M1tch

Hey guys I have a 87-92 hydraulic roller motor #638 block and i've been noticing some ticking from inside the valve covers. I've been told mixed information regarding valve adjustment for my car. I have vortec heads with beehive springs and stock steel rockers and stock pushrods along with hydraulic lifters. My car has the spider web setup to hold the lifters in place. I've also noticed a sound from the exhaust that has a ping noise at idle every now and then and im wondering if its not a lifter or loose rocker.

How do I go about adjusting the valves? Are they self aligning like some people have told me? I was also told that to be self aligning they have to be full roller rockers which i dont have. So if they are self adjusting what should the nut be tightened too? Thanks guys

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

"Self-aligning" simply means the rockers are made to align themselves on the valve stem tip. They can be full roller, roller tip, or stamped steel like the factory - any can be self-aligning. Self-aligning has nothing to do with adjusting the rocker for proper lifter plunger location (improper adjustment will lead to lifter/rocker noise).

The proper method for adjusting the rockers is the same as any SBC hydraulic cam. Adjust to zero lash, then one additional turn down.

M1tch

Could i do this by eye? I watched a box wrench video but they had the intake off. Can i wait until each cylinder has both rockers completely even with one another (closed) and then tighten until you feel tension on the pushrod while spinning it? And thats zero lash, then you turn one half turn?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

No, it isn't that simple. There are 3 basic ways to adjust valves, I'll describe the two simpler ones (there isn't one that is particularly better than any of the three with hydraulic lifters).

You can adjust them with the engine running. Have the engine up to running temperature. Take off one valve cover, start the engine, and let it idle. Loosen the first rocker until you get a tapping sound, then slowly tighten that rocker until the tap goes away. Then slowly turn it down one additional turn (you have to go slow or the lifter will keep the valve open and may stall the engine - a little rough running while you turn it down is normal). Repeat on the other 7 rockers on that side, shut the engine off, put that valve cover back on and go over to the other side and repeat everything over there. Some oil will splash over things, so expect to have to do a little clean up afterward.

You can also do it with the engine off. Basically what you do is have it up to running temp, shut the engine off, and remove both valve covers. Loosen all the rockers. Turn the engine over until the timing mark is aligned with the timing tab (it's usually better to do this with a wrench on the damper bolt than to try to use the starter). Go over each rocker and take out any slack (and just take out the slack - you can twirl the push rod as you tighten, or check the rocker for rocking motion side-to-side - don't over-tighten!). Now, turn the crank 1/2 turn, go over all the rockers again and tighten any that have slack (12 of them should have some slack). Turn the crank another 1/2 turn (the timing mark should be back at the timing tab now), tighten any rockers that have slack (8 should have slack now). Give the crank one more 1/2 turn, and tighten the remaining rockers that have slack (should be down to 4 with slack by now). Now go back and give every rocker one more turn down. They're set. Put the valve covers back on and start it up.

88formula305tpi

Can you adjust them cold?

I adjusted mine cold after priming my oil pump watching each rocker when it closed the valve tightened untill i couldnt spin the pushrod and another 3/4 turn. it took a few revolutions of the crank but the haynes manual didnt work, the valves they told me to adjust didnt match up.

Now I put 250 miles on the rebuilt engine and it just started ticking only when cold or after it runs untill hot and is shut off for 30 min and restarted.

If the lifter isnt pumped up how will I adjust the lash? Does the lifter have a spring inside to push it back up? If so I dont see why the engine would have to be warm.

Can overtightening hydraullic lifters just a little make noise? Also would the valves hang open? Im just curious because I went 3/4 turn and it may be too much.

SpitotRs305

if you over tighten any lifter it will cause the valve to hang open which by the sound of it you did

you dont need to tighten until the push rod stops turning but until all the horizontal play has been taken up... now for preload some people say 1 turn.... i personally do this with the engine cold so i like to go between 1/4-1/2 turn... the full turn really isnt necessary

the lifters do contain springs which will push the plunger up against the retainer

88formula305tpi

So when the valve hangs open does it make an exhaust leak ticking type sound?

It must either be that or too loose and slamming the retainer.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 88formula305tpi!!

I would use the first method that five7kid explained in his post!!

With the engine running, you can hear which lifter is making the noise, and whether or not it goes away with setting up the correct lash!!

