pics of Edelbrock Performer carb to tbi intake swap
06-12-2002, 07:48 PM
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pics of Edelbrock Performer carb to tbi intake swap
H ere's a link to a couple of pics of my Edelbrock Performer carb intake swap using a tbi adapter. SC
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4291867497
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4291867497
06-13-2002, 01:48 AM
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Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
Looks good. I see the intake is yellowing just like mine 
. The only thing I don't like about the performer is how it's offset towards the rear of the intake manifold. With the way TBI throttle blades open, it directs the majority of air at part and all the way up to like 80% PE, towards the back of the intake manifold. The fuel also seems to go that way and you'll notice the front plugs are cleaner than the back. It's a good thing it isn't a single plane but with a truck and no hood clearance issues...go with a taller manifold 
. That filter is gigantic, shouldn't need replacing for a few decades.
. The only thing I don't like about the performer is how it's offset towards the rear of the intake manifold. With the way TBI throttle blades open, it directs the majority of air at part and all the way up to like 80% PE, towards the back of the intake manifold. The fuel also seems to go that way and you'll notice the front plugs are cleaner than the back. It's a good thing it isn't a single plane but with a truck and no hood clearance issues...go with a taller manifold . That filter is gigantic, shouldn't need replacing for a few decades.
06-13-2002, 06:41 AM
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Yeah, that is a big a## filter
I had to put a big 14" x 6" on - all the others looked too dinky small when I popped the hood.
Yeah, I had bead blasted the intake clean, and clear coated with a high temp engine paint. Took about 30 minutes for it to start to yellow - especially around the crossover passages.
When it gets too yellow, I'll pull it back off and get it powder or ceramic coated.
SC
I had to put a big 14" x 6" on - all the others looked too dinky small when I popped the hood.
Yeah, I had bead blasted the intake clean, and clear coated with a high temp engine paint. Took about 30 minutes for it to start to yellow - especially around the crossover passages.
When it gets too yellow, I'll pull it back off and get it powder or ceramic coated.
SC
06-13-2002, 08:59 AM
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That is exactly what my engine looks like. Except for the fact that I have the 350HO under the throttle body. And my air cleaner is half that size. My intake hasnt changed too much. What will clean it when it does? Oh and have you had any vacuum problems with the holley adapter? I did but they are fixed now.
06-13-2002, 02:21 PM
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Car: Turbo Buick
Engine: 3.8 V6
j, that is not an issue unless you've set up your tbi incorrectly.. I.E. using the injectors that come on a holley TBI, not spacing the pod, not eliminating as many iac counts as possible. These are things youd do anyways if you wanted best performance.
oh.. and... single planes are better, equal length runners, no sharp turns, better flow potential, allows you to run a lower CFM throttle body and equal the same flow potential as a larger one on a dual plane... there are more advantages
Pablo
oh.. and... single planes are better, equal length runners, no sharp turns, better flow potential, allows you to run a lower CFM throttle body and equal the same flow potential as a larger one on a dual plane... there are more advantages
Pablo
06-13-2002, 04:41 PM
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I thought that dual plane manifolds are great for low and mid range, and single plane manifolds work best on the top end with high reving engines. I dont see how the throttle body, which is better suited for everyday driving and low RPM, would work better on a manifold designed for top end power.
06-13-2002, 05:50 PM
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I haven't had any vac leak probs with the adapter. I checked it with a straight edge before installing.
I was running extremely rich after intake install. Thought it was an O2 sensor issue, but checked my fuel pressure, and it was WAAAY too high, like 17psi at idle!
I changed the fuel filter at same time as intake install, so my thought is it must have been partially restricted - thus the higher f/p after install.
Pulled off the vAFPR and reset to 9psi at idle/ 15 psi at WOT.
Bumped timing 2 degrees from factory 0 setting.
Runs very good now. No trouble codes or anything.
Got my 1.6 rockers from Scoggin Dickey today. Will install this weekend.
This things my work truck.
It's just too much fun to tinker with it.
SC
I was running extremely rich after intake install. Thought it was an O2 sensor issue, but checked my fuel pressure, and it was WAAAY too high, like 17psi at idle!
I changed the fuel filter at same time as intake install, so my thought is it must have been partially restricted - thus the higher f/p after install.
Pulled off the vAFPR and reset to 9psi at idle/ 15 psi at WOT.
Bumped timing 2 degrees from factory 0 setting.
Runs very good now. No trouble codes or anything.
Got my 1.6 rockers from Scoggin Dickey today. Will install this weekend.
This things my work truck.
It's just too much fun to tinker with it.
SC
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06-13-2002, 06:16 PM
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the reason I had a vacuum leak was because the throttle bores on the adapter are 2" and I am using my stock throttle body. There wasnt much space clamping down on the gasket between the adapter and TB. I hope to get a 454 TB soon. Where did you get the vacuum AFPR? Cause im running sorta rich at idle and sorta lean while cruising. Thanks.
