HPE

Unbalanced Engineering has just come out with a 3rd gen steering shaft rag joint eliminator. Its is an aluminum machined disc that replaces the worn old ragjoints and firm up slop play in the steering wheel.

This is a simple but until now basically no existant product that was in much need. It really firms the steering response imputs and basic high speed feel of the wheel control as well as low speed transition feel. It give and imediate improvement on chassis control and reduces the need to saw the steering wheel steadyiing the chassis when percision driving is required.
They sll for $36 and are a fairly easy installation as long as you own a drill or diegrinder.

Since the aluminum disc is non corrosive ( in comparison to the factory rubber weaved rag joint) I opted to just leave off the protectant steering shaft plastic housing since moisture and oils will not affect this new aluminum disc.

Another must buy for those seeking perfomance handling.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I've been looking at these for a while now. I plan to get one as soon as classes are over. I hate the slop in my steering.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

link to it?

AlkyIROC

I use U-joints from an Astro van in mine.

Fast92RS

iTrader: (2)

I just ordered the kit...

HPE

http://www.unbalancedengineering.com/Camaro/
NOTE:Jason listed 83-92 but did not know 82's were the first year of 3rd gen.I read this error on one of his posts at FRRAX.The part will fit the 1982's also.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Interesting, I saw these before and wondered why no one else made them.
So it's a noticeable difference in "connected to the road" feel when steering at all speeds? I think this will be a next mod for me.
thanks.

Gallileo60

Hey Stephen87, does that just bolt in???? same size shaft and all??? How long have you been using it????? AND, is it a dealer only item???????? Thanks, Tom

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

Do you get a lot of vibration thru the wheel using this? Just wondering how this would work for a mostly street driven car?

AlkyIROC

Custom made. GM uses the same size steering box shaft and upper shaft. The upper shaft is called a 1"DD. The steering box shaft if I remember correctly is 3/4" and I think 30 spline.

I cut the upper and lower yokes off the Astro van shaft. The third gen shaft is longer. I cut the rag joint end off the lower of the third gen shaft and the upper knuckle socket or whatever it's called. Taking the Astro van yokes, they simply slide onto the third gen shaft then I simply welded them back onto the shaft.

I now have a lower steering shaft the same length as the third gen's shaft since it uses the original shaft but has u-joint yokes at both ends.

Don't really have a great picture of it but this isn't too bad.

Gallileo60

Thanks alot.........

RBob

iTrader: (1)

No vibration, but a bunch of hydraulic noise. I got used to it after a while.



For those looking for more info on the astro van setup, there is a long thread by another poster on it. I'll see if I can find it. Also has a picture of the setup in my '92.

RBob.

{edit: found the links . Lots of good info in these therads.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rag-joint.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rag-joint.html

}

Gallileo60

What do you mena Hydraulic noise???? From what???

I am looking for a good way to get rid of the rag joint on my car....Thanks for any answers, Tom

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

IU might do one of these too. Is there any drawbacks anyone has seen by using this instead of a rag joint? Also I have a joint toward the firewall on the steering column that has a semi-perm rubber boot around it with metal straps clamping it in place. Mine has dried and cracked over the years and probably due to excessive heat from the headers. Is this susposed to remain sealed and did it have some lube in it? Should I replace it with the same peice, how do I do it, where do I get it and is therer an alternative replacement part? THX

HPE

Drawbacks?...You mean like putting one of these in and discovering the reason why your old rag joint was wearing so fast is because it was masking the tighness of your worn out steering box...yep, that would be me.


I guess I should not be surprises its that bad because of all the great years I got out of this car handling at the magnitude it does. I have one of the only factory V6's that came with a quick ratio box so it is original from '87.
Oh well, there goes another $362 on a new box. I ordered an AGR 12:1 box with billet caps last night from Summit ($349 + handing). I was looking at the 600 series box instead of these 800 series style but figured this one worked great for years so why change something ansd risk not being happy for whatever reason. Plus I would have had to change the lines to o-ring fittings and would have been out about $600 total instead of what I did spend. It'll work.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

This is the bad part of viewing the boards once a day. I miss out on all the good threads.

I have the prototype unit from Jason on my car. Let me tell you, all the slop in your steering is GONE! You turn the steering wheel 1mm, and the tires move instantly. I get into other vehicles now and I think something is wrong, because they're so sloppy and unresponsive. My car is my daily driver, and there have been no problems, but it does take some getting used to. I wouldnt recommend this for the average thirdgenner, but for someone who uses their car for high-performance driving, its worth it.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The noise is from the fluid as it passes through the steering box. P/S pressures are as high as 1200 psi. When the fluid passes through the control valve and such it makes a spooky noise that emanates from the steering wheel.

