MrDude_1

lets start by saying this is NOT a debate of cutting springs Vs other methods of lowering (including drop springs)


i just want to know how many of you have DONE it. you dont have to reply to vote.

if you did more then one, but also cut them please vote that you cut them.. for example: if you cut your lowering springs. or if you have spindles in front and cut stockers in back. ect...



im getting curious because the more i research into it, the more people i find that do it. its extremly popular in other cars, autocross, and other handling setups.. alot of people get straight rate springs that they need, then cut to ride height..


im fully aware of the "right" and "wrong" ways to cut springs
i know it does increase the oscillation frequency, so you need better dampeners to handle it

this is NOT a debate, just a poll of how many people do it on thirdgen.

if you want to share any tips or how much you cut off out of what kind of spring, please post.

nolanr0413

i havent done it yet , but when i get a chance this year i plan to cut the rears . I have sportlines and they still arent low enough in the rear , the stance is still too raked. I plan on using a hack saw when i do it. I think a half a coil is enough, i dont wanna but too much off and have the rear lower than the front.

MrDude_1

half a coil is alot dude... pull out your isolators in the rear if you havent..... then if its still too tall, cut a 1/4 coil...

kevinc

Moog 5662 front springs, I ended up removing 1/2 coil to get the ride height correct.

Pneumatic cutoff tool using a Hummer wheel from Sears works great, keeps the heat buildup manageable if you go slow and take breaks.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I've cut springs, I've heated springs, I've swapped in springs from other models. . . I now use a different method: racing springs with adjusters.

Go to www.afcoracing.com and look at the 'adjustable spring spacer'. Just did a set on an earlier f-body and it is the only way to go. Need to use a spring that is flat on one end. AFCO also sells these.

RBob.

nolanr0413

1/2 a coil is too much . I allready too the insulator out and used a piece of tubing and tape so it wont squeak. I guess when i do it its gonna be a 1/4 coil at a time.

400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

I did cut my coil spring

Dale

iTrader: (12)

rbob...

springs, then coil spring sliders?

what type of spring did you use with these?

btw, what diameter are our springs?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not sliders, adjusters. Check out the pic of the adjuster, the upper cup gets trimmed with a 1/4" deep helical cut (I used a bench grinder) to fit the upper spring pocket.

The top of the spring is flat, as ground by the manufactuer. This end goes up against the adjuster. The bottom of the spring is just like a stock spring and fits the lower a-arm pocket.

The adjuster has a threaded section with a round threaded plate on it. The flat end of the spring rests on the plate. Rotating the plate adjusts the ride height.

On the earlier f-body I used the AFCO #20191 adjuster and #20550 spring. The spring is 550# rate and 5 x 9.5" dimension.

I don't know what diameter spring the 3rd gens use.

Below is a pic of a Landrum adjuster with spring. This is from Carl's website at: http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

RBob.

Blk84CamaroZ28

How much did you cut 400Z28Racer?

I am planning on using spring clamps that I already have, until I can purchase a set of springs or better yet some air-ride springs. Because I want to dropped it a lot, I am just unsure where's the best place to clamp the springs. I'm thinking the bottom portion will be better for the rear and the top portion for the front. Because I think these area's are used less often/only for bigger bumps.?

I remember in a magazine someone installed a set of air springs on an old mustang and he said it rides like a mercedes.?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Hey, Blk84,

Welcome to TGO. Take note that the last post was from 2004. Perhaps you should start a new thread.

JamesC

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

1 coil in the rear, 2 in the front...rear needs more cut but requires shorter shocks so springs don't drop out when susp. is in full droop.

before


after

Norm Peterson

If you want it 'slammed', wait until you can get the Air-Rides.

Clamping a spring down to make the ride height lower by more than just a little - I'm thinking maybe 3/4" maximum here - will make you bottom it out a lot more and it may fatigue the spring on you so that it either settles further or breaks. Springs do not get enough stiffer as fast as you make them shorter, whether you make them shorter either by cutting or by clamping. Key words "enough stiffer". I've done both cutting and clamping of springs, but for reasons that differed somewhat from yours.


All of the 'active' coils get used all of the time. Some springs are designed such that the coils on one end are more closely spaced than the coils at the other end, in which case the close spaced coils will bottom out against each other first and become "inactive". They may even be bottomed out with the car just sitting there, in which case clamping the coils gains nothing, but may put you at risk if that end of the car goes light enough over the right (wrong?) sort of road contour that heaves you up as you go over the crest.


Norm

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

1- coil clamps just won't work... not only do they damage the spring, but there just isn't room for them in the front spring pockets.

