bowtieguy01

I just left dallas racing.com and alot of people are really ford fans. but everybody says that the modulay is better, simply because its a ford, and chevy's have some many problems. Is the modular really better? I'm going to take this post and put it on that site when its through.

bowtieguy01

bowtieguy01

Car Craft put out top 10 v8's ever made and the first 4 were fords, and the first was the modular motor. Number 7 was the LS1. Could the whole reason behind this be the technology that was put into this motor? Whats so special about it that the LS1 dosent have?

cort351w

Don't let my name fool you on this one, I'm a GM guy through and through. I don't know if this even makes sense, but they may have ranked the modulars at the top because of the potential that they have.

1. I HAVE HEARD (read: no first hand experience) that it is not that difficult to get 600hp out of the the 4.6L.

2. There are a lot of options with modular engines. The new aston martin vanquish's V12 is basically two modular ford tarus V6s put together. Again, I don't know if ford has anything like this planned.

So, this was probably not correct, but could potential/adaptability have figured into the decision?

One reason I thought this was that stock for stock, very few engines have anything on the LS1/LS6, especially anything from dearborne.

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91 formula WS6 305 tpi, T-5, 20,xxx actual miles, Cyclone headers, true dual exhaust, Moroso Blue Max wires

LottaBallsCamaro

The SOHC version sucks a donkeys **** . Hotrod has been trying to make affordable power out of it and havnt been succesful without a blower for the most part. OHC's were meant for more then 2 valves.

I have heard the DOHC versions are much better but The LS6 would have to top it. Does the modular have 6main bolts? Dry sump oil system? 405 hp in street trim? With a warranty? for $4,000 you can make a Z28 run 11's. Most of that money is spent replacing the weak *** rearend. Pocket port the heads, install a good cam, Cold air induction, Headers, catback, 4.11 gears with drag tires
drag shocks and you'll be running 11's. The major restriction on the ZLS1/LS6 is the intake manifold. I'm not sure on all those Q's above but fairly certain.

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You have walked onto the biggest baddest dog porch and you will be dealt with accordingly.

I'd rather be historically accurate than politically correct!

Vader

If you find a Ford Romeo (modular) engine that has gone 200,000 miles without losing oil, I'll suck your Oscar Meyer...

What a POS. I'll take a well designed integrally cast cylinder case any day over a "tinker-toy" engine case.

Did I get my 2¢ worth yet?

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Later,
Vader
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If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
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silverstreakII

all i gott say is tht while gm has gone with the formula that works for 60 years, i.e. pushrod small block, ford has spent theyre career building every type of engine they can think of and their true quest is emmission friendly power, hence the 5.8 to 5.4 to 4.9(5.0) to 4.6 with the imminent upcoming 3.9 to debut in the new tbird. while gm can pull 405 horse and still give 20+mpg, ford has trouble with those numbers. why? they keep experimenting, but never really digging into one design. granted, the next vette engine is said to be a 7 liter DOHC, they havent abandoned the pushrod quite yet. gm stuck with one design that worked, and has thus created the greatest, cheapest ftermaret following available, and believe me, you want 600 horse out of a sbc? LPE now makes a 427 ci small block, LS6 based, 550 horsepower, all motor, and a tt 346 LS6 at 650 horse. I wonder how a tt 427 would work out...
oh and by the wayy, the car craft listing was in abc order if you didn't bother to check it out....the first was the bmw 5.0, the last was i believe the tundra v8, from toyota. ford is alphabetically before GM, so...

bowtieguy01

The theory about it having alot potential,
THis is probably true, But if that were the case then why is it that the new generation cobra, the FR500, going to be a 5L. it makes 425HP. If the moduar has so much potential then why is the motor not going to be in the next gen cobra. Unless the new 5L is going to incoprate modual technology.
But then again I would'nt pay 54,000 for a mustang.

TPI Guy

I'm saying, if the modular 8 had the potential to push out more than 600 HP, why aren't they doing it? The 4.6's are't going to take the back seat to the LS1's if they can't help it because HP numbers sell cars. Need I remind you of the Cobra Fiasco? Thousands of Modular 4.6's recalled because they were nowhere near advertised hp.

The 50,000 Cobra R still gets its @ss handed to it by the Z06. Ford has done some good things, but the modular 4.6 isn't one of them.

bzznczzn

The LS1 is a true masterpiece. Sorry, but the 4.6 is nothing further than a non productive fancy motor. LS1's are putting down 300+rhp stock. They also get in the 30mpg range. These engines are realistically 360-370hp motors STOCK. A nice thunder cam with headers and you will have a 400rhp car with stock heads. When the 4.6 starts producing #'s like this, then I'll give ford it's due. Right now, there not even close and by the time Ford catches up with the LS1, GM will have an even better version that will once again be leaps and bounds better than the ford powerplant there running.