Determines right away if you have an actual "bad" lifter!!

game1939

Here are step by step instructions:

1. Remove the valve cover.
2. Identify the number one cylinder. Turn the engine over until you see the number one cylinder exhaust valve rocker arm JUST START to move from the closed position to open. You may need to turn the motor over a couple of times to reach this point, but do not turn any further.
3. Locate the intake valve.
4. Loosen the rocker arm adjustment nut until you feel some obvious lash or clearance in the adjustment.
5. Using the thumb and index finger of one hand, grasp the intake push rod below the rocker arm, and rotate it back and forth (clock-wise and counter clock-wise successively to be sure there is no remaining pressure on the push rod from the rocker arm as you loosen the rocker arm adjusting nut.
6. Using the other hand, while continuously performing step 6, with a 5/8 socket and ratchet, tighten the rocker arm adjustment nut slowly until you feel a resistance of motion on the push rod.
7. This will be the zero lash adjustment point. For hydraulic lifters, tighten the rocker arm adjustment nut 3/4 of a turn. For solid lifters, back off the rocker arm adjustment nut until your feeler gauge just fits under the contact point between the valve stem and the rocker arm. Fine tune the adjustment by checking it with a feeler gauge just slightly thicker than the preferred clearance to be sure the clearance is not greater than it should be. If the larger feeler gauge will fit, it needs to be re-adjusted. A lash tolerance of 1-2 thousandths of an inch in the valve adjustment for solid lifters would be acceptable since it may be difficult for someone who is in-experienced to be more precise than that.
8. Turn the engine over until the intake valve opens and then is almost closed.
9. On the exhaust valve, repeat steps 5 through 8 for the exhaust valve adjustment.
10. Repeat this procedure for each cylinder. Be sure to do each cylinder sequentially, either following the firing order, following the cylinders numerically, or in the case of a V8 doing one side of the engine at a time. I prefer to do one side of the engine at a time

88formula305tpi

I just got done adjusting them with it running. Wasnt too messy besides the coolant heater valve leaked everywhere since I didnt block it. The oil didnt shoot out unless it was over idle so that wasnt a problem. The fumes started getting to me and I just came inside to let it cool, de-fume and the paint dry on my valve covers.

One valve started ticking when I barely loosened it less than a 1/4 turn and the others all took at least a 1/2 turn to tick so I think that was the one that was noisy. I slowly tightened them untill each one stopped ticking and then went 1/2 turn to colmplete the adjustment.

By the way the injectors tick almost as loud as the freaking valves when they are loose, and the drivers side valve cover is much easier to remove. I did one side at a time.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 88formula305tpi!!

Now wasn't that easy!!!!

88formula305tpi

yeah, too bad my intermittant maf sensor code popped back in and I just lost to an ls1 camaro

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 88formula305tpi!!

You didn't lose, you just didn't win, it's all in how you look at things!!



Did you not win by much????

88formula305tpi

He passed me right after I shifted into second then was ahead not to far 5-7 car lengths at 100. it was my freind with a 2000 z28 ls1. I have 1.6 rockers and hooker headers and 3 inch exhaust which helped but it still doesnt like high rpms due to the stock tpi and Original fuel pump. The ls1 just has the horspower and mine seemed to have the torque which I like the torque mine puts out for a 305.

then we stopped and I restarted my car and the maf code came back after not seeing it for a year and its been a problem every year since 92 in the reciept the car came with. Everything has been repaced and I ohmed the wires last year and rebuilt the engine replaced vaccuum lines. I think the sensor is bad but its so intermittant and expensive of a guess. not to mention its been replaced twice along with the ecu. O well nothings perfect i guess.

hotrodln

The HOT , running method seems to work best...much less guess work...the only thing i would add to "five 7's instructions would be to add a piece of cardboard about 6 inches high that runs the length of the head....it will keep the oil from splashing on you exhust manifold.....

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 88formula305tpi!!

Your racing a 2000 Z-28 5.7L with 305 HP and 335 lb ft of torque stock, to your 5.0L 220 HP 295 lb ft of torque stock, and you expect to win????

You kind of run out of motor when he's in the meat of his power band!!

I guess that you won't really know until you try, oh well, second winner!!

What code do you get????



Sabotage.........that will work!!

Sabotage your friends car, guaranteed win!!!



Don't let him catch you after he finds out, because we all know payback is a B****!!

88formula305tpi

I keep getting code 34 usually only when starting it up but I think once or twice when I was driving, the engine dies coming to a stop unless I keep my foot on the gas only when the engine light is on. If I clear it the car runs fine, and when I try to set min idle speed the manual says to disconnect the iac but i remember my car wouldnt run while following haynes manual.

My ticking noise also happened on the cold start for 5 or ten seconds too after the valve adjustment (Sounds like exhaust leak to me). I just did the first oil change today after warming it up and noticed fine metal fragments but Im pretty sure its normal for break in.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 88formula305tpi!!

Have you got any "air leaks" behind the MAF but before the throttle body???

Cracks in the hose between the MAF and the throttle body can cause a code 34!!!

Check out your hose clamps attaching the hose also, they could have a sealing problem!!

Last but not least, when the code 34 sets, does the car start with a low idle, sets the code 34, then picks up to a normal idle???



The ticking noise, try retightening your exhaust manifold bolts when the engine is cold, since you suspect exhaust noise!!

88formula305tpi

I checked the clamps when I put the engine back in but I am going to look closer at the hoses and sensor for air leaks since it may be cracked where I cant see.

The light hasnt come back in 200 miles so far.

I tryed tightening the header bolts last week I am going to check the flange bolts too when I jack it up to fix my converter exhaust mount that just ripped around the bolts where I attached the rubber to the bracket.

