IROCtheRoad

Can anybody tell me how to run an external ERG with Vortecs? Any pictures will help too. Thanks

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

vortec-headed trucks had egr. here's a link to a complete setup from one for sale on ebay. i wouldn't recommend you buy it, the exhaust manifolds and intake manifolds would be pretty restrictive, but it let's you see how it's done.

you have to get your exhaust gas for the egr from your exhaust manifolds or headers. one way to do so is to use the a.i.r. tube from one of your headers. you leave the other one functioning as designed.

none of the aftermarket vortec intakes have an egr provision, so you have to get an external egr. some tpi vettes and v6 third gen camaros/firebirds had them.

finally you have to get the exhaust gasses from the egr valve into the intake manifold. i'm not sure how to accomplish that. i don't know if just dumping the egr valve output into the plenum will work.

technically, this setup wouldn't be legal, as the intake wouldn't have a c.a.r.b. certificate. i've decided that my definition of legal is having all required smog equipment on the car and functioning properly and being able to pass the sniffer test.

others may have different definitions.

Chuck!

swerve-driver has a real nice picture of how he runs it. I know he's posted it a few times, if you search around you should probably find it. Basically you plumb the exhaust from the air passage out of the header/manifold and run it to the intake manifold.

swerve-driver

Here's one way to do it...
S-D

IROCtheRoad

Thanks for the help!

swerve-driver

I should also have mentioned that the ss braided hose is attached directly onto the SLP headers AIR pipe. I pump AIR into one header (passenger side) and take exhaust for EGR out of the other (drivers side).

Dave Y

if you wanted to get the AIR on that side working as well, you would need a T fitting right on the header AIR fitting, then the egr line off one and the AIR check valve on the other, this will work(and does on LT1's) because the EGR and AIR systems dont use the header/manifold pipes at the same time

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

hey swerve,

that install looks awesome. what intake is that?

how did you plumb the egr output into the intake? is that an egr fitting you go to, or did you use or make something else?

what egr valve did you use?

this subject comes up a lot. you ought to write a tech article with pics.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

david,

i don't understand, why don't the egr and air systems use the pipes at the same time? can you help me with this?

also, looked on your page. great work on thse floorboards.

9c1Caprice

I second that. Great idea for a tech article

IROCtheRoad

I agreem; a tech article on this would be really helpful.

swerve-driver

All-
I will work on the tech article. Does anyone know who I need to talk to abou getting it posted?

Dave Y-
I had considered the "T" idea at first, but was concerned that I would wind up pumping A.I.R. air into the EGR. It sounds like that is not a likely scenario? Thanks for the info. Maybe a little mod is in order prior to tech aritcle write up...

Thanks,
S-D

swerve-driver

I tried to think it through when I was putting the EGR setup together. I believe that the AIR pump is really only used during the initial warmup of the engine and cat. (Air is pumped into the cat right after startup to get it up to temp, then the AIR shuts down). Then later on, when cruising at mid-throttle at steady-state conditions, the EGR will open up to help lower combustion temps.

Like I said, that is my impression of what is going on, which should make it OK to "T" the header as Dave mentioned. But I was not sure, so that is why I just drew EGR off that side.
I think it is defintely worth a try. I was relatively new to the whole idea back then so tried to stay on the safe side.


Dave can you let us know if my 1st paragraph ramblings have any bit of accuracy to them?

S-D

swerve-driver

Intake is a GM Performance Part: #12496821

All parts for the piping (with the exception of the stainless braided hose (McMaster-Carr catalog)) came from the local ACE Hardware- nothing fancy. Just finding what would work. I was kind of bummed that I had to use that klunky galvanized pipe union fitting, but couldn't find any alternative.

I don't know if you've checked out the Salle Chevrolet website. They provide some info about a stock GM setup for piping exhaust gases from a specifc gm exhaust manifold up to the EGR in-port on the GM TBI-Vortec manifold.
See the "Technical Note" at the bottom of the following page link.

