dennisbernal91z

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I updated my site with a lot of new pics. Maybe you can take a look IHI and let me know what I am doing wrong. You can see my fuel set up there. Thanks

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Dennis, the first thing I notice is your using those Fram fuel filters. Those are great for common everyday street cars with typical low flow fuel pumps but they only allow 90gph flow which is considerably less than what your pump is capable of that is a restriction. If using a Holley Red pump they'd be fine, but as soon as you step to a Holley blue pump which can free flow 110gph your pump is already exceeding flow capacity of what the Fram filter will allow which can ultimately lead to fuel starvation at the big end or WOT for a long duration of time.

Next thing I noticed were the filters were plumbed BEFORE the fuel filter...this is a no-no. These high flow fuel pumps are not designed to suck, they are deesigned to push. Making them suck through a low flow paper element like the Fram filters is going to put undue stress on the pump and could possibly cause cavitation and the end result is a pump being scared internally and losing the ability to seal and provide the psi needed to operate your system and engine requirements. I went through a streak after having my stock tank sumped of getting crap stuck in the fuel pump and causing it to freeze up. I installed a high flow filter that used a stainless steel mesh screen to catch the larger chunks of crap before it could get to my fuel pump and the filter was rated to wet flow 300gph so it was free flowing enough to allow fuel to be draw through it et filtered enought to stop crap from jamming up my pumps impeller. Aeromotive was not keen on this idea either, but understood I had to so something as I kept sending my pump in to get rebuilt every month for the first 3 months due to crap screwing it up. I then installed a high flow paper element filter from Aeromotive prior to line going into regulator to catch the smaller stuff that can hang open needle and seats. Since I installed those items, life has been grand

Maybe the Holley Volumax pumps can have filters pre pump with no trouble since they clout a different impellor design, I dont know, but based off all the other aftermarket pumps out there, pre filtering is a no-no....though sometimes not avoidable. So I would rework that aspect and personally ditch the fram filters for a high flow design, or at the very least install them after the pump outlet.

What is the exact part number for your regulator so I know what I'm looking at. The pictures only showed the top portion and I did'nt get a very good look at the body design. Put up a link or at least a p/n so I can link up and check which one you have.

Either way, if you still have the same problem of burying the fp guage and gas blowing past the needle and seat it's a regulator issue and not a fuel delivery issue since obviously you have more than enough fuel being supplied, but are lacking a means of regulating how much fuel is delivered to the carb. And FWIW, once it's all said and done, invest in a good autometer fp guage you can mount out away from the engine bay and heat since those cheapies are very prone to false readings when warmed up, does not matter if liquid filled or not. I've seen too many of them give false readings when mounted next to the engine like yours. So either mount one under a cowl or buy the isolater so you can mount the guage inside the car and use that only for setting pressure and seeing what's happening when your at WOT for a duration of time. The little ones look neat but I lost faith in them yrs ago when we had 7 of us parked next to each other in the pits and after we all made a pass psi ranged from 0-15psi after they all showed 7psi idle pressure fresh off the trailer. We heard about these things being junk and wanted to see for ourselves and found out quickly rumor is true.

Josh

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

ALlright IHI, thans for the insight.

These Volumax pumps say that you need to pre-filter, so I dunno I guess that is just what this gerator pump design likes. I used the 2 Frams just cuz they flow 90 and I am running 2. That means only 1/2 the total flow is going through each. 90+90=180GPH. That is 20 more than my pump pushes. I know it is supposed to push, not pull and thats why I set it up that way. The gas falls into the pump and the filters natually and then the pump just has to push the gas to the front.

There is another filter before the carb that is that long black Holly that is rated to flow around 200GPH. So that is all set. I am pretty sure the filter set up is OK. I am gonna leave it like that till i hit any problems, just due to no $ now and that I really do feel like it is allright.

I guess what I am looking for now is IHI, can you maybe tell me how your set up is? I am thinking about running a return line from the carb to the tank, and also have the return from the pump go to the tank. They would use the same port, so I would have to use a Y piece.

Think this will work?

I do not have a part # right now. It is the only regulator they have that looks like that. 1 IN and 4 OUT. made for carb or F.I. with the swap of the spring.