I wish I knew where to get a mount for the 5 speed and not the automatic since I have to switch the rubber to my old bracket to line up with the convertor flange.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 88formula305tpi!!

Classicindustries.com has the transmission mount for your car, for $9.99 They quote the mount as the same for the automatic and the manual, part # T83161 This is for the original style replacement transmission mount!!

88formula305tpi

I need the catlytic convertor hanger.

I thought the tick was gone but I started it after 3 days of sitting and it ticked loud for a few seconds and became quieter.

Going to order new pushrods but wondering if I should get the stock ones, I have new lifters and rocker arms comp cams 1.6 roller tips?

SeanW

Your ticking is likely coming from your lifters collapsing not because you have lash.

88formula305tpi

Was I supposed to take the new lifters apart and clean them before I installed them? I only soaked them in oil first.

Is one end of the pushrod different, they looked identical but I read on a thread that one end is hardened and I only kept them in order per cylinder and did not pay attention to which end was up?

Another couple of things:

1. after starting engine with valve covers off oil takes 10-15 seconds to come thru pushrod to rocker arms.
2. only squirts from pushrods above idle
3. when i dropped the used accel distributer i bought in I noticed a gouge in the lower rings on the housing near the gear but Im not sure if this is too critical.
4. oil pressure is pegged at 60psi until engine warms up and then reads 50 at the lowest and pegs out above idle.
5. I use ac delco oil filters and 5w30 oil.
6. hard to tell if it goes away since injectors are so loud and some seem to pulse harder when listening to each one with screwdriver.
7. not sure why a new lifter would be bad?
8. are the gaskets that come with headers prone to leaking even after tightening bolts cold?

JakeJr

Some new lifters come with a grease installed in the roller bearing areas and those lifters come with a warning that the grease must be removed before the lifters are installed.

After removing all the grease, the new lifters are then soaked in oil. I always turn the rollers while holding the lifter submerged in oil to make sure oil has entered the bearing area.

This "preload" amount thing gets kicked around all the time and recommendations vary all across the board. One guy recommends only "one flat' turn while another recommends 1-1/4 turns. 3/4 turn of lifter preload isn't too much, in fact GM recommends one full turn on their lifters. I use 3/4 turn which is on the low side of the GM recommended setting (3/4 turn to 1-1/4 turn)

Over tightening the adjusting nut will cause the valve NOT to seat fully leading to a bad idle, not noise. Too LITTLE preload results in the noise issue and can eventually destroy the lifter when the retaining ring lets go.

There are several different ways to set lifter preload; all of 'em will work if done properly. The REAL KEY is to be sure the lifter is on the base circle of the cam's lobe when searching for ZERO LASH.

Jake

88formula305tpi

I just pulled the valve cover again and cant find anything wrong.
I am going to wait untill morning and see if one is loose or collapsed if possible.
when I started it today I heard a different noise like a tooth broke on my flywheel.
hope it wasnt a pressure plate bolt, i switched to arp bolts.

88formula305tpi

ok the only thing I can think is the rollers on the rockers sound more clangy than the stock rockers did untill oil reaches them.

JakeJr

How was the lifter preload set? The step by step procedure you used would be really helpful.

Jake

88formula305tpi

engine warm idling, backed off each rocker arm nut unitill it clicked then slowly tightened until click was gone and turned an additional 3/4 turn.

Only ticks loud on a cold start, then goes away after10- 20 seconds sometimes ticks longer. when restarted even after a couple of hours it wont do it untill it sits overnight or for a long period. Louder on the right side of engine. Its about the same time 10-20 seconds for oil to get to the rockers and after shut off you can hear the hissing thru the pushrods like its already bleeding down.

88formula305tpi

I had a mechanic listen to it and he said that its normal to have piston slap with certain pistons, and it sounds worse since I start my car in between 2 houses.

I don't think it is piston slap because it gets better after 10 seconds, but I really dont know for sure what piston slap sounds like. The noise I have sounds like a spark plug loose or exhaust leak for 10 seconds on startup under the right rear of the plenum.

I am going to park it away from the houses and see if they were amplifying my noise. I am not going to pull the engine again for piston slap anyway.

91z406

I adjust mine at the base circle of the cam for each rocker this lets you know that the valve is for sure closed. I have never had a issue this way.

SpitotRs305

Brought back from the dead for that tidbit?

91z406

Lol didnt even see the dates my bad

Ryan3834me

Yeah,

Back from the dead!

I'm doing mine today.. I'll post the sequence later, but I remember the HELM for 1988 Firebird printing said 1 1/4 turn. Now did that mean 1 turn plus a quarter, or ONE 1/4 turn. I did 1 & 1/4 turn and nothing blew up on one side. I saw in a fairly decent youtube video it's 1/2 turn for hydraulic, using the same tightening order (turning crank manually).

Perhaps, I'll try the manual one at 1/2 turn past zero lash (backside of lobe), and then do the oil splash method.