Tom 400 CFI

Try 30+ mpg

So. Which engine is better? The Ford guys pretty much tell it how it is here:
http://www.corral.net/Forums/Forum1/HTML/082169.html

LS1's are awesome.

99Hawk120

Vader, no offense, but LS1/6 engines have oil consumption issues. It's hard to find an LS1 that has gone 20k without "losing" oil, much less 200k. Of course, the oil is burned rather than leaking everywhere, so at least it doesn't make a mess in the engine compartment.

cort351w

Yeah!! Z06! My dad has one and it is very nice. It is completely stock and corners like its on rails.

Is there any other analogy for great cornering--the rails one has really been used too much.

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91 formula WS6 305 tpi, T-5, 20,xxx actual miles, Cyclone headers, true dual exhaust with Borla XR-1 oval sportsmans, Moroso Blue Max wires, filtercharged

Guest

Entirely possible, but I doubt anyone could do that with one NA. Theres just not enough cubes.

As a matter of fact...
It also has an oversize oil pan.

No offense, but the Cobra engine has about as much in common with the SOHC version as it does with the LS1. There were some bottom end oiling problems with the early SOHC engines, and knock (piston slap) when firing the engine up after it had been sitting for long periods of time, since the idiots at Ford didnt test that, they had them in cabs and such... cars that never saw downtime. The DOHC engine is alot different and doesnt share the same oiling problems. The later engines also have had improvements to help fix the problem, although its far from ideal. I do know of a couple that were well into the 150k mark that were still ok. The early ones were so bad even Ford knew anything more than 250hp without something done to the oiling system would send the crank to an early grave.

I couldnt agree with you more. They have been working on a new POS to replace the old POS for about 4 years now. Dont know what it is yet. Rumor has it that its a pushrod 5.0L. LOL!

I guess you've been asleep the past 5 or so years... Mustangs have been absolutely killing the F-body in sales.

And as for the why cant Ford make as much power issue...

WHY are we comparing apples to oranges? Just because its a Mustang? The engines arent even close to the same thing, the 4.6 has alot less cubes than the 5.7 LS1. As for what cubes can do, I've seen some downright nasty results from a stroked 5.4 truck block (to 5.8L) running stock Cobra stuff on top. The cubes make a big difference. The 4.6 we are comparing is also a 4 valve per cylinder engine, it doesnt really make any low end power, and likes to rev to make its power. Look at where the HP peak is... Yikes! Remind you of a Honda at all? 320@6000 in the new ones for those of you who dont know. The LS1 is entirely different, its bigger (not physically, just in displacement... the 4.6 is a huge engine on the outside) only has 2 valves, and actually makes some torque... novel concept to have in a relatively heavy car. The stock torque curve alone is enough to put the HonduhFord 4.6 DOHC in its place.

I dont think theres any comparison. The LS1 was a massive step away from the venerable SBC, and IMO it trounces it badly. Its not even funny. The 4.6 SOHC was a complete joke, easily eaten by a 5.0. Thats advancement I tell ya... The DOHC engines were better, but even Cadillac was getting 300hp out of a 4.6 before Ford was. Theres another idea, look at how much potential the Caddy motor has... its much the same as the Ford.

If I had to pick... depends on what I want. If I wanted a high revving supercharged engine, I would not hesitate to buy a Cobra engine, they take real well to lots of boost. If I was running something that might see some nitrous or just be NA, I wouldnt even consider the Cobra engine as an option, it would be a waste of time and money. Apples and oranges.... Pick your combination up front and then choose the apple or the orange, dont try to compare them.

bowtieguy01

I was just told that car and driver voted between the SS camaro, and the Cobra. And car and driver voted the daily driver cobra was the choice.

Is this true?

