calgutie

iTrader: (3)

Alright so I already bought one of Founders Panhard bar and now Im thinking about buying a set of the LCA's they have but other than looking cool what exactly are there purpose and what can I expect form these than my nasty corroded stock ones..LOL...

http://www.foundersperformance.com/p...trol-Arms.html

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

helps prevent wheelhop

Apeiron

They don't twist and flex under load.

calgutie

iTrader: (3)

So you think its worth the $65?

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

Yes they are I just bought a set just tell them how you are going to be driving the car and they will get you the set you need

pearl_iroc

also doesnt hurt that they have new bushings already installed in them

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

In your case, nothing that new or firmer bushings wouldn't do.

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

If you have traction problems, LCARBS work!
They work even better on lowered cars.

I have them and I noticed a difference when I put them in.

91camarosRS

iTrader: (5)

I personally am against poly bushings because of bind. However founders have an extreme joint that is worth it IMO. Also if your rear is out of square, adjustable lca help that. As a lca arcs up and down they also arc side to side poly bushings would cause bind in this instance. This is why the factory used rubber, they can,and will,deflect different ways. Lb9gta is right. For road racing you want the lca to be level to provide proper roll steer. If your car is lowered lcarbs will correct that. If straight line performance is what you want, angled down, they will help on stock or lowered cars

paul_huryk

Good description of what can happen with poly bushings in the LCA...

One thing you need to understand is that GM cheaped out on purpose for all the control arms, TQ arm, and panhard rod on the 3rd gen cars. Not like it would have added a lot of cost to the cars to go basic tubular with rubber bushings when they were built - which would have taken care of 75% of the builds by reusing them. A u shaped piece of stamped metal of the thickness they used twists, flexes and distorts too much for any performance use - probably marginal for normal driving honestly.

So by replacing the RCA, you eliminate twist, flex, and bushing slop in one step - most will notice a difference when they are on - vs. stock.

I put on a set of Global West LCA on my GTA about a month ago - the are rubber/spherical bearing equipped and they definitely tightened up rearend control and also with wheel hop (my car had some prior).

ragz64

I just bought Founders Performance rod end on car adj lca, on car adj phb and lcarb for my drag only '83 'bird.....xcellent parts for the price and like them being fully adjustable....lookin forward to future parts from 'em....thanks Bryan !

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Makes a huge difference.

When I swapped my stockers, with no other changes, I got rid of a ton of squeks and rattles. The car no longer pulled to one side when doing a burnout. Car went straight.

Hooked better as well.



Yes, great investment.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

As has been stated, poly/ poly bushings bind. Unless you strictly cruise or drag race your car, you're going to want rod/poly bushings for a nice handling upgrade without making the ride or noise much worse. If you don't care too much about that, rod/ rod LCA's are the best. Rubber is the least stiff but won't cause bind as that's what the factory units use so it'll ride the best but stiffen up the car the least.

Lower control arm relocation brackets were also mentioned, unless your car has brand new stock height MOOG springs you'll probably want those too as they help traction even more and prevent wheel hop on lowered cars or cars with sagging springs.

Trevmust

stamped steel vs. chromoly powdercoated tubular units. :P

B4CHawk

I'm not quite sure; I run stock LCAs with new "1LE" bushings and have never had wheel hop.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

This whole "bind" myth was started by ONE company that was getting its a$$ handed to it in the marketplace by polyurethane ones and just wanted to sell bushings made out of some other material, and then once that drivel got out into the marketplace, it took on a life of its own.

Funny, we NEVER hear anybody make that claim about leaf springs; but that's EXACTLY what they do. The effect of twisting the spring is for all practical purposes IDENTICAL to what would happen in the event of poly bushings "binding".

Also funny, there has NEVER to my knowledge (always of course subject to adjustment once FACTS are available to change it) been even ONE SINGLE episode of all this death and the matter meeting the anti-matter and annihilating the earth into a micro black hole and all that other stuff that ONE company made up about poly bushings. No cars in ditches, no uncontrollable violent behavior (of the car at least), NONE of it. It's all fantasy and fabrication.

Use the poly bushings; they're perfectly fine.

