chevyboy07 91

Ok guys i have NEVER got an oil pan to completly seal and not

f!@#ing drip in some sort of quantity. It is MOTHER F!@#$ING annoying as all h e l l and i am sick of it, really.

I have good luck with water pumps. Never had a mishap. But oilpans..FORGET IT. I am fed up.

I use Permatex 598B I believe...its the black stuff. A looooooong time "Car guy" swears on the black, but a diesle mechanic friend of mine swears on the grey.

Well, i put my motor together again and back in the car. I am a complete a-hole and the cam timing was waaaaaay off. So i had to drop the pan an pull the cover. I knew RIGHT AWAY i was going to have a dripping situation when it was back together. Well, i tried to re-seal it good but i have a freaking leak.

what RTV/tricks/methods do you use on the pans and WHY CANT I DO IT???????????????? Felpro instructions say "dont use adhesive chemicals" and EVERY engine shop i talk to laughed at those directions.

I clean all surfaces very well, allow dry time. dont use to much or too little.........i dont get it man.

I really do NOT wanna have to drop the pan again and go through all this crap........honestly i am so frustrated, this car has been nothing but headaches from day 1.

ede

i use ultracopper and from time to time ultragray but usually just stick with the copper. if it were me i'd buy a one piece gasket and use nothing on the oil pan.

RB83L69

I straighten the tin parts out so that the bolt holes aren't already punched in toward the surface from prior overtightening. In fact i usually turn the bolt hole "inside out" compared to the rest of the surface; in other words, so that the space between the bolt holes touches before the bolt holes will.

Makes an astounding difference, especially with valve covers or anything else with a thick gasket.

I don't find that the dye color in the stuff has much to do with its sealing ability. I use the black or grey usually just because they're less conspicuous; although I'll use the copper on an orange motor.

bluroc

My luck is usually the same, a leak somewhere reguardless of how you do things. Last summer I had to drop my pan and the one thing I did then that I hadn't ever done in the past is to use a torque wrench on every bolt and torque everything to factory specs in my Chilton's manual. I didn't use any sealer on the gaskets and even used cork ones on the pan. So far, not a drop!! I did think a time or two that the oil pan bolts were going to snap before my torque wrench clicked, but they didn't. Sometimes I think we're just afraid of overtightening when we're not tightening enough. The new one piece gaskets are great too!! A friend of mine just had the oil pan gasket blow out of his 1/8 mile '69 Camaro and he replace it with a one piece. No leaks so far!!

SSC

Ive used black for timing covers with no problems but an oil pan I'd rather use a gasket same for valve covers. Gets me highly ticked when I pull valve covers off to find silicone alone under them.

If you really want to use it on an oil pan instead of a gasket make sure its perfectly clean and DONT LEAVE ANY TRACES OF SOLEVENT! Solevent will prevent the silicone from setting causing huge leaks even says so on the package.

Vader

There are several conventions that apply to adequate sealing:

1. Surfaces must be clean;
2. Alignment and contour MUST be correct (as RB alluded);
3. The mating surfaces must be CLEAN;
4. Gaskets must be a firm and thin as possible;
5. Everything MUST be clean;
6. Sealants should only be used on irregular or damaged surfaces;
7. All surfaces MUST BE CLEAN:
8. Fastener torque should not be exceeded;
9. CLEAN! CLEAN!'
10. Aftermarket parts are not as likely to seal correctly;
11. CLEAN IT!;
12. Pay particular attention to the ends of the gaskets if they overlap or adjoin other seals (as in an oil pan);
13. Did I mention that everything should be surgically CLEAN?

The factory used a fiber gasket and no sealants, and got an adequate seal. It's not that difficult, but can take some time and effort to do correctly.

f-crazy

iTrader: (-1)

i had an oil pan/RMS leak on my motor when i first got it back together...really erked me for a long time..

i wen t over kill this time...i bought a new 1 piece oil pan gasket from gm and some RTV....i put some all the way around the gasket and stuck it to the webbing on the block..i let it tacky and put another bead on the bottom of it then put on the oil pan..so its got a bead of RTV then the gasket then another bead of RTV then the oil pan...that MF doesnt have a chance in holy hell of leakiing....

blacksheep-1

One of the problems that I've seen is that guys pry the timing cover off of the pan, then they cut out the back of the cover so it can go straight on. A lot of times the front of the oil pan will be distorted. If you must remove the cover, you must remove about the first 1/2 of the pan bolts, then loosen the rest. If you're having a good day, you won't tear the pan gasket and can just bolt it back up. I just make sure the oil pan and covers are straight and clean, I use the old style permatex on the end (rubber) gaskets, especially the corners and bolt it up, never really had a problem.

