pianiy

iTrader: (2)

I've discovered some very little known/discussed information regarding the 1LE setup. According to the Parts and Illustrations Catalog that I have on microfiche there are FOUR different types of A-arms made specifically for f-bodies equipped with different tires and/or 1LE. Yeah 4 of 'em. I'll break it down as best I can.

15" wheels (P215/65R15 tires) LH 14063561
15" wheels (P215/65R15 tires) RH 14063562
1LE package LH 12505473
1LE package RH 12505472
QLC package (excludes 1LE) (P245/50ZR16 tires) LH 14091391
QLC package (excludes 1LE) (P245/50ZR16 tires) RH 14091392
QPE package (P215/60R16 tires) RH 14094518
QPE package (P215/60R16 tires) LH 14094519

These designations (QLC/QPE) will only be found in the parts and illustration catalog - I don't think you'll find that information anywhere on your car - so you'll have to know what your car came with originally to know what kind of A-arm you have. For example, my Firebird originally came with 15" wheels thus I have the first A-arms in the list.

I've found that after my 1LE swap, my wheels rub more, particularly when in reverse. As I haven't had an alignment done (yet) the steering wheel is now cocked 15* CW in order to go straight. The car will actually track straight without my hands on the wheel during acceleration, coasting or braking so the toe was apparently altered the same on both sides. I have also noticed that my front wheels now stick out farther than my rear wheels and it wasn't quite so noticeable before the swap.

I have a spare A-arm that I had restored sitting here that I was going to put on when I got a chance and I've looked it completely over yet cannot find a PN.

My theory is that there really aren't any different stops in the steering boxes, rather the stops are different on the A-arms themselves and that the A-arms themselves are shaped differently. I don't think one may be stronger than the other as my stock 15" specific arms are pretty hefty - built strong enough for a 1LE equipped f-body even.
It really isn't too difficult to modify the stops yourself - you just have to drill out the rivets, drill new holes and fasten the angles into their new locations. So anybody looking to stop the rubbing can actually do this probably without having to remove the A-arm and without having to replace the steering box. There are two different types of stops though: ones for 15" wheels and ones for 16" wheels. The parts listing doesn't specify whether there are special 1LE stops or not, I'd assume they just used the 16" wheel stops. Here are the part numbers for these:

15" LH 14019309
15" RH 14019310
16" LH 14069487
16" RH 14069488

I have just acquired a supposed quick ratio WS6 steering box and was going to swap it last night until I realized I'll need new power steering hoses as removing the old ones will crush them. BUT, I did notice that my 91 L03 base Firebird is equipped with a steering box with the Z stamped on it apparently denoting that it is a quick ratio box. Upon raising the front tires and turning the wheel lock to lock, I've found that its pushing 2.5 turns (probably close to 2.4 turns). After doing the same to the quick ratio box that I was going to install, I found it to be exactly 2.25 turns lock to lock. I'm still going to swap (won't be till next week) to see if I gain anything out of it (really can't hurt) but I doubt that the wheels will rub any less than before - probably an A-arm issue.

Input?

edit: I made a couple discoveries since my original thread so I editted this one with all the new information to lessen the confusion that people are bound to have - and its definitely confusing.

Ukraine Train

keep us posted! where on the box is the Z stamped? i got a 91 z28 parts car and i dont see the Z stamped on it anywhere, or any other letter for that matter. my 16" irocs rub on my SC that had 15" wheels stock but the tires arent even turned that far and my turning radius is huge so i'm gonna try the '91 box and get an alignment after redoing my sleeves and tie rods and see what happens

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

The Z is stamped right near the top of the box, if you're looking down at it its rotated slightly toward the fender side. It should be quite easy to pick out even under grime.

BretD 88GTA

This is the first I've heard of the 1LE set-up changing the front wheel offset. I am aware that the Baer kits do this, but not the 1LE. Hmmmm.

The difference in the A-arms I would think would be that for the 1LE they may be stiffer and use a better bushing, similar to what the rear 1LE LCA's are like. I can't say for sure though.

Where specifically are the tires rubbing?

Also, did you modify your stock spindles or were you lucky enough to get your hands on some 1LE spindles?

JMatlock88

Stands to reason... all of us who ordered the firehawk rims from ronal had to use spacers in the front. I was told it was because of the 1le rotors or spindles, but I suppose it could be the supposed 1le a-arms just as easily.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Bret: I modified my own spindles and I have to check to see exactly where the tires are rubbing but for sure on the forward inner bead, quite possibly the forward outer bead now.


edit: I put all the new information into the original post.

Justins86bird

Perhaps the 1LE a-arms are made of thicker metal to make them more ridged??

The 1LE rotors move the wheel farther out then the stock disk rotors do.