I could get part #s but I jst don't have time right now. Later

-Dennis

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Mine is a cut and dry -12 blue line from the sump in tank that goes into a steel mesh high flow filter, froom the filter into the pump, then -12 from pump to front of car where I step it down and change it over to -10 braided stainless that goes into a Aeromotive high flow paper filter then my regulator-the basic Aeromtive that looks like a standard holley regulator, and 2 -4 from regulator to carb bowls.

pump had a by pass port built in and I ran -8 from pump back to top of the tank.

I dont have any technical fuel system pictures, just a few from a distance.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the pics.

Man I am confused now though. As I am 99% sure mine is set up in a very similar way.

The only difference is that my pump has 2 IN. and my tank has 2 OUT. But whatever that makes no difference at all.

I guess my next question is, what happens to the fuel when it gets to your carb? It gets stepped down and then it is at a lower pressure, but what causes it to not build up? Doesn't it need some sort of return line? I am just shooting out ideas.....I was under the imprestion that my set up was almost (fundamentally) the same as yours.

MAN I DUNNO WHAT TO DO.....


Maybe part #s will help..... I will get all of them,
and report back.

For every single part of the fuel system.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Starting with the tank and working my way from there....

All part #s are off the jegs website.

TANK.................555-15330
-vent port:...vented outside of car
-2 OUT:........fed into FRAM filters
-1 IN:...........returning from pump

2 Pre-filters......410-HPG1
-1 IN:...........from tank
-1 OUT:........to pump

PUMP...............510-12-705-1
-return:.......back into top of tank
-2 IN:..........from FRAM filters
-1 OUT:.......to Holley filter

Post filter........510-162-517
-1 IN:..........from pump
-1 OUT:.......to regulator

Regulator........027-13301
-1 IN:.........from Holly filter
-3 OUT:......2 pluged and 1 to carb lines
-1 return:...........

OMG!!!!!!!!!! nevermind IHI!....I just found out i installed the damn regulator wrong. OMG. WOW.

I would have never figured it out if I had not started to make this list.


The regulator I have is a bypass regulator. It needs a return line to the tank. My pump also has a return line. I guess I will use a Y right before the tank and let them both return.

Man I can't believe this was the problem. I will order all the parts/fittings that I need tonight and hopefully install them when I manage to get some free time. Then I will report back.....My next problem will be getting the motor in the right postion for start up, but I am pretty sure I understand that. I have to install the rest of the interior still anyways, (and finish the stainless steel brake lines)

Mid-terms are comin up so the project will be at a stand still for a bit

IHI

iTrader: (1)

LMAO!!!! It's always the dumb little things LOL!!

Glad you realized what happened so you can now move forward and get that beast fired up and closer to street time, judging from your site, it's been a long time coming.

For what it's worth my system is a dead head design, all the fuel goes to the regulator and "backs up" there until it's needed. The A2000 did have a built in by-pass internally so any excess pressure would by pass inside the pump and feed back to the tank. Aeromotive was very impressed this pump lasted as long as it did as it's not designed for long term street use and they recommended I use the A1000. I was also told if running a huge pump like this on the street to get a fuel pump brain box to step down voltage and slow down output so fuel did not get soo hot. I was told by a guy that had a pro street set-up the fuel got soo hot internally by-passing through hte fuel pump it was actually hot inside the fuel cell, he installed the brain box and it fixed the problem.

Good luck and keep us posted with anymore ?'s and prgress. Good luck on Mid terms.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

OK, well it is finally spring break and I am happy to say that I got it to fire up yesterday!!!!!!!


I can not get it to stay on too long though. I think it is something with the carb. I know my timimng is off, but i am in the right ball park. Also did I buy a timing gun that was too cheap, cuz this one just flashes a light, that is like a flashlight whenerver the #1 wire is used. How do u use this to set the timing?

I got a sound pic on my cell phone, but can't get the info off. I am gonna get a better cond bite tomorow.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Congratulations!!! Makes it all worth while to hear'em fire up, now the daunting task of working out bugs LOL!!

The gun you bought is what most shade tree mechanics keep in their tool box since it's rarely used, if your going to play with cars buying an advanced timing light for future uses is really nice to have around. For setting your timing I'm assuming your damper is marked with degree's on it, have a buddy hold your motor at 3500 rpm and just turn the distributor until the 3?* mark hits the tab on your blocks timing marker, initally you can start at 36* and go from there.