06-13-2002, 06:32 PM
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Got mine from gmpartsdirect.com
For more info on this subject go to this thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=42468
For more info on this subject go to this thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=42468
06-13-2002, 07:16 PM
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Car: Turbo Buick
Engine: 3.8 V6
the throttle body is not suited to anything it simply meters air and fuel
This has been discussed about a million times i wish people would try reading around first.
A shorter runner does tend to have the effect of increasing high rpm power at the expense of low end torque. HOWEVER, much of the reputation single plane manifolds get for being weaker low end stems from the multitude of tests using carburetion where vacuum signal is directly responsible for the introduction of fuel through mechanical means. Since an engine "sees" the entire plenum of a single plane manifold it then gives the carburetor less signal to work with since the engines needs are dampened by the larger plenum. This is why there is an old rule of thumb that a given engine running x carburetor on x dual plane manifold can run a smaller carburetor on a single plane manifold and maintain if not better performance while minimizing the negative effects i mentioned above. Whats this mean for tbi? the throttle body does not introduce fuel via a mechanical relationship with airflow like the carburetor. In fact.. it doesnt care if air is passing through at all. All the ecm wants to know is what the pressure is inside the manifold relative to atmospheric. The result is that a tbi does not suffer the same kind of losses on the low vacuum signal motor as a carburetor does. No boost venturi, nothing. It injects fuel regardless
On my own motor I have tested both carburetion and TBI on the same edelbrock torker II single plane and there is a massive difference in low end torque and throttle response.
I think its also important to remember that while this sub 3000 rpm power feels nice just driving around, it is virtually meaninless during the quarter mile as you may only see that range once if that. I think there is an over emphasis on this low end torque thing.. I dont pull boats with my f body im just looking for lower ets as many of us are. Its a basic drag racing principle to increase the power where your engine spends the most time... in just about everyones case thats going to be from 3000 rpm and up
btw carburetors introduce fuel above the throttle blades just like tbi, and most mechanical secondary carburetors for instance dont even begin to open the secondary throttle blades till about 70% throttle on average. They seem to do allright when properly setup. this is in response to the post above discussing the blades directing air.. or was it fuel.. or both.. to the rear cyls
This has been discussed about a million times i wish people would try reading around first.
A shorter runner does tend to have the effect of increasing high rpm power at the expense of low end torque. HOWEVER, much of the reputation single plane manifolds get for being weaker low end stems from the multitude of tests using carburetion where vacuum signal is directly responsible for the introduction of fuel through mechanical means. Since an engine "sees" the entire plenum of a single plane manifold it then gives the carburetor less signal to work with since the engines needs are dampened by the larger plenum. This is why there is an old rule of thumb that a given engine running x carburetor on x dual plane manifold can run a smaller carburetor on a single plane manifold and maintain if not better performance while minimizing the negative effects i mentioned above. Whats this mean for tbi? the throttle body does not introduce fuel via a mechanical relationship with airflow like the carburetor. In fact.. it doesnt care if air is passing through at all. All the ecm wants to know is what the pressure is inside the manifold relative to atmospheric. The result is that a tbi does not suffer the same kind of losses on the low vacuum signal motor as a carburetor does. No boost venturi, nothing. It injects fuel regardless
On my own motor I have tested both carburetion and TBI on the same edelbrock torker II single plane and there is a massive difference in low end torque and throttle response.
I think its also important to remember that while this sub 3000 rpm power feels nice just driving around, it is virtually meaninless during the quarter mile as you may only see that range once if that. I think there is an over emphasis on this low end torque thing.. I dont pull boats with my f body im just looking for lower ets as many of us are. Its a basic drag racing principle to increase the power where your engine spends the most time... in just about everyones case thats going to be from 3000 rpm and up
btw carburetors introduce fuel above the throttle blades just like tbi, and most mechanical secondary carburetors for instance dont even begin to open the secondary throttle blades till about 70% throttle on average. They seem to do allright when properly setup. this is in response to the post above discussing the blades directing air.. or was it fuel.. or both.. to the rear cyls
06-13-2002, 07:55 PM
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Geez, lighten up Pablo.
That was a terrific response as to the differences in single plane vs. dual plane intakes and carb vs. efi, but back off the attitude - especially to junior members.
I do pull a boat, and a car hauler, and I am interested in low end power. I'm sure other members are also.
If you're so tired of "correcting" us fellow board members, do me a favor and don't.
SC
That was a terrific response as to the differences in single plane vs. dual plane intakes and carb vs. efi, but back off the attitude - especially to junior members.
I do pull a boat, and a car hauler, and I am interested in low end power. I'm sure other members are also.
If you're so tired of "correcting" us fellow board members, do me a favor and don't.
SC
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