potterc32

iTrader: (1)

I was cleaning up my car, washing waxing, all that fun stuff, get ready to leave, and my car won't start (acts like it is not in park). It starts up just fine in neutral at that time. Later that evening, it won't even start in neutral. The very next day, I go to give it a shot again, and when I turn the key, it acts like something is broken inside there... You know when you turn the key to "crank" it doesn't stay there, it kicks the key back to the run position. My key is just completely loose inside there. I already replaced the lock cylinder hoping that was the issue, but it does the exact same thing.

someone told me about the ignition rod actuator, and how it could be an issue if it came out of position, or broke or something.

So i have looked all over the place, maybe I'm not looking in the right place. But I can not seem to find any repair info on how to change the ignition rack/rod/actuator or whatever you wanna call it. I have the steering wheel, and the housing pulled off. I can see it, but it doesn't just come right out or anything, and I don't want to break it.


Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

antares57

iTrader: (8)

Just did this last weekend on my 91 base Firebird. My rack has dislodged from the rod and was giving me the exact same symptoms. There is no easy way. With the housing off match the rack to the rod connection (circled). Then placed the housing back on to keep it together. The connection should stay lodged while you place the housing around it. If the disconnect is further in the #129 area it's a whole different story as you may have to replace the rod. Good Luck.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

Is that spring (held in place by the screw just below the rack assembly) what makes the key kick back to the run position and stay in the crank position? or is that on the other end of the actuator rod?

and my spring seems to look like it has be mangled quite a bit, looks almost twisted up.. I will post a picture in a few.

antares57

iTrader: (8)

The twisted spring is normal. I thought it looked weird too. The actuator rod pushes the key back.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

I tried moving it, and it just snapped, so I guess it's time a new kit anyway. So how do I get the rack and actuator out?

I got the first plastic housing pulled off, but there is still a plastic housing covering where the rack and rod connect (which is where I assume my problem is because I can turn the car on using the rod, but not the rack or key itself).
I have it crudely circled in red in one of the pictures.

How do i get this off? I don't see any screws or clips or anything, just a square shaped hole on the bottom left hand side of it. Not sure if it's a clip or not, but I don't want to break anything.

And how do you get the drive gear off of the part that goes to the ignition? the round-ish part that comes with the rack and spring kit. does it just pop off?

antares57

iTrader: (8)

I used this link as a guide even though it's for installing a steering wheel. You need to remove the pivot pins. The link gives guidance how to devise a tool instead of buying one. It should provide, in pictures, alot of help.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/inte...eel-grant.html

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

So I've made that tool to pull out the pins about 4 times now. I keep on breaking the screws, I even rode my bike to the machine shop here in town, and the strongest one he said I would find that size is 304 stainless. So I bought a couple of them. They didn't bend like the phillips head screws did, but the head of the screw just twisted off.

The one on the left side of the column came out relatively easy, but the one on the right will not budge a single bit. Are there any tricks to pulling these things out? And are grade 8 stronger than 304 stainless? The guy at the machine shop told me I wouldn't find a grade 8 in that small of screw/bolt (8-32).

I'm going to check at Home Depot for some grade 8 hardware, and see if that works better, but if anyone has a suggestion let me know!

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

i've occasionally ran into problems where one of the pivot pins wouldn't come out using the puller.
in those cases i ended up using a long skinny punch.
its not exactly easy to do it this way, but it can be done.
you have to go at the pin from the opposite side of the column just under the plastic ball.
normally when i need to use a punch, i'll put the pin that did come out back in most of the way to help take some of the pressure off the stuck pin.
you don't really need a big hammer, a 16 oz is plenty big enough.
most of the time when you get the pin to move a little bit, the puller will take it out the rest of the way.

in the last post by me, the second link has a complete break down of the column.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/faq-...ls-like-2.html

antares57

iTrader: (8)

You did take out the spring that allows the column to tilt, right?