Once you get your timing set to 36* then adjust your idle speed so the car will idle at around 1000rpm to start, then have your buddy or you put the car into gear and see how much it lugs down, adjust your idle from there, sometimes big cams need to idle at 1000rpm so when you drop it into gear it'll stay running, other times the convertor is loose enough whatever you set idle rpm at (say 850rpm) it will stay at 850rpm when placed in gear.

After you get it idleing right shut it off and make sure it does'nt diesel, then start it back up. It should turn over easy and pop right off...all this should be done with engine at operating temperature.

Now just move onto your carburator and start fine tuning your idle speed mixture screws, most cars street or strip all seem to hover around the screws likeing to be 1.25 to 1.5 turns OUT from fully seated. Every combination will be different so you'll have to see how your motor responds.

Then go in and with car at operating temps and in gear get a manifold vacuum reading (if using a holley) so you know which PV to install. Cut your vacuum reading in half and tha'ts the PV you should install front and back. Vacuum at 5" install 2.5" PV's

If you choose to plug rear PV the rear jets will need to be about 6 numbers higher to compensate under acceleration.

Have fun

Josh

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Oh man. IHI, You gotta help me! I can't get this damn motor to idle or even stay on at all.... It has been a real pain in the ***. I got the right plugs, there is obviously air getting to the carb, and the PSI is set to 7. The 750 Holly DP was not adjusted at all from when i got it out of the box, but I feer that I might have got something stuck in something cuz the motor is just not turning on. I have no idea what to do.

I thought the battery was dead, but nope. I jumped the car and still will not turn on at all. It just turns over with the starter.... bareley even a pop EVER.

I thought i flooded the motor or the carb, so i let it sit for a day, and i also swapped the carb for another one i had laying aorund, a 600 single pumper that has vacume secondaries. Same exact problem. no idea what the deal is.

I took the plugs out and they were wet with gas, so i turned the engine over a few times to have it puch anything in the cylinders out. and get them dry.

I cleaned off the plugs and I tried again.

It poped a bit and sounded like it was about to turn on then nothing.....and I tried again, and it went back to sounding like nothing was happening....just the starter turning it over....

Now I am at a dead end, I have run out of ideas, and I am about to be done with spring break.... If you can help me out (or anyone for that matter) please chime in asap.

Thank you

-Dennis

88_Import_Slaye

check plug wire config, maybe you have them backwards? Also, your timing could be a factor, try to adjust it while stating the car. Turn it to advance it, then try a start. Also, you might have the dizzy 180 out, that is common.

Dont freak out, it's a simple problem i'm sure. Just sit back and think logically

Edit: Make sure your dizzy is getting +12v

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

how do i make sure the dizzy is getting 12V?

Also how would I know if my dizzy is 180 out?

-I turned the motor over with the starter till my finger got pushed oiff the #1 plug

-Then I rotated the dizzy so that the rotor was pointing close to the #1 plug

-Then I put the cap back on and I tried turing it on. I am not sure what else to do....

I am kinda skeptical about what I might have done hooking up the dizzy to the iginition box. Maybe I messed that up. Or also the 3 pugs on the dizzy...

There is a (-) a (+) and ground on it.

I have the box and the tack going to the (-) is that right?

do i check the 12V at the (+)?



omg I have so many Q's I wish someone lived by me..ugh....

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Remond me what exact components you using for your ignition. Standard MSD billet distriubtor? 6AL? blaster type coil? or something totally different?

I'm guessing 1 of 2 things right now off the top of my head based off you have the distributor installed right since we've all went to great detail about that process LOL!!

First would be use a test light/voltmeter and see that the coil positive is getting 12V when the key is in the cranking position, I've seen this happen a few times where a wire was hooked up wrong and the coil went dead when key is cranking-typically got wired into a circuit such as radio circuit that cuts power when cranking-very easy mistake to make.

If you have'nt touched the 750 carb and bolted it on straight from teh box, the carb is fine assuming you pre flushed all your fuel lines prior to hooking them up, if not it's totally plausable some tiny rubber from inside the hoses were torn off and are stuck in teh needle and seats allowing too much fuel by and will quickly flood the engine/make your plugs wet. This is quickly fixed by just taking the carb apart and removing the needle and seat checking for debris and then blowing out the orfices in the metering block and reassembling.

