frostindahouse

Alright, I checked through the other boards and i cant seem to find the right place to put this so I hope this is the right board.

I have the Haynes manual for my car, and i have disassembled the steering wheel, all the way down to the turn signal switch...

The manual then says to remove the retaining screw for the ignition lock cylinder and turn it to "ON" then it should slide out, but its not sliding out. All screws and the entire turn signal assembly is out.

Is there a trick to this?

also what is the ignition lock safety switch?

Sorry for the stupid questions!

86 Z28 camaro.

AlkyIROC

Did you remove this little torx head screw that's just to the right of the red arrow? That's all that holds the cylinder.

frostindahouse

Yup.

This is what the column looks like.

is there a trick to getting it out? or its supposed to fall right out?

I have about 1/8 an inch of leeway that i can move it back and forth, but its stuck in there, feels like its still secured.

pgmonster

you just have to push really hard i just did mine and it took some force to get that thing out

frostindahouse

Wait...Push or pull?

frostindahouse

ok new problem...

I used "Some Force" as suggested above, and the inside of the cylinder popped out, but the outer cylinder didnt...its still stuck. So now i have a hollow metal cylinder stuck in my steering column preventing me from even starting the car at this point. Anyone who has done this before, even the slightest insight would be helpful.

The one i pulled from my car is on the top...the new one on bottom.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Did you pull out the white plastic piece with the two copper springs on it (red arrow in the photo above) out as well?

frostindahouse

I posted a picture above of what my steering column looks like. as far as i can tell ive removed everything.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It doesn't need to be in the run position. I don't know if that's why it pulled apart, but burn your Haynes and get a Chiltons Total Car Care or GM/Helms manual.

AlkyIROC

I thought you needed a key so the ignition could be unlocked before pulling it out? All the ones I've pulled have always had a key in them.

mattyc

iTrader: (2)

I did this swap in my 85 and i did need it in the run position, maybe it was the giggling around that released it but it came out in the run position

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

GM made 2 different lock cylinders.
one is held in by the little screw.
the other is held in by a spring loaded wedge retaining clip. i believe the one in your column may be the wedge type.
take a small thin bladed flat head screw driver and push into the red circled slot in this picture.
if it has the spring loaded wedge, you will be able to fell it as you push the small screw driver into the slot.
then use a larger flat bladed screw driver were the green circle is and try to pry the lock cylinder housing out.
you should not need to pry very hard.

in some columns you can use either lock cylinder, some you can only the type it had originally.

EDIT*
i found a picture of a lock cylinder that uses the spring loaded wedge retaining clip.
the retaining clip in circled
im also adding this link, it looks like it may be a good source for ignition and door lock cylinders.

http://www.keybitslockandkey.com/los.../gm/gmlock.htm

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Before you fack up your column listen to denn shah.

Zwrench

I noticed in the picture that you have the release lever for a manual trans. I'm not real familiar with those, however. You may have to push down on that to get the cylinder out. Or, you may have to push it down to put it back in the 'lock' position before it will come out. Either way, I think that may be what's holding you up.

frostindahouse

@DENN_SHAH

I love you in the most hetero sexual way possible that a man can love another man. You saved the day!

)(#*^%#)(^%)@#($( Haynes manual. 1 extra sentence would have saved me 2 days of pulling the F*** out of it Not once did i ever question the manuals integrity, I just assumed I was doing something wrong.

Thank you all for all of your help!!!

I am now burning my haynes manual.

frostindahouse

New problem..

Got the old one out fine, but the new one, when i put it in, it works fine, I can turn the car "Off", then i can turn it to the "On" position, then i can turn it to the "Run" position just fine...The problem is that when its in the "off" position it does not go back far enough for the cylinder to release the key and let the key out...

Is this the symptom of my column not being compatible with this new cylinder?(I took out the one with the spring clamp, and im adding in one that is secured by a screw) or is there a way i can fix this? all i need is it to be turned another quarter inch to be perfect...

any ideas?