Omega

iTrader: (1)

I would like to make a suggestion to those who have a 1LE car. I by all means do not expect ANYONE to take their a-arm off just for kicks but we REALLY need the dimensions of it. Obviously the bushings are the same... perhaps the balljoint is a heavier duty/larger version? I wonder if the 1LE one is a hair shorter to bring the wheel back in a little. Does anyone have the wheel base (front to rear AND FL to FR) dimensions? Also, anyone with spare a-arms would be a saint if they took the same measurements of a 15" and 16" (rim) version.

I would also like to point out that the brake conversion was the only variable that piany changed. He didn't lower it or anything to cause wheel rubbing.... which it looks like he hasn't mentioned.

Interesting stuff

99Hawk120

The A-Arms pobably come assembled from GM, so my guess is the only difference between the 1LE/non-1LE a-arms is the control arm bushings. As far as the rest, the a-arms have metal stops and rubber bump stops on them as well, so maybe those changed.

My car came with 14" rims originally (damn V6) and I'm running 255/50ZR16s up front with very little rub (full lock in reverse only). I did however install an AGR steering box and a set of new bump stops as well as poly a-arm bushings.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

The parts and illustration catalog has ONE listing for bushings - they were the same for whatever A-arm came on your car 1LE or not. The bump stops are a separate item that can be interchanged, I don't know the listing on them - doesn't matter.

We're talking about a physical size difference between the A-arms - there HAS to be. GM provided different and interchangeable turn stops for different wheels and the different A-arms for different packages.

Oh and Tim, about the wheel rubbage, read closer in my original post

Omega

iTrader: (1)

I bet that you rub more when you suspension is compressed and you are turning though.

I agree that the bushings are all the same. Take a look at PST or Guildstrand... their kits are not WS6/1LE/whatever specific.

99Hawk120

The bushings may be physically identical, but that doesn't mean they're the same. The 1LE lower control arms in the rear have harder durometer rubber bushings. Maybe the front a-arms are the same.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Why is this such a difficult concept? The OFFICIAL GM PARTS AND ILLUSTRATION CATALOG has only ONE listing for bushings for the A-arms. What does that tell you? That there may be more?

99Hawk120

Settle down Beavis.

GM's been wrong before, you know.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Nevertheless, different bushings won't change the offset.

99Hawk120

No, they won't, but they might account for the different part #s.

And I have 1LE brakes on my A-Arm which were originally 14" tires (I don't see a part # for them, did they use the 15" ones?)... and I don't have any noticeable rubbing problems. (Certainly not more than I had before.)

I'm not exactly sure why you're convinced the A-Arms have different offsets just because they have different #s.

onebad82z

iTrader: (7)

1LE rotors move the wheel and tire combo out 1/2" more than the stock 10" brake rotors.If you measure from the rotor/brake surface to where the rim bolts onto the rotor hat..the 1LE rotors are half an inch thicker.When I did the conversion my front track width increased 1" on my '82 Z28.There is also older posts on here about this,I did a search and found a few results about the difference.

99Hawk120

(Shrug). I never noticed. I would think it would rub less being wider... mine always hits on the inside of the splash guard, not the edge.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

Ok, one small note, I'm looking at the illustration and listing for 91-92 and no 14" wheels came on cars in those years, therefore there won't be a listing for an A-arm with 14" wheels. I'll pull up the drawings for earlier years when I get a chance.

I don't see the reasoning here if the bushings are separate parts and have their own part numbers while the A-arms are separate parts and their own part numbers regardless of the bushings that may be pressed into them. You don't list a complex part as one part number then have separate parts within it without their own part numbers - its not logical.

So what else could account for the reason my wheels are farther out now besides the rotors?

99Hawk120

Replacement purposes.

Same way the LCAs have one part numbers, and come with bushings, but I can also get separate bushings.

Anyway, they got rid of 14" wheels long before 91-92... mine's an 84--I think they may have kept 14s up to the end of the sport coupe in 87, not sure.

P195/70R14

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

What I'm trying to ask here is did original 1LE cars come with front wheels with larger offsets than those of non-1LE cars and did those offsets make the tires stick almost past the front fender and consequently have a larger overall wheel base than the rear wheels?

99Hawk120

As far as I know, the wheels are NOT different. Every one I've ever seen has been the same offset. Keep in mind the TTAs had 1LEs stock, and I think they had standard GTA wheels.

Get ahold of some TTA guys and ask them to measure their stuff.

Omega

iTrader: (1)

Part numbers for TTA/1LE rims would also confirm or deny that theory also.

99Hawk120

We could probably get some information on the TTA / non-TTA crosslaces pretty easily. In fact, I've got a set of crosslaces in my backyard that came off an 86 TA.

Pianiy, you should be able to get ahold of Turbo Steve and have him check the wheels on one of his many TTAs.

pianiy

iTrader: (2)

The steering box I installed is indeed a quick ratio box having 2.25 turns lock to lock.

The old box that came out of my car also has the Z stamped on it but its 2.75 turns lock to lock.

FYI.

AFrikanGoodTime

I can tell you for certain that '87 Iroc rims have different offsets front and rear. You can not put a rear on the front without a spacer, it will rub against the brake caliper.