If those things are fine and you know dizzy is phased correctly-which it should be by the method you used to install it. Have a buddy slowly rotate the distributor 1 way or the other while your cranking. This is also a very common thing to do when firing a new motor since rarley unless your diligant do you get it where it needs to be the first time dropping the dizzy in. You will hear the motor change pitch as the distributor is being rotated while your cranking it over and at some point is should fire, then it's a race to set timing so that aspect is temporarily done for now.

If using an ignition box such as a 6AL there is a spade terminal on the box itself the tach wire is hooked to, not the coil wire. If nothing else disconnect the tach wire temporarily from the coil and see what happens. not saying it's grounding itself out, but without being there to trace wires I'm just making assumtions.

Josh

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

no idea what to do....

I am not sure how or what to check now.

I am just gonna disconect the ignition box and put the dizzy back to how it was stock. THen see what happens. There are just too many variables right now.

I will get back to you guys when I have tried this.

Twelvz

thread isn't too old to bring back...hopefully haha

Never read about heat cycling. Machine shop having me re tourque th heads after an initial 30 minute startup then cool down period. Does this only happen in certain circumstances?

88_Import_Slaye

I checked the head bolts after initial cam breakin, i thought it was standard procedure.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Back from the dead!!!


I GOT IT STARTED FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!

I have learned a lot in building this car. Man IHI if you still can see this thread, thanks for helping me so much along the way, man was I a tool bag. I had no idea what I was doing. I am pretty much all set now thank god.

This cam is huge and insane. No idea what I was thinking but damn it is gonna be fun.

Thanks again to all those that helped,

Rob Wade

Haha Dennis......i was just wondering about you. No offence but it sounded like you were a bit in over your head, at the begining. Congrats for sticking with it. Some times the best way to learn, is to do.........and hope it doesn't cost you a million dollars to do so! Good job.

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

hehe, thanks. Turns out my only real problem was my idle screws were a bit messed up and I had a bad dizzy ground. Thats it. HAHA

91GTABird

...any people get frustrated with efi

Dennis

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Dennis, glad to hear your up and running!!!!

It's always the littlest things that cause you soo much headaches trying to track down, and then once you find it, ya slap your self thinking DUH!!!

You bit off a lil more than the average bear with no experience, but look at what you've learned after the fact. Sometimes jumping knee deep in the mix and figuring it out is the best way to do things so my hats off to you for having a goal, sticking with it and executing it!!! I hope you get many miles of enjoyment from this combination and I'm sure once the final tune is done it's sure to be a rocket ship!!

Side note, dont know what I was thinking, getting bored not racing I guess but Saturday ordered up a nitro R/C truggy to start racing at the local track. They called today to let me know it was ready to pick up (I had them set it up and break in the motor) I was pathetic on the track learning to drive this thing, kept getting in peoples way, literally running over other guys' buggies, flipping all the time, running off the track etc.. LOL!! I was soo virgin out there it was sick. I have no idea WTF is involved with setting this thing up so I'm in your same boat right now Dennis, jumping into something I know absolutely nothing about except I can trick this thing to the max and not have what I used to spend in fuel/tires per month drag racing LOL!! Just hoping the guys down there are as helpful as the boyz at the real race track to speed up my learning curve and make life easier. The shop owners seem really nice to get along with and found out they live in my neighborhood and were inquiring about having me do some work for them!!

dennisbernal91z

iTrader: (2)

Very good to hear from you IHI. You are def one of the people I wanted to know helped me a lot.

Sounds like we are both learning something new, hehe. Allways fun!

Anyways, I will be getting the timing and so on dialed in, in the next couple weeks as I do not have the tools right now and am gonna have a friend do it, and show me how to do it all.

Its kinda funny, my new friend that came over to help get her fired up, is the first person in 3 years that has been in my garadge that knows more about this stuff than me, hehe...

On a crappy note, I tried to press the clutch in and the pedal wouldn't move, so i pushed harder and harder, and bam, I bent the damn plunger benhind the pedal. Now I need new hydrolics for the clutch and I need to find out why it was stuck.... Oh well. I am not too worried, anything should be easy to figure out after wiring the whole car and finally get it to turn on.

later

-Dennis