2- the amount to cut to get a specific ride height depends on the specific springs. Twin Turbo, there is NO WAY that you cut that much off of a set of early trans am springs (which usually match the later WS6/Iroc springs, but typically camaros have softer springs in the back with the same suspension combination). On any of the performance V8 springs a full coil in the front will put you on the bump stops hard enough that you'll contact the frame with the front control arm in the back, and 2 coils in the back will put you at a good ride height but the spring rate will go sooo high that the car will be unsafe to drive like that. Maybe with some V6 or base firebird/camaro springs, but not TA springs.

With any of the factory, V8 performance springs what I recommend is dependent on what ride height you're looking for. What I really liked, but is probably too much for most people is cutting a full coil off the front, and 1/2-3/4 coil in the back, and then swapping the front and rear spring isolators (the fronts are about 1/4" thick, the rear are between 1.25 and 1.5" thick), that will give you spring rates slightly higher than eibach pro kit springs, but a very low ride height, I would estimate it lowers the front about 2.5" and the back around 2". With tall tires on the car (26.5" in the front, a little over 27" tall in the back, most people are running about 25.5-26" tires) that put my front cross member about 2.5" off the ground on my '83 (my wife actually got it stuck on one of the gas station tank filler caps that they have sticking up above the concrete, and I managed to dent up a couple of tranny pans and replaced crushed exhaust every few years, but it was worth it, absolutely badass stance and it did incredible at autox events, I believe that Dean runs about the same height in his V6, but I don't know what springs he uses). Doing that I ended up with a measured spring rate of 890lbs/in in the front and right around 200 in the rear.

If you want a more normal "lowering spring" ride height, I would suggest the same front to back front isolator swap, and cutting 1/2-3/4 coil in the front and 1/2 coil in the back. I know that people are going to want to take more out of the back (eibachs and other similar after market springs lower the back a little more than the front, this will lower it about the same), but the problem with the stock springs is that they have few coils that a small change makes a dramatic change in spring rate and the car really needs a rather soft rear spring that you can't cut too much off (and someone is going to say "but I cut a full coil off mine and it's fine," well great, for tooling around on the street, but for any serious handling it's unsafe, if you stiffen up the rear suspension too much you'll have major over steer).

V6 and base model V8 springs are much taller uncompressed, start with much softer spring rates and you can cut them much further, I suspect you'd end up with something closer to some eibach sportlines. I have a set that I planned on trying it on, but never got around to doing it.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

A few things to add:

1. I just saw Chip Foose cut some springs on overhaulin right before they gave the car back because he wasnt happy with the stance. Im no fan of Chip Foose but some really high profile guys have no problems with doing it.

2. I cut the coils on my car. On the stock springs - from my research on here, the rears are progressive rate and the fronts are regular. You generally cut twice as many coils on the front as the rear to keep them balanced, that means if you cut half a coil off the front, 1/4 coil in the rear. The spring rates in the rear go up MUCH faster than the rates in the front, if looks are all you're after, cut away, but the fronts and rears have to be balanced.

3. For me, I was trying to get 1 inch of drop, and I figured out the Best way to do it is to cut a 1/4 coil off the rear and remove the isolators and cut 1/2 coil off the fronts. I kept the front isolators, though. I just used 1/2 inch ID heater hose around the rears I beleive.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Here's a nice example of a torch job that is dangerous, the spring falls out under full droop and it's completely crooked, it could break any moment



That's on my new ride... and the stance is still a little high in the rear (just like my 82 trans am)

Norm Peterson

Yikes!

I'd first worry about it fracturing somewhere in that rusty area just above the axle side perch, after which time the worry about the pieces falling off the car gets a whole lot more urgent.





Norm

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

That rusty spot is where it was torched, from the looks of the rest of the spring they were brand new, the black coating is perfect everywhere apart from there.

Norm Peterson

Yes.

Aside from all that distorion in the first coil, I would not bet against it having a few hard spots induced by a carburizing flame or a few little notches if the flame went oxidizing. I've seen springs that looked like that fail in service. Might still have a piece of pigtail souvenir laying around the place.


Norm

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

exactly, that's why it's very dangerous and I'm replacing these. I posted this to show what it looks like so people can swap out the springs if they find something like this.

85Z28NOS

iTrader: (2)

I installed 1" lowering spring and wasnt happy with the ride height so I cut half a coil and still wasnt happy so I pulled them a third time and cut another half a coil for a total of a full coil and was content. Rides good, height ok, overall happy. Also cut a full coil for my brother on his 92 RS to lower his stance and was very happy as well

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Twin turbo, try some f-body springs in it if you have some extras. A non pig tail end will fit in the top pocket on the g-bodes, and the f-body springs tend to run a bit softer making them perfect for lowering a g-body.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Without the pigtail up top the spring will move around in the square box and i don't think it's designed for it. I have some f body springs lying around. If I do it I may just fab a retainer that captures the larger spring diameter and has a hole in the center for the spring mount on the top.

