and barley gets by.
(like the rest of us)
New on MTV's "true life"
"The Daily Life and Struggles of a Thirdgen Driver"






-The CX IC will do him just fine, plus hes not making big power anyways.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

True but if you can afford afr's and a procharger, whats a goood intercooler?
Idk anything about cx racing other than they are cheap priced and big on ebay. Cheap and ebay usually arent great but can get you by

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

On I gave up worrying about cost on this car a long time ago lol! As long it's within reason...

Big power is not my only concern, fitment and to keep a clean look is what I try to strive for. I'm also thinking down the road mods as well. But so far it's the only intercooler that seems to fit that I'm finding. Still like to do some tests before I rip anything apart though. Have a few ideas how to set this up though I'm wondering if I can tap into my 3" intercooler piping with some 1/8 NPT fittings and not have it leak or blow out.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Wow what is some front clip! Would give you plenty of air though, you would never have to worry about cooling after that lol!

I'm still curious how street lethal's T/A bumper cutout is going to look after its all done. To me that would make the most sense.

TurboedTPI

Orr, you sir, are 100% correct. As with most race car stuff, you get what you pay for.

86Z

iTrader: (4)

have no issues with my procharger 3 core intercooler.....

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Har. Speak for yourself.

-- Joe

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Have you ever tested the intake temperature on a 1/4 mile run with that thing? Also is it setup like the the instructions lying flat?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I think you could use more airflow across the cooler but also curious what others are seeing for temps with coolers laying flat

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i did not test the intake temperature on my 1/4 mile runs, i did on the dyno with a fan in front of it, don't know the number off the top of my head.

yes, it's laying flat.

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i'm going by an old log, when i ran a data log, i started off with 85.25 degrees mat temp, then made an 11.77lb boost pull mat temp was 83.75 degrees.

GenX'Motorsport

Tony. I also have my procharger intercooler mounted like youres (Sideways). Instructions say to mount it opposite, Vertically. Anybody know what mounting style would be more efficent? Maybe procharger's way of mounting it would be better?? Anybody?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It will look very similar to this, do you see how nice the cutout blends in...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

It depends on the airflow. Straighter shot thats exposed to the most air should cool best. These cars are known as bottom feeders for the radiator air. That factory airdam brings flow up into that space between rad and nose and it works its way back thru via the fans. 4th gens even better with their laid back rads. With an intercooler in front that hurts air flow to rad because now fans have to pull thru that thickness. If cooler is to close to rad it will get heatsoaked even tho it gets better shot at fan pulled air.

So i think the best method is front mount vertical with direct flow from nose. This is easily done on camaros. Not so much a bird.

With the birds sideways could work with proper air dam/scoops, but i think a small fan mounted on backside would go a long way to help cool the cooler. If there is enough room to mount vertically, maybe try an air dam under the cooler as well as the factory one for the rad, and still try to place a small fan on backside of cooler to pass air back to rad since it may not get as much flow from the air dam area with the intercooler having its own airdam

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

You probably have the old original sensor in there the one that's identical to a coolent sensor. Those ones would only show 4* difference on my logs. I have a LT1 sensor in my intake piping now but you could put a V6 sensor in yours with the open element.

Unless something's changed over the years my old instructions say to mount it horizontal. For the camaro you are probably better off doing it vertically though you would have to redo the connecting pipes.

That does look pretty good, something to think about for sure. Anymore pics of that car?

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

his intercooler is mounted the right way procharger says to mount it >86z also uses meth injection also .I would invest in meth inj to lower those temps instead of buying an intercooler imo

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

http://www.snowperformance.net/stage...st-cooler.html shop around and find it cheaper Amazon has them for $360

Guest

Get out-

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

That is cheap, thought they were more money. You might be right though, I'm kind of limited on space and that would be a quick fix. It looks like it can be a clean install too, but what do you think a 100* drop in intake temperature would add to my setup? Going to need to really look into these things.

I also did some measuring of my intercooler and space that I have available, my intercooler currently has a core dimensions of 6"x26.5"x3", overall about 11"x26.5"x3" if you don't count the weird shape of the feed and exit port. I have the space to fit 11.5"x33.5"x3.5" and could probably squeeze 12" wide if need be. Honestly the one I linked before that does 1000hp is not much bigger in dimensions though it is thicker, maybe something that draws the air crossways would be a better setup?

Have some more pics of my intercooler scoop setup

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Two less cylinders, way smaller cam, smaller compressor wheel, but now ask me what it ran...

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Haha I'll bite! What did it run?

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

if you look at some dyno numbers on their website they have a mustang made add. 90+ hp with a procharger

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

10.0 @ 130+, the only thing Turbo Buick guys look at is how much fuel they are burning, that is how they calculate their times. If they aren't burning enough fuel, then they don't blame the cam, or the heads, they simply get a bigger turbo. Your same setup with an F1A will annihilate your current times, so before you consider a heads and cam swap, consider a larger head unit, or simply go the turbo charger route. Your IAT's are definitely hurting you, methanol is a must at those air temps your running...

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i didn't see any 1/4 mile times posted, i run 14 lbs now on my d1sc, tony has some room still

i just looked at tony's car domain page, i'm loving that pic of how that front end came up, looks like you were running slicks? what was your 60' time? have you dyno'd that combo yet?

it was my 2nd time at the track and i left the line like a wuss

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Figure out if it is the IC or the compressor. Put the IAT sensor before the IC and measure temps, then put it after and measure temps. Either the IC is not doing the job or way out of efficiency range of the compressor or taking in very hot air.

Could also get creative and put an pre-IC IAT sensor, and use the coolant sensor plug into it. That way you measure before and after IC simultaneously. Since your pre-turbo IAT is roughly same as coolant temp it shouldn't be too much of problem but for safety may disable CLT lookup for injector BPW when trying this.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the hijack, but I have to ask.

Is that a stock cam and heads on the 305ci running 14 PSI?
What is the octane and timing at 14PSI?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I wouldn't quote a time of a car that I didn't know, that car belonged to Steve Kaminski during that time, he sold it, and is now currently trying to get it back. That right there should underline it for those who are in the turbo world. The new owner dropped in a Stage II Buick V6 with much bigger turbo, the car now runs low nines. But back then when Steve owned it during the time that video was taken it was a 10.0 car. Steve also put an LC2 in a 4th gen as well, and is well known among the Buick boys. He even talks about that Black TTA in this article..

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...turbo_charged/

86Z

iTrader: (4)

no i'm running a crane 2032 roller cam and world products s/r torquer 305 heads with 1.6 rockers, 93 octane with methanol injection the 11.77# run was 25.31 degrees at 5150 rpm's

my tune stayed basically the same aside from some fueling with the smaller pulley to bring it to 14psi

Guest

Any vids?

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Interesting way of looking at it, my goal was to spin this D1SC as much as possible and if I can't get the boost I want then upgrade to the F-1A or if a used one pops up somewhere. I think my main thing going for me is having low compression, about 8.3 roughly so I think pumping up the boost should work out for me. Just got to figure out these intake temps.

Thanks man, I used to get 1.7 average and sometimes dip little lower, but no dyno results.

That's brilliant! I'm going to pick up another lt1 sensor and gromit for the pre-IC and tune out the tables that need it. Thanks for the idea!

86Z

iTrader: (4)

really? i did a 1.79 60' on drag radials, i think i was only leaving around 3k rpms, it didn't feel like the nose lifted at all, what RPM did you leave the line at?