What are your guys opinions of Hp output of these two heads. Are the AFR 190's comparable or alot better in your opinion? I know the fastburns are cheaper, but will the AFR's make more Hp out of the box?? Thanks! P.S. Lets assume that the heads are on a ZZ430 clone. Both milled to the same cc. [This message has been edited by BigBlockJason (edited March 20, 2001).]

from what ive seen about the flow numbers and the detail going into the afr's(100% cnc ported intake and 70-100% exhaust) and the pure craftsmanship... they seem to be far superior to all other heads out there the price is a bit high yes, but, if you take the cost of the porting off the total cost of the heads they are only about 500$!!!because where i have a set of heads fully balls to the wall ported it would run 700$ take that from 1200 and you get 500$ thats a hell of a deal on a set of aluminum heads!!
the brodix track1's will out flow them by far ..but, you'd have to pay the 1200-1500 for the heads, then have the 700$ of extra porting costs done!! but, by far the brodix would out flow them if, you have the money(i dont!!)

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89 firebird formula

356 10.5:1compression
comp cams xe262 cam
performer rpm intake
#1405 edlebrock 600
sportsman 2 heads 64cc 2.02/1.60 valves 200cc intake runner
msd 6al
h.e.i. proform 50,000 volt vac. advance ditributor
700r-4 with 3.08 first gear and 3.23 posi 7 5/8 rear end.
b trans shift kit(will kill shifts...suck dong!!)
shorty heddman hedders with custom 3" pipe y-pipe back(no damn cat!) with 40 series flowmaster!


future mods: 406 roller REALLY REALLY REALLY RADICAL!!!!!

AFRs are better out of the box than a Fast burn. (As far as flow goes) Those things flow awesome numbers, especially the AFR220s.

I think that I saw somewhere that the AFRs would outflow the BT1s. Cant remember where, might have been in GMHTP.

I have some fast burns that Im going to use with my Ram Jet motor and LT4 Hot Cam. These heads dont have real impressive flow numbers, but they seem to work real well with that LT4 Hot Cam. (Around 430 HP)

These heads look real good out of the box. I am impressed with the quality of them.

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L98, 3.27 9-bolt, Hooker shorty headers, custom 2.5inch Y-pipe, no cat, 3inch 2chamber flowmaster, JET AFPR, Ported MAF, Best ET: 13.86 @100mph. 1.99 60'
17 inch ROH "ZS" wheels. 17x8.5(front) and 17x9.5 (rear). Firestone Firehawk SZ50s. 245/45/zr17s and 275/40/zr17s. T56

On the way... Radar Blue 89 Formula, T56, Ram Jet 430, Ram Air, 17inch ROHs.

The main problem with the T1s and 220s is you will have difficulty finding an intake that will match the ports well but not be anything but a race intake. I have a set of T1s and while they are good, I am not sure they are still the best. I am not sure I believe it, but according to a couple of sources, the new 23degree TFS heads make more hp than T1s.

http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum13/HTML/003337.html

You also run into the issue of the installed spring. The T1s come with a roller spring with 200lbs seat. To use that spring on a hyd cam, you will need to remove the innerspring. I would also mention that the 2.08 intake valve on the T1s (and 220s) does shroud the valve pretty bad and should be really used on 400 size bores as opposed to 350 sized.

I don't think a set of fast burns will make the same hp as a set of AFRs. I have seen many a motor make 450+ hp with afr 190s but have not seen many that make more than 430 with fastburns. Ofcourse, there have been quite a few more dynos with 190s than FBs

[This message has been edited by jcb999 (edited March 20, 2001).]

Well, actually, Sallee Chevrolet has a ZZ450 out that puts out 450 Hp with the Fast Burn Heads. I guess what Im really wondering , is that if a guy had identicle motors, how much Hp increase would you guess you'd see going with the AFR's over the fastburns? Maybe 10 to 15 Hp ??? I guess at that point, the AFR's may not be worth the extra cash.

I think the ZZ450 is not based on a 350 motor. According to popup window on their website, I think it is a standard bore 383 (or a 377 stroker). I am not sure that it makes 450 hp.


ZZ450 377/383 450 HP Stroker
For those people that want a "377/383 Stroker", our Race Shop team has come up ZZ450 to fill that need. For the ZZ450, our Race Shop lengthened the stroke from 3.48" to 3.750" and kept the same bore of .400" (3.750" Stoke x .400" Bore = 377 Cubic Inches). The results of all their efforts were not only to come up with a stroker engine, but also an improved version of the much acclaimed ZZ430. Therefore they named it the ZZ450. They didn't stop there, they decided to offer as an option, to bore the block to 0.030" over which will make this ZZ450 a 383 stroker.
Click Here.
Webmaster, 12-22-2000.

I think you should also consider the possiblity of what will you be wanting to do to it in the future. According to GM, the FBs are really not designed for porting. The AFRs are. I think it should also come down to which one will give you the compression you want without a lot of milling. The chambers on the AFRs can only be changed by about 6 ccs with regular milling (I think). To get more than about 8 ccs out of them, you have to angle mill and that is 250 bucks.


[This message has been edited by jcb999 (edited March 20, 2001).]

That is true, but heres the thing. I want to spend no more than 4500 on a motor. That leaves me with the ZZ430 Clone from Scoggin Dickey for $4495. I plan to use a Miniram with Hooker 1 3/4 Super Comps. The only other crate motor i can find that doesnt use the fastburns, but still makes good power, is the American Speed crates. http://www.amerspeed.com/engine_prices.htm . Some of these motors use the AFR heads,(which I do pefer). Dont really care for the Edlebrocks. But I am leary about buying from this place for some reason. What engine would you guys buy if it were you for $4500? I would reallllly like a 400, but doesnt seem possible. I want a motor fully assembled and ready to drop in minus intake.

I know it doesn't quite fit your bill, but I'm building a ZZ430 clone for about $4000 with all GM parts. I have a .030 overbore, and gapless rings, so I'm estimating about 440-450 HP from it. It would be much cheaper to build your own, if you have the know-how.

I just picked up my fast-burn heads and LT4 HOT cam last week, and I have to say that they do look impressive! I don't have any experience with AFR's but I have heard of many guys using them.

What is the price on a set of the AFR's? I paid $563 a piece for my fast-burns, fully assembled with the right springs for the HOT cam.

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Working on:
'84 Z28 LG4 305 with 200,000 original miles!
Added dual elec fans.
145 MPH IROC Speedo
Building 430 HP 350 (ZZ430)
using primarily GMPP parts.
Short block sitting on a stand.

Starting to look like the Kicker poster child!

ASE Certified Master Tech

I don't know if your planning on buying the miniram new or used . Just thought I'd mention TPIS does make a miniram for Vortec/Fastburn heads now , it's called a miniram III
The Fastburn would be a great head to use if it allowed you to stay in your budget along with a LT4 hot cam .


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Derek 90 IROC 5.7
Mods: All the usual bolt ons , 2500 stall , 373's , SS hood , lotta reduced weight.
Best Et: 13.16@101


[This message has been edited by 90 Z28SS (edited March 21, 2001).]

Check out engine factory at http://www.enginefactory.com/

and
http://www.allchevyengines.com/

-Rich

Thanks for the those sites ! Any one have any other sites like those?