Suspension / ChassisQuestions about your suspension? Need chassis advice?
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
Picked them up from Wheelworks in burlington saturday. I think they came out very nicely. they were 18x8's now 18x12. Now i get to make them fit.
8.5" of BS. going to be fun
----------
and after the initial sawzall attack
Im going to end up with 9.5" of clearance from the rotor to the new wheel well, and 9.25" to the closest part of the spring. Im going to have to clearance the panhard support a bit too
This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!
Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 01-27-2008 at 07:54 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Sponsored Links
Registered users do not see this ad. Click here to register for free!
Can you post the address/phone number of the guys who did those wheels?
Can they do stock aluminum wheels?
Wheelworks told me he couldn't do my stock crosslaces, but I don't think he understood me right. There's nothing different about widening them, than the way those were widened.
i think he has an issue with the wheel being cast aluminum, vs billet/spun aluminum. Cast aluminum just does not weld well and is more prone to failure than billet/spun aluminum.
Well, at first he was OK with it, and said nothing about the problem of cast vs forged. All of a sudden, he decided that the 4" lip wasn't wide enough to work with , on the center of the rim......Oh well.
Well, at first he was OK with it, and said nothing about the problem of cast vs forged. All of a sudden, he decided that the 4" lip wasn't wide enough to work with , on the center of the rim......Oh well.
That is a sick width! What size rubber goes onto a 18x12?? Are you losing the back seats to do this? I'm curious to know more.
im going to use 335/30/18's. I think i may be able to fit a 345 in there, but it will be really tight and its a hard size to find.
*edit* i just looked the 345's up and bfg has a drag radial in the 345/30/18 size to match my kdw's. and it should fit if i wanted to use it. that just badazz
Rear seats....hmmm.... well the anchor bolt hole for the seat belts on the floor went away, so to re-install belts would require a little work. The mounts for the upper seat "pins?" disappeared too. The "tub" will end right alongside the rear shock mounts, that foam thing that covers them will still remain intact. I did have to grind the mounting flange for the rear seats back part, but that mount is still there. Im going to try my best to retain the back seat. I dont even know if the interior plastics will play nicely with the tubs either.
Its one thing at a time, I need to get a 1/8" plate cut to cap off the frame and form the inner side of the tub, them i can start rebuilding the tops and side of the tub and see where the seats/plastics land.
Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 01-29-2008 at 04:40 PM.
I get the tires mounted tommorow, and should have the passengerside tub finished enough to get pic of the tire mounted in the car, hopefully i dont run out of mig gas right in the middle of it, im getting a bit low...
That is awesome! I would have gone 18x12's on my wheels but with a convertible, it's really hard to do a mini tub because the space required in the trunk for the tub is used by the top.
I had to settle for 18x11's, but it does make a big difference!
Can't wait to see the final results.
still a ways away from being finished on the passenger side, but most of the fab is done, just need to finish a lot of welding, and clearance a couple more small areas.
I did manage to get the tire bolted on this afternoon . Some teaser pics for you enjoyment.
the 335 next to the old 245
the sweet tuckage
excuse the excessive mess and dirty car
clearance from the panhard bar, needs a little work
I have 3/4" from the side of the tire to my tubs. which should be plenty. Steve Spohn says i should expect to see my offset control arms Monday or Tuesday, at that point, its drivable, but only with the passenger side started.
still a ways away from being finished on the passenger side, but most of the fab is done, just need to finish a lot of welding, and clearance a couple more small areas.
I did manage to get the tire bolted on this afternoon . Some teaser pics for you enjoyment.
the 335 next to the old 245
the sweet tuckage
excuse the excessive mess and dirty car
clearance from the panhard bar, needs a little work
I have 3/4" from the side of the tire to my tubs. which should be plenty. Steve Spohn says i should expect to see my offset control arms Monday or Tuesday, at that point, its drivable, but only with the passenger side started.
Sheesh, with the stock tire you could put 2 of them on 1 rim when compared to the new tire...lol
Just curious why didn't you jus buy rims with that width, then you wouldn't have to tub your rear with the right offsets? Don't get me wrong they look sick, good luck with everything.
awsome project but thats alot of work to maintain that back spacing, thats why we love our garages i guess i did the same thing used different back spacing but still had to remove the stock bump stops great look, oh yeah i have to admit if the car launchs hard to the right i did get a small rub 5lbs brass hammer took care of that though.
the wheels? They cost about 500 each, and 250 each to widen, and 350 for each rear tire . ouch.....
I remember one time pulling out the reciept draw, getting maybe a 1/3 in with the calculator and stuffing it back in the draw..... ouch just doesn't seem to cover it, huh?
karl's-92'-z28 - if you want to fit a 12" wide wheel, you're gonna do what he's doing. There is no backspace that will fit under the car. - yes, if he had planned to go this far from the git-go, he could have bought the wheels in a 12" width, but he'd still be doing the "mini tub" job to fit them.