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

the one that has the cover with the square hole? yes. If there is another one that I am not aware of, let me know.

They are pictured in the post at 1:30 a.m. on 08-01-2009 by matthufham.

(post number 9 by the way)

antares57

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, that was the one. Don't know why yours is that tight. My right hand pivot came out with me just hand tightening the screw and pulling.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

How in the world are you able to get around that ball with a straight punch? there is only about a 1/4 inch between the ball and where the pin is.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

a long skinny punch, one similar to this,
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....l&item_ID=9034
&group_ID=1032&store=&dir=catalog

like i said, it isn't easy, but it can be done.
its been a few years since i did the last one.
the way i remember doing it was by sitting on the ground with a well positioned bright flash light looking up into the area where the pin is at. you also need to play with the tilt to get it in the best position.
it seems like i also had to pull the lower steering shaft loose under the hood so the upper shaft had some slack at the lower bearing so it could move a little bit.
get the punch positioned and hit it, reposition the punch and hit it again.
a rough surface on the punch where it contacts the pin helps a little.
i may have ground the end of the punch at a little bit of an angle, but i don't remember.
good luck

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

So there is no way I'm getting a punch to work, i tried, and got it to where I can strike the punch, but the way I'm striking it, I'll end up breaking something else before that comes out. I'm just going to try and drill it out or something as a last resort.

Does anyone know where I can get another pivot pin? I found one on ebay for $25, but good lord, is it made of gold?

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

it must be stuck in there pretty good.
one other thing you can try, put the puller tool on it and tighten it up, not so much that you break the bolt, but enough that you get some tension on it and then try to drive the pin out.

as far as drilling it out, i've never drilled one but i think their pretty tough. so you would probably need a good drill bit.
on finding one? yeah, 25 bucks is way too much for one.
you may try a dealership, or go to a wrecking yard and see if they will sell you damaged column cheap.
most any of the older GM tilt columns will have the same pivot pins, from the pickups, caprice, G-bodies, pretty much any 80s car and most of the early 90 RWD cars.

Vader

Not to offend anyone, but the person at the "machine shop" is a mouth-breathing idiot. 304 and 304L is considerably weaker than carbon steel, both in shear and elongation. It is NEVER to be used in high stress conditions.

Get a good (not Pacific rim) 8-32 machine screw, or and extra long hex recess cap or set screw. Use a washer and nut to extract the pivot pin as the directions describe, and NOT by screwing in the fastener (That's just how a lot of crank snouts get stripped, too). If the pin doesn't budge, apply little heat to the surrounding area (not the pin) and try further.

I have not had any problems using this arrangement:



Make sure you are not fighting yourself, and that the socket is positioned so the pivot pin will clear the opening and not be held in by the rim of the socket.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

Vader, thanks for the info on the 304 stainless screws actually being weaker than good quality carbon steel. i didn't know it.

i use the screw and nut part of an actual pivot pin puller and a modified socket. i don't know what they are made out of, i've only broken a few of them. i probably leaned on them a little to hard being they were very well used when they broke. i usually end up loosing them.


Vader, i thought this was mentioned in your original post you made back on 10-19-2003, but im not seeing it,or it may have been in one of the pictures.

if your using a socket, it needs to be modified a little bit or you'll put a side load on the bolt which may cause it to break. on the dash side of the column just below the pivot pin there is at least 1 step where the socket needs to be slightly ground down so it sits square and inline with the pin.
some columns have 2 steps.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

Yes, thank you for the info on the 304 stainless. I noticed that bolt just snapped, unlike the other bolts which bent under pressure.

I ended up buying the actual puller, found it at autozone. But i belive I have been making an ignorant mistake... I was not holding the screw or bolt while I was turning the nut. So I'm pretty sure I was just twisting the bolt off from trying to go into the pin too far. So I'll correct my mistake after I extract the old broken bolt out of the pin...

may even try a little heat!!

Thanks everyone!