Link==>http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Chev...ortec_TBI.html

I will work on the tech article- might take a while but I'll get it done. Just wanted to answer your specific questions.
S-D

tanager11

great post guys!

swerve-driver

I e-mailed the admin for information concerning posting a tech article but never got a reply. I will likely just create a specific info-post as I did with my air intake setup. Still picking up on a few part numbers and photos for completion.
S-D

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

swerve, that is such a cool install. congrats.

alas, it doesn't solve my problem. i want to run an edelbrock performer rpm air gap intake. it doesn't have an egr fitting, so the challenge is still how to get the egr gasses into the plenum.

swerve-driver

Hmm. I see that Edlebrock intake has no provisions for EGR what-so-ever. Getting exhaust gas into the intake is one thing, finding a place to mount and use an EGR valve is another thing. A very tough thing.
Shoot man, if you have to keep the EGR, I don't know that any performance increase to be had by using the Edlebrock intake over the GMPP intake would be worth it after you factor in all the customizing that would need to be done to the EB Air-Gap, if it can be done.
My opinion is rooted in general feasibility of the proposal, but is also tainted by the fact that early on in my engine build I came across a tech at Edlebrock that was a real live bung-hole. Haven't given a whole lot of thought to their products since. I know they have some good stuff, but I find same or better results with GM Perf. Parts and other manufacturers.
Best-
S-D

Edit: Now that I think on it a little more, would a GMPP TBI-Vortec intake combined with a lifter valley oil baffle get you most of the way to where you want to be?

swerve-driver

Like this...
I don;t know if this will help, just trying to think of alternatives-

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

i ended up going with a set of world products s/r torquer 305s, which are egr-compatible, and i'm going to use a weiand 7525 intake, which has an egr provision, so the discussion is somewhat moot as far as my car is concerned.

but, i think it's still worth exploring. you could get your egr gasses from one of the air tubes and use an external egr from a c4 vette or a v6 fbody. the only thing left is to plumb the output of the egr valve into the intake. i've looked at a few intakes and it doesn't look like there's anyhting fancy going on there. i'm also pretty sure i've seen spacers that went under the carb and just dumped the egr output into the plenum. i'm wondering if you couldn't just drill a hole in the side of the intake and plumb it in.

obviously, this wouldn't be technically legal, but i've decided that my version of legal is all smog equipment installed and working and being able to pass emissions in daily-driving trim.

IROCtheRoad

sounds good
Didnt know people were still looking at this topic... cool

LastViceRS

I'm really glad to see this... I've been weighing my options for SOMEDAY when I can drop in a crate motor. Seeing a clean-looking EGR install keeps the Vortecs on my mind as a possibility. Looking forward to the tech article, Swerve.
Thanks, guys.

seek007

yeah im in the same boat, this is the exact post i was looking for on the matter, i've been looking at the gm crate 350HO motor, then i gotta get the vortec intake base, but it only has an egr provision for crabs, no tpi, and now i can make a egr setup seems like a whole lot of work, i would have to make sure the hooker headers have the air fitting, and i dont want to sound stupid but what does the egr actually do in terms of performance and reliability, and in terms of exhaust emissions?

in contrast i simply want to know if the whole setup is fessible and will work with no problems, i really like that engine and for around 3-3.5grand thats a good price for it's quality, i don't know what other motors to look into i want a good warranty, i suppose i have to get the low down on the jasper engines?

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

the issue of getting the exhaust gasses from the external egr valve into the intake isn't resolved if you want to run an intake that doesn't have an egr provision. swerve is using the only tbi intake for vortec heads. if you want to run any other, you're out of luck. i wish someone had an answer.

seek007

i was refering to the gm 350HO motor that comes with vortec heads, and also requires the sdpc made vortec intake base, for tpi applications (as far as i know) and its listed you can order it with an egr valve on the intake manifold, actually it says this exactly:

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...1460&pid=13740

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...1460&pid=13775

on that second link it's actually saying (with the kit)

"The SDPC TPI Vortec Baseplate will accept the factory EGR system from most Corvette applications. All other applications will require EGR Modifications. EGR kit # SD3816 has all of the necessary components required for most applications that are using CARB approved headers on F-Body cars. The TPI Vortec Baseplate has not been approved for use on pollution controlled motor vehicles in any state of the USA. Please check with local laws for EGR requirements."


obviously no one makes a egr kit for us, that is why we have this wonderful thread

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

yes, i am talking about taking air from the headers. while not technically legal, my definition of legal is all emissions equipment hooked up and functional and able to pass emissions.

in your case, swerve's solution will work. i want to run an rpm air gap with my tbi, so i still have to solve the issue of how to get the exhaust gasses coming from the air tube on the headers to the external egr valve plumbed into the intake.

jconrad

Do you think the EGR kit they are selling might work for the TBI intake?

If the ZZ4 cam has enough overlap to put exhaust gases into the intake side, then why not just use that cam and not worry about EGR? Does it have too much lift or something?