Red Devil

Vader, you forget one... Clean it GOOD!

But I like the rubber one piece myself. Used black, grey, and copper, never really had a problem with any of them. But I'm a bit **** about that clean part too.

cormyr

i would wager your oil pan has some distortion to it. also, i would never use black rtv on the oil pan. i've experienced bad things with small traces of it getting into the oil. id recommend using a for-real gasket

chevyboy07 91

i should clairfy...i AM running a Fel-Pro (blue rubber type) gasket along with the RTV.

All the builders i know said to use RTV....REGARDLESS of Fel-Pro's instructions saying not to.

And i am very particular about having clean mating surfaces...

really just bad luck

i MIGHT try it one more time...new gasket, etc etc

we'll see.

laiky

fel-pro 1 piece gasket is the only way to go IMHO. when you need good rtv get the "right stuff" thats the name, sick shiit. best i have ever used, in fact its so strong i couldnt get my intake or oil pan of with out a BIG prybar.

88Camaro350

When I pull my motor to install a 2 piece timing chain cover and a new set of heads I plan on getting the APR oil pan studs and using a 1 piece rubber felpro gasket. Flip the engine upside down on the stand, install studs, put gasket on, and torque to spec. I figure it would work well.

86IROCTHD

u might not belive me but..... go to your local toyota dealership....go to parts and get a tube of there black F.I.P.G. i use this stuff every day..... and this stuff is great i put it on some valve covers and just set them on the heads and let it set... no bolts on the valve covers nuthing.. and i had 2 pry them off with a pry bar......... i will use this stuff on my new motor and it shouldnt ever leak.....

AM Racer

I never use RTV around oil regardless.
"Right Stuff" in the aerosol can ( like black cheese whiz) hangs on tight.
As mentioned above though, I'd look for a problem in the pan too.

mystikkal_69

iTrader: (2)

another vote for the right stuff. i bent a valve cover or two just trying the valve cover back off. that was like after 50,000 miles too.

:hail: Right Stuff

MrDude_1

id bet you $5 that your constant prob isnt related to sealent at all..... i think you're barking up the wrong tree...





frankly, i think you probly overtightened it in the past, and the bolt holes are now warped..
you can flatten them with a ball peen hammer, or you can get a new pan.
then, dont overtighten them... a TQ wrench might be overkill, but just snug them down smooth. (its hard to decribe a amount by feel)

when a cork (or rubber/cork) gasket is compressed too far, it loses its sealing ability.
the oil pan does NOT have to be very tight at all to seal.

laiky

Mrdude is right, it is most important to tighten something like an oil pan a little at a time. put all the bolts in loosely then snug them one at a time, going back and forth in a criscross pattern until they are all tight. under no circunstances should you tighten one bolt all the way and then the next. you must go over them in several passes sort of like torqueing a head or intake.

TheMysticWizard

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I'll ask my question here... Sorry if I in any way hi-jack the thread... but it seems everyone is talking about the same thing here.

I Have a used pan, all the bolt holes look flat... it came with a sort of "spreader" that goes along the pan rails... basically a 3/16 thick piece of metal with the holes exactly like the pan, so this should help me out as far as everything being torqued evenly... the pan looks to be in good condition too, nothing noticeably bent or anything.

I have the Fel-Pro one piece seal, which as was stated before, says not to use any RTV or anything... but I feel kinda uncomfortable with that... So should I use any RTV, and if so where?

I was planning on putting it in the back corners around where the block meets the rear main seal housing, and along both sides on the timing chain cover... does that sound reasonable? Or do I need more elsewhere?

I really don't want this thing to leak, It'd be a shame to get this new engine together and have a oil pan leak.

AM Racer

Uncomfortable or not, the mfr. made the gasket specifically for no sealants to be used.
They have nothing to gain by giving bum info.
RTV itself is probably one of the most improperly used substances on the market. It's a gasket substitute and not a gasket sealant and a poor one at that.

Hellraiser

I would also highly reccomend "the right stuff" as a gasket substitute.... if your gonna use a cork gasket, and insist on using a sealant permatex's high tack is more than sufficient.

bowtiedude

I never torque any tin work valve covers ,timing, covers , valve covers .I use a 1/4 " ratchet and snug them. are you sure you are using the correct end seal on cover to oilpan seal? Also use RTV sparingly I do not use any on pan high tack gasket to pan use a very small amount of RTV on corners make sure pan is not distorted [ a little hammer and dolly work ]that should be end of leak problem and it doesn't take much longer to do it right the first time. And it blows goats doing it twice

Floor guy

It is like I a was reading my own words! Ultracopper is the only rtv that has not failed me yet. I do not use anything on the 1 pc oil pan gaskets though.