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

no problem

during the 80s and 90s i repaired more GM steering columns than i can remember, but not very many in the last 5~10 years, and its been even longer since i've worked on one with the key release lever.
so there is a lot i've forgotten.


there may be some other slight difference between the 2 types of lock cylinders that i don't remember and it may cause problems with interchanging them on some columns withthe key release lever, so you may have no choice but to get the correct lock cylinder. hopefully the parts house can figure out which one you need and can get it.
i should also mention GM made at least 1 other lock cylinder that i can think of, it has the switch actuator sector gear made on the lock cylinder, with the gear on it, it is obviously different from the other 2 and will not interchange with the other lock cylinders.

normally any adjustment concerning the position of the ignition key is done with the switch actuator rack and switch actuator sector, but only if they have been disassembled and reassembled wrong.
its some what involved to get to those parts.
the ignition switch can be adjusted, but normally thats not needed when just the lock cylinder is replaced.
the steering lock pin may be binding, but i feel its unlikely be the problem.
you can see the correct placement of the lock pin in picture 52 on the link below.

i wanted to post this the other night, but i couldn't find the link to it.
this is a very good break down of a GM tilt steering column with a lot of good
info and pictures,
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/088020.html

counting each different picture, # 42 shows the sector drive gear.
look for the caption right above the picture of "Here is the ignition lock cylinder cross shaft and sector drive gear:"

picture 52 shows the correct alignment switch actuator rack and switch actuator sector (gear)

picture 53 is the rack.
look for "Here is the ignition sector, (rack), showing the inside with the arch at the right end and the rack at the left end:"

frostindahouse

One thing I just now noticed is that in this picture:



My car did not have that little plastic piece that plugs into under the ignition cylinder...should I have that? what does it do? The article says its for chime...im not sure what that is?

ALSO...I think it is now worth mentioning that the old lock cylinder would turn without a key...maybe it was drilled out or something, i dont know, but would that effect anything?

I also didnt realize ignition cylinders were only 13$...Ill go pick a new one up and examine it before I buy it.

I have the old one so i know where the rotation of the inner cylinder needs to be to work with my car, if they dont match up i can only assume its a problem with my car...

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

if your talking about the piece the arrow is pointing at in the picture that Stephen posted, no it isn't needed. its for the key in chime.
its main purpose is to irritate mechanics while working on the car with the door open and key in the ignition

to turn it without the key the old lock cylinder must have been in either really bad condition or someone damaged it.
with it missing the chime contact someone has definitely been into the column and may have not assembled it right.
hopefully a new lock cylinder will take care of it for you

frostindahouse

I went out and bought another lock cylinder from auto zone...i showed them mine and they went and manually compared them...they found one that was idnticle to the one i pulled out of the column, but it wasn't for a Camaro... weird huh? i had a non-camaro lock cylinder...

Ok, so you know that little lever right to the bottom right of my column? i took Zwrench's advice and pulled it while fiddling with the key, and it actually let the cylinder turn back to where i need it to get the key out.

It "Pops" back into place when i turn they key forward though, and then i have to pull it again to turn the key to the off position...its annoying, but atleast it works...I guess ill never figure out the problem.

I actually bought the car without a key..i think it was a repo. The driver lock was drilled out, and opened with any key, and the lock cylinder turned without a key...Either a professional thief or a repo man. I suspect that that may have been the cause for this issue...I have been discovering things like this ever since i bought the car, but i bought it for a project so its fine in the long run.

Thank you all for your help, especially you Denn_shah! I really appreciate the help...never would have figured this stuff out without you guys.

mattyc

iTrader: (2)

I had a simular experience with the tranny mount. the mount i had actually was from a caprice.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

you have to pull it or push it down?
if your pushing it down, then that is the way it is suppose to work.
its a safety device, IIRC only found on vehicles with a standard transmission to prevent the key being turned to the lock position while your driving.

frostindahouse

Yes push it down...I feel stupid now

This is my first manual car...And to be honest i kinda thought that was the thing you pull to move your steering wheel up/down

Thank you again for all the help!