2fast4u92z - it's the pic. The factory suspension class cars are running a wider section width(315/60/15) than his and they clear with the offset arms.
let me restate on my earlier comment i did something similar without the mini tube im running p28540zr17s witch is as much as you can run without sticking out or doing what he is. sorry i wasnt very clear on my last post
also you can get any back spacing you want with american racing wheels not sure about other companies out there it cost alittle more an you can get 11.5 inches of rubber on the ground. but the 12in thing is very cool all im sayin is its very labor intence. when the car is done id love to see a pic from the rear ill post one of mine for comparison. cool project i just opted for a different lazy approach.lol
In that last pic it looks like the lca will hit the tire/rim by alot. Offset or not. Could be the pic?
you are right, the tire will sit inside the stock LCA, i have a custom set from Spohn coming, should be here tomorrow.
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by karl's-92'-z28
Just curious why didn't you jus buy rims with that width, then you wouldn't have to tub your rear with the right offsets? Don't get me wrong they look sick, good luck with everything.
what are you smoking?
The widest i could have bought in this style is 9.5, that all centerline makes. I didnt intend to do this 4 years ago when i bought the wheels. Even if i did buy a 12" rim, it would still have the same backspacing so i would still be tubbing, unless i wanted the tire sticking 3" out past the fender
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprojam
also you can get any back spacing you want with american racing wheels not sure about other companies out there it cost alittle more an you can get 11.5 inches of rubber on the ground. but the 12in thing is very cool all im sayin is its very labor intence. when the car is done id love to see a pic from the rear ill post one of mine for comparison. cool project i just opted for a different lazy approach.lol
my only other option with this wheels was a 9.5" with 5.5 bs, that all they make. the section width of the tire is 13.5"
Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 02-05-2008 at 05:15 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
[quote=Shagwell;3626768]I remember one time pulling out the reciept draw, getting maybe a 1/3 in with the calculator and stuffing it back in the draw..... ouch just doesn't seem to cover it, huh?
I sat down once and started to add things up, started getting a sick feeling and gave up after 20k...
Those wheels/tires look awesome! Definitely cooler that they're nice and tucked in too. So, I'm not fully sure what's involved in a mini-tub, are your interior pieces going to fit in after it's all done?
Those wheels/tires look awesome! Definitely cooler that they're nice and tucked in too. So, I'm not fully sure what's involved in a mini-tub, are you interior pieces going to fit in after it's all done?
i dont know , i would like them to, but i think i may have an issue next to the rear seats, things grew a bit. I "think" the seats will still fit, and if the interior plastics dont, i will have to try to carpet/trim/cut things and make it work. I'l cross that bridge when i get there.
yeah you got me by a couple inches an you wont have to beat the hell out of your stock wheel wells to get them to stop rubbing on hard launchs. ill get those photos up soon wheather sucks here right now. cool money suckin garage time project
Oh now I see.... I thought when you said "offset LCA" you meant only the billet bushings would be offset. Take would only buy you a extra like 1".
Those do scare me I wonder why they can't bend that out of one tube?
As far as money into project cars it is best not to count at all.
Cuz I think I am in the top 10 on this site with over $100,000 So that also make me the bigest loser. Or at least the poorest person now LOL.
wow that is crazy...i also ponder why its not a 1 piece type bend. should look interesting under the car tho
i think a better bet is to fab up a new mounting point for the LCA assembly. Build a extension of the factory subframe and move the LCA mounting point inward on the car and the rearend. Therefore you dont need offset LCAs
Those do scare me I wonder why they can't bend that out of one tube?
i tried that route, and i was told by quite a few places that you cant bend it that tight.
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisbernal91z
What kind of power is this car making and what is it used for?
Love the look though.
its a street car, handling is the primary concern, not just straight line.
the engine dynoed at 501hp and 520lb/ft
as for the 3 pc design, i dont see where the strength issue is. Its a relatively short piece, it faces compression forces, no twisting or anything, the welds are pretty serious, i dont see how they would break any easyer than these aluminum arms that are around or the craptastic stockers. Ive seen stock arms, rusted completely through and not broken. isnt the majority of the axles torque delivered to the torque arm anyway?
I dont know.....if they break i will be the first to know and i will report in.
I need to get more welding gas and i can start on the driver side tub
Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 02-06-2008 at 10:06 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
i think a better bet is to fab up a new mounting point for the LCA assembly. Build a extension of the factory subframe and move the LCA mounting point inward on the car and the rearend. Therefore you dont need offset LCAs
looked into that too. i would have to relocate the shocks as well, they mount right next to the LCA mounts on the axle. Not impossible, just not where i wanted to venture with the coil-over set im running
----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by stage20
what did the set of arms run you?
can't disclose that info, but Steve Spohn made me a great deal
you guys are sure doing a great job of not making me feel all warm and fuzzy about these things I'll just have to keep an eye on them and see how they hold up.
Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 02-06-2008 at 10:05 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
i think they will handle that car just fine, especially street use. Spohn stuff is strong, and even welded like that, it will hold.
at the track they may experience a bit of twisting forces when u launch off the line, but the shocks and torque arm really eat that up.
i'm just thinking it would look "cleaner" with a one piece bend, not like a hacked welded together thing lol but its definately a trick piece and will interest alot of ppl
The twist/traction is handled by the tq arm, the forward motion is all in the control arms. - That said, those don't scary me at your power level, the only thing I would have done differently would have been to add 4 small plates, welded top and bottom where the pipes overlapped. That would have added 4 more welds per joint to aid the shear load. For higher power you could even add a long tapered gusset(triangle) from the bushing ends to the outer edge of the offset pipe. - All in all, they're not a bad design for keeping a poly bushing. - Steve knows his stuff, I'm sure the material is heavy enough and I'm sure he welded them properly.
Really, a bend would tend to have been weaker. Once you bend a material any direction, it takes much less force to continue that bend.
Just for note, I run 17x11's with an 8" bs(4th gen rear). 315/35/17's. - There's several pics of my car floating around this forum. They're just under the upper lip, no rub issues. I rolled the wheel lip slightly and cut the corners off the bumpstops, which only contacted with the suspension at full droop(hanging on the lift).
wow, shagwell and Orr89RocZ, the only slightly positive feedback ive gotten yet. .
I was kinda wondering, since shagwell brought it up. How much does the axle move side to side when you drop it? Im wondering if i will have to remove my tire everytime i need to drop the rear for whatever reason .
as for track use, I would probably pickup a set of bigs and little for that, and run the regular type control arms. the tires im running cost a bit more that i would want beat on at the track. Im sure i could fit a nice sized slick back in there.
For higher power you could even add a long tapered gusset(triangle) from the bushing ends to the outer edge of the offset pipe.
this is where i think some people are missing a little. The poly bushing side is one thing, i could gusset it up on the sides like that. I still have the clearance the floor a bit near the body mount so the offset does not hit the floor. On the axle side, with the rod end, the offset tube is real close to the coil-over setup and the adjuster knob, i will have to get a pic, but this arm is made to fit tightly in a really tight area and the dimensions we not just arbitrarily chosen, i mean, the arm sits INSIDE the wheel on the axle side.
[quote=//<86TA>\\;3630304]wow, shagwell and Orr89RocZ, the only slightly positive feedback ive gotten yet.
i was only asking the price as i might be interested in a set in the future.
i emailed steve and he said he is going to manufacture future sets and sell them for 295.00+shipping.
i guess he gave you a deal, and didnt realize the extra amount of work put into the arm.
as shagwell said, id have them plated or gussetted for higher power, but you are never gonna hurt them, unless weld penetration wasnt good. it would only then fail from fatigue of time and time again of abuse.
you arent going to hit the gas and go around the corner and them break on a maiden voyage.
you arent going to hit the gas and go around the corner and them break on a maiden voyage.
you never know .
As for the extra work involved in the fitment, I told steve i was mini-tubbing the car to make the wheels fit, and anybody with a tapemeasure can figure that you need more than a hammer to make room. And they probably wont work with regular coil springs either.
In the end they are just pieces in a larger puzzle.
I guess its not a big deal, I dont think Steve will hunt me down and take me head for spilling the beans. I paid just under 200 for the set, which is a great price for a 1-off set of arms.
Last edited by //<86TA>\\; 02-07-2008 at 07:35 PM.
cool project its to bad about the hammer though! i hope when you get this all done you you post a pic so we get the big pic. your garage time is the envy of the block!
as far as side to side movement, i dont think it will move that much. the panhard bar controls that. the way the shocks and lca's are bolted on the rear, as well as the dirveshaft and torque arm, its not suppose to move side to side.
i dropped my rear many times and dont recall much movement.
as far as side to side movement, i dont think it will move that much. the panhard bar controls that. the way the shocks and lca's are bolted on the rear, as well as the dirveshaft and torque arm, its not suppose to move side to side.
i dropped my rear many times and dont recall much movement.
The panhard isn't supposed to control side to side. It controls pinion angle. The panhard is what controls side to side,
, on the center of the rim......Oh well. 
. Some teaser pics for you enjoyment.
. ouch..... 
ouch just doesn't seem to cover it, huh?
, i would like them to, but i think i may have an issue next to the rear seats, things grew a bit. I "think" the seats will still fit, and if the interior plastics dont, i will have to try to carpet/trim/cut things and make it work. I'l cross that bridge when i get there. 
.