This is while turning, highway cruising and country roads are typically quiet.

RBob.

laiky

This type of coupler makes me nervous! There is no way to account for any angularity in the shaft, if your going to use the solid coupler you might as well eliminate the joint nearest the fire wall too. It may work OK but some where that shaft is binding or causing side loads to the steering box and steering column. I think your much better off with the astrovan parts or borgeson. theoretically at least you NEED 2 joints.

HPE

I disagree- Why?- Because after you remove the intermediate shaft and bolt the rag joint eliminator into there, You then colapse the shaft to the shortest distance and reinstall one end, then extend it back out onto the other end.Now with that said, I put the firewall side back on first, then extended the other end back onto the slines of the steering box. 'IF' the intermediate shaft was not in perfect line with the shaft, it would not have slip fit back onto the splines- it would be equivilant to trying to thread a screw in when not lined up at an angle- it would not go if misaligned.
Mine slipped on straight and easy. The steering box is engineered to be in direct line with the intermediate shaft.
New technology has eliminated the need for ragjoints. What was the need for ragjoints? Basically it gives a little bit of play in the steering wheel so the wheel is NOT as sensitive for the average Joe or Jane driving around town. Without it, the car is much more responsive feeling and the littlist steering imput is immediate- you have to be more on your toes because it is less forgiving. It is percise, the front tires go to where you point them Immediately and your turn in of the steering wheel into a corner will now be a split second later to get the same corner entrance response from the car-no delayed imput response. People eating dounuts and yelling at their kids in the back seat may turn therir head around for a second and any tug on the wheel is much more previlant when they are turned around ands distracted and the car can actually start heading out of the lane from a slight misintended pull of the wheel with unattended veiw. This rag joint engineered in is alot along the lines of the engineers setting the roll centers off so a car will push or plow in a panick situation- A sportier driver wants a car loose so equal modificatios are done to suspension parts and setting to alter this also and make the car less forgiving to the average Joe or Jane driving it also- most would spin that kind of a car out and have the *** end come around in a panick situation.

This rag joint eliminator is merely a replacement part to firm up performance enhancement of the steering and take away that soccermom forgiveness.

Back to technology- the new steering boxes are varible ratios. Thus the need for ragjoints do not exist anymore in better performing steering systems. The average Joe ot Jane still has that forgiveness of a 16:1 box turning the wheel off center 2" each way and then the box starts tightening the ratio down and imputs become alot more less forgiving and responsive as the wheel is continued to turn- they will progressively tighen the ratio to about a 13:1. So now, those little over the head lookaways while driving straight on a highway will not have the less forgiving out of the lane accidental imput a person could give it tugging the wheel one way looking back over their shoulder making a lane change of swatting the kids in the back seat with a fly swatter.

laiky

You know i respect your opinion, but i'm going to have to take a good look at the shaft setup before i buy one. I love the idea of removing the mushy rag joint, i'm just not comfortable with this yet.

BTW i thoyght you had a LEE manufacturing steering box in your camaro?

Julie Bergman

I've been racing CMC with the UE Rag joint eliminator in my 4th gen TA - very nice feel over stock! One's going in my 3rd gen street car eventually. Unfortunately I just replaced the rag joint right before Jason released this third gen version. I have an Unbalanced Engineering suspension set-up on my 4th gen for racing, trust me, all Jason's products are well proven on the race track before you guys get them.

MurcoRS

Now you tell me! After doling out $170 for a complete Borgeson shaft replacement!
LOL

HPE

Nope, It has an original "XH" code quick ratio box in it from the factory- It was never changed. This was a special edition V6 I acquired that had the '87 Iroc swaybars on it also- this car is out of a VanNuys Dealership, not just the Van Nuys plant in '87. hence the special dealer paint job it had also- It was a sporty V6 RS showroom car. Other then the paint and semi sporty perks on the suspension, it was pretty much like any other Calif edition RS V6. I really asume it was one of the very first RS V6 cars ever made but I have no proof and really don't care either- it would never be worth anything being only a factory V6 option- thats why I changed basically every part on this car.My New AGR box just arrived while I was typing this- I need to try and get my butt out there and get it in there late tonight.