FstBrd6point3

I think it was TPIGuy who said it, and I would like to agree with him on one thing. . that the 4.6 and the 5.7 are completely different motors, but! ford does manage to push 320 HP out of a 4.6 (except for that embarassing incident in 99 lol). while chevy is pushing 320 hp form a 5.7. . . if you look at the hp/inches. . ford has chevy blown out of the water. and take the new lightning and cobra R motors into acount and you are talkin some seriosu modular power. The Cobra R pushes 385 hp from 5.4 liters, and all naturaly aspirated. . . with just the 4.6, a 9 or 12 pound supercharger can push incredable numbers (some close to 500hp) from an otherwise stock very small block v8, now just think what can be done with a supercharged 5.4 . . . I have no doubt that can touch the 600 horsepower mark with those engines, it is just a matter of how much you want to spend. . but isn't that what all engine building is about? what you want, and what you can afford?? I will stick with my 350/383 for now. . . but I am young, so some day. . ya never know

cort351w

Silly ford, lol! Funny thing how Chevy got it right the very first time around--LT5!! The new Z06 with the 405hp Z06 is the first thing to equal the LT5 and look how long it has taken. Chevy builds the regular ones better, and on the rare occasion that it does something out of the ordinary, it does it right.

BTW, yeah--car & driver picked the cobra over the SS. I'm really getting tired of the "new car" magazines.

Vader

Tom,

They have reason to be afraid. One of the last posts I read repeated what I have said for a while now. The older 302 is a lot better design than the 4.6L Romeo, no matter how many cams you cram into the heads. Even the Ford guys know it.

There's nothing wrong with a central camshaft - unless you're asking the opinion of a Japanese car engineer. Personally, 30+ MPG, gobs of torque, and more than adequate horsepower seems like the best of all situations. (SBC) I'd prefer not to have an engine that has to run at 8,000 RPMs to make it's peak power, and expect to drive it daily for more than a couple of years. Have you seen the new Hondas? They are "proud" of the fact that they can make 260 HP. What they don't tell you is that peak torque is somewhere just above 120 ft/lb and peak power is a 8,000 RPM. What a POS. I can do the same thing with a freakin' outboard, dude. But they are getting almost 33 MPG. I guess it's worth the fuel economy to have a ride with absolutely no class...

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Later,
Vader
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If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
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[This message has been edited by Vader (edited November 16, 2001).]

bowtieguy01

So if the cobra got picked by the magazine,
If its the "better choice" then wh is ford coming back out w/ the CJ. With solid axles.
I guess the post before is correct. Ford really ever digs into one design. But in that test that the mag did, the cobra turned a 13.5, same as the SS. I thought a camaro was faster in every sense.

bowtieguy01

87_T/A_LB9

FstBrd6point3,

What you aren't taking into consideration is the fact that GM is underrating the he11 out of the LS1. Their true horsepower @ crank is closer to 350 or 360. They are also using the old 2v pushrod design compared to Ford's DOHC setup.

You talk about getting 320hp out of their 281 like it's a lot. What about the Z06 getting 405hp out of a 347? The LS6 is different from the LS1 from the heads up. It's still the same displacement. If you want to talk about Ford pushing #s out of small displacement, I'll talk about GM pushing the LS6 to 405hp. You know why GM doesn't push the R&D on their engines? They don't HAVE to. Ford isn't making them work for competition of the King of the Street title, so why spend more money on experimenting with combinations? Ford hasn't put up a close fight since the introduction of the 4th gen F-body.

Also, Ford is marketing the Cobra to fight the F-bodies. However, that leaves the GT to it's little niche of the market(the ones that want the title but not really the performance). A Cobra costs just as much as an F-body but it has 50 less hp at the rear wheels and they handle just about the same.

We could go on all day long but I think I've proven my point. If you didn't catch it, it's this: GM doesn't push their engine technology because they have no reason to. Why strive for more hp & torque per ci when you don't have to? You're already kicking the competition's *** so why try and go any farther until you have to?

88blkiroc

I dont know if the magazine guys are pullin a plug to make the chevy's slower or what, but a 13.5 out of an SS is HORRIBLE. one of my best friends has a BONE stock 99 Z and he cranked out a 13.3 in hot weather. Im sure if he ran with it as cool as it is now it would be a 13 flat car no problem. No way in hell are the mustangs even close to touching an f-body in any performance area.

1987thirdgen

I take the magazine reviews with a grain of salt.
All they are is a competition to see who will pay for the best review.
As usual, Ford spends more on advertising.
Seems those magazines have not gave GM an honest review in years, but the company has completely turned around from collapse in a few years. Gimme a break.

On a side note- those Subaru flat four are monsters! That is one Jap motor I appreciate.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Dear Lord man! Have some respect for the dead! This thread has been resting peacefully for over 10 years now.

lunati397

why is there swap kits for LSX to ford cars but no kits for a 4v modular to gm cars

LSX imo is one of the best motors out there right now excluding the new LT5

Vader

Wow, a real blast from the past! Makes me want to take a reminiscing stroll through the local junk yard.

lunati397

hey someone used the search function dont hate