I think A body springs have the pigtails on both ends, I may try some of those

knight123

iTrader: (4)

cut front 5662 springs just a little more thaqn 1/2 a coil. Car sat at 29.5 inches from top of wheel well to ground on both sides after install - with them cut I'm now at 27.5 which looks much better.

Drove the car a bit and it does not seem too harsh and I'm guessing I'm about 780 instead of the 705 the spring rate s best i can figure.

Str8upChevy

Maybe for some people, but definitely not for me. I started out cutting a 1/2 coil off the front AND the back, but it barely even lowered my car. (I couldn't tell I even touched it)

I ended up pulling my front springs out 3 times to cut a total of 1-1/2 coils. I pulled my rears out 4 different times to cut a total of 2 full coils. My goal was to get rid of every bit of wheel well gap there was, and basically that's what it took to do it.

Does it ride a little stiff?......of course it does. Is it something that bothers me?.......not even a little bit. The only thing I do different now than I did before I lowered it is, I have to go slower over speed bumps and I pull into driveways a little slower.....that's it. I love the way it looks and it rides just fine for me.

ShMaCk2004

I cut a full coil off my front lowering springs. I might cut a half off my backs because the back is higher than the front or i'll just take the isolator out.
They are ebay lowering springs and they are now really that bad at all.
The only reason i cut them was because the front end raised up because of the LS1 being lighter than the 350 i took out.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I took 1/2 coil out of my base model V8 front springs to bring the nose down after my LSx swap

1/2 coil equated to about 3" of drop

Havent noticed any difference in the handling

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I've cut springs on my 91 TA and on my 86 IROC.

I cut 1/2 coil front and rear on the TA and all the isolators are in place, it sits pretty good I think.




I cut 3/4 coil out of the front of my IROC (my rear has a leaf spring so it doesn't apply here) and its almost too low. 3/4 coil put me about 1/2" off the stock bumpstops. I have some NAPA replacement bumpstops on it that are a tad shorter so I'm a little over an inch off the front bumpstops now. THe pic below shows how low the front is. I can't fathom how you guys are cutting 1-1.5 coils off the front. You have to just be on the bumpstops all the time and don't know it. If I would have cut 1 full coil I would have been on the bumpstops completely I'm sure.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Be very careful with that... there is only a fraction of an inch shorter that you can go with the bumpstops before there is a spot on the back of the arm that will contact the frame.

MParks

Im about to do this on my 87 so in addition to cutting, bilsteins or konis would work best right? or can i use something like tokico blues or somethin

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

So far I know it's not hitting the frame at full bottom, but I'm sure it's not far. I won't be cutting the bumpstops or anything, so where it is now is where it will stay. I also don't want to mechanically bottom my Konis on the front, they are expensive and I'd be pissed if I ruined them.

DeanJ

WS6 springs, 3/4 coil cut in front, 1 coil cut in rear. LS6/T56 so front weight is lighter. Dean

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I cut 1.5 coils from my front V6 springs because my engine is 300 lbs lighter than the V8 that was in it and i wanted the same ride height as before.


I'll post pics later but right now it's sitting pretty much level with stock v6 springs in the rear.



I used a 6" cutoff wheel, took like 30 seconds per spring.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

What were you spinning a 6" cutting wheel with?

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

angle grinder


here is the current ride height in the front.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I use a Metabo to cut my springs. Takes about 45 seconds to cut a front spring, and 10 seconds for a rear spring.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

I tried a sawzall first.. what a joke.

vinny83

just wondering, im bout to buy a 1989 camaro rs with the 305, auto. and the the suspension looks wayyy off. the front end looks like there's no motor in it, and the back is about 2" off the tires..any way to just swap out the springs from the front to the back to give the back the raised muscles car look? or how could i fix the front so it sits lower?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Same, it's just no good for hardened steel. Took longer to file the edges clean than to cut with the cutoff wheel

Norm Peterson

First drive or roll the car back a few feet and return. Or drive it around the block. It may have only been set down off jackstands and the need for the front tires to scrub sideways a little is artificially holding that end up.

IIRC, rear springs are pigtailed on one end to locate them on the axle, but the front springs are not. But since front springs are much stiffer than rear springs, even if you could physically get them to interchange it'd be worse off than the way it sits now. Worse ride, poor handling, never mind that the rear shocks are nowhere near up to the task of controlling a spring that's anywhere from two to maybe five times as stiff as the spring it was designed to work with.


Norm

Str8upChevy

To put it simply......NO you can not swap front springs to the back. Different sizes and spring rates. The only way to lower the front down is to swap the springs with a set of "Lowering" springs, or take the stock front springs out and cut them. There's a ton of threads on this site that can guide you through the process.