Gallileo60

Hmmm.Think I will order one of the joint eleiminators...Looks like a good idea, as long as there is no binding...I could see how there would be a problem, if there was......How long have some others been running these ON THE STREET????? Thanks, Tom

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

So its a noise? that makes sence with the box its connected to. But if its not to much would be worth it. I might have to give this a try myself!

HPE.. ive had the AGR box in my car for several years and have been very happy with it. Really tightend up the steering, i did send mine back once to have it setup for a slightly heavier feel. Was to easy to over correct in a corner when i first bought it. It was just a generic setup. If you call them they will set it up how ever you want.

But you probably already know that.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I just went back thru my emails with Jason, and I've had mine on my car since the beginning of the year.

laiky

I'm very interested in your AGR review!

Why didn't you go LEE?

Mikz86TA

iTrader: (4)

OK...Ive read all your reviews and can agree with the reasoning. Since my car is a weekend driver, I would do this. Plus getting the 'feel' in responsiveness is in my best interest. I am an attentive driver when it comes to this car, so I wouldnt have to worry about drifting off and not paying attention. But no one answered my question, so here I go again. On the steering shaft, up closer to the firewall, there is a rubber boot that is attached in a somewhat permanent way with metal straps. It seems to be covering a joint. For some time now, it has been split most of the way around. Now one side is totally open and exposed. What is this for, is there supossed to be some type of lubricant inside and where do I find a replacemet? Steering seems fine, but I also dont want to find out otherwise on the highway. THX

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The replacement is the entire imtermediate shaft. This includes the upper joint, boot, shaft, and rubber coupler (rag joint). They were expensive several years back. I don't believe they are available anymore, but could be wrong.

With the shaft in the condition it is in, may be best to go with the astro-van setup. That will replace both the upper joint and the rag joint.

RBob.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

Wow got to this thread a little late. I think this is great, im ordering one right now. Just a quick couple of questions, does the steering shaft have to come out to do this? Drill for just enlarging bolt holes or what? I can hardly imagine fitting a drill down in my fender well to drill accurate holes in the steering shaft.

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

Ahh.. man.. Dean banned again! I was wondering how your box install went?

laiky

Well there goes any usefull information AGAIN. Guess i'm back to trollin, this site went to hell.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I don't get it, I thought Ede was the one who constantly bans him out of spite, but he isn't a mod anymore.
Did he do something wrong, or is it just a running grudge or something?

SDIF

Why was Dean banned THIS time?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Post #23 & 24 i'd guess
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...on-issues.html

He's got a short fuse eh?

SDIF

It seems his dance partner should have been banned.

We will hear from him again.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

x2

Tidbit

Laiky, Turns out you are right. I must admit that your assumptions were 100% accurate and I did suffer from some bind in the steering column with this aluminum disc replacement. After getting my new AGR box into the car, I was still experiencing a slight resistance at one point on the turning circle of the steering wheel. The same spot regarless of where the tires were pointed, it was when the steering wheel was turned to about the 9 o'clock position. What was happening is the aluminum disc made the intermediate shaft and the stub shaft (attaching to the steering box) meet at a slight misalingnment and made a rotation wobble. This wobble point gave a bind in the turning.I pulled the aluminum disc back out and am not using it.


I eneded up ordering some Flaming River Ujoints (stainless steel)and telescopic shaft just as another member on these boards has done- I copied the purchase parts list.(Aprox $240) The new shaft is incredibly nice.



Now as for the AGR box, I like this also. It is very very simular to the steering box I had already in the car from the factory (ps My factory box was labeled JL but was in fact a quick ratio 12.7:1 box - Not the XM stamping like others claim- This box is original). Thge new box has exactly the same 2 5/8 turns lock to lock that my other box had and is labeld a 12:1 quick ratio box from AGR. ONLY the valving is just very slightly heavier feel- Just a tad- 95% the same as the old box I took out- I am very pleased with it.

As for why I was banned again? My speculation is because I revealled a Moderators person address to a TGO member since this moderator has screwed him out of money and has disappeared. Petty ****'s.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...y-help-me.html

Dean

Hope no one has ordered one of this pending my first reviews- Its the moderators faults for not allowing a followup post on my part to give a final summary on this UE ragjoint eliminator- Blame them if you ordered one since my last banning.

A word to all Moderators- Do you realize I just make you all look like asses when I just come right back onto here? Its a senseless, childish game you are playing. You titles are not Bannorators, You are moderators- So Moderate- get it. Don't like something someone posts- edit it and get off your high horses.

laiky

well i'm glad to be right about something!

I looked into the Borgeson stuff a while back but it was too pricy for me, it is however pretty badass