Don't waste your time messing with the stock LCAs. You (or, at least, I, the classic 6'-1" 140 lb weakling) can bend those things with my bare hands. Put something with some actual strength in there.

LCARBs WORK. They repair the defective geometry these cars were born with, and which just gets worse over time. The defect causes wheel hop. Sagging springs, whether deliberate ("lowering") or just the accumulated effect of bending back and forth a million times, just makes it worse. Once again, ignore the doom-and-gloom "sports car" types on this matter. They WORK.

Homer23

The stronger lower control arms keep the rear end planted better in hard cornering and the new bushings will improve the rear end ride a little bit. So yes, buy them, they're very good and inexpensive.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Unless you only go in a straight line dont bother with poly/poly LCA's. You're better off stock.

They are only worth it if you are racing. They iwll make the ride harsher. Not a lot, but a little. For no rael benefit if you're just cruising around.

For me, between shifts the car will shift its weight and settle a little. The binding of my control arm bushings actually causes crazy axle steer issues where I have to actually adjust my steering when I go into the next gear because the rear axle will re-settle into a different position relative to the car. As one side goes up, it gets pulled towards the front of the car and will try to steer the car independently of the front tires. For example, if you go into a hard right corner, the left rear tire will go up due to body roll, and it will move towards the front of the car, and the axle will actually point towards the corner, but due to the way the rest of the car reacts it actually causes understeer and helps prevent the car from rotating... It does a lot of other stuff in the process, it helps with stability coming out of the corner too, so it's not all bad or anything.

But the point is, the axle needs to be able to move freely, even on the street. Poly bushings on the rear LCA's lead to binding. It's nothing I cant just drive around, I've done it for years, but I'm getting raelly tired of it and it's only the past few months I've really figured out what's been causing it. Im going for a double-rod end LCA, harsher ride, but at least the rear axle can articulate properly. And when the rod ends wear out, you can just go buy new ones from a race shop.

Sofa, I see you disagree, but Im telling you I can go over a bump, and the rear end will not come back to the same place every time. I can push down on one side of the car, and it will come back to a different spot just sitting in place. It's a small difference, but it is enough that I have to correct for it in my steering.

Copperhead

Saved them many millions of $ -- they used the identical flimsy control arm on every G-body, and probably A-bodies and God know what else -- probably even Chevettes.. I have a Buick T-type and they are identical. Also, I used to have a 65 Skylark and those appeared to be the same as well . . . so they designed them in about 1960 and spent the next 40 years using them on half their cars. A piece of sheetmetal wrapped around a stick and flattened with a couple of spacers to keep it bent.

I'll be installing Founders ball-joint bars and LCARB's on the Track Day car this winter as I could care less about harshness there. The Buick I will leave as tubular with bushings to preserve the quiet ride. In fact I'd like to try solid rubber bushings in the tubular arms sometime, they'd probably work great for that car.

t-top89

iTrader: (3)

The stock LCA's are good for 1.5 60ft's or better. I didnt notice a big difference between the tubular and stock as far as ride quality. If you get the LCA's, get the relocation brackets and make adjustments to what your cars likes.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Are you speaking from experince on those 60ft times?

I noticed a huge improvement in ride and ESP the loss of squels and rattles after replacing my stock arms.

Also when launching on the street the cwr tended to stay straighter and not fish tail with the aftermarket arms.

t-top89

iTrader: (3)

Yes. I have been drag racing thirdgens for 17 years.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Cool.
Did you happen to change out the stockers for an aftermarket set and were there any improvements in 60ft times?

t-top89

iTrader: (3)

Yes. But I had to do the relocation brackets to get the correct angle I wanted. I'll see if I can dig up some pics of the difference in the stock vs aftermarket launches.

Edit:
First pic is from 2003. im in the near lane with stock suspension launching at 15psi. 1.55 60ft Slicks

Second pic is from 2013 with aftermarket LCA's and relocation brackets at 12psi. 1.54 60 DR

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

So in your opinion are they worth it?

t-top89

iTrader: (3)

Here is the second pic

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

With the lcarb it's not a fair comparison. I'd be interested to see if there is any change with just the arms.

The lcarbs probably made the biggest difference.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

It certianly looks like a much better launch in the second pic!

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

Off topic, but what track is this pic taken at?