Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
03-13-2014, 02:53 PM
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Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Let's say I wanted to have my Camaro as a daily driver, but at the same time not go severely bankrupt from fuel expenses, what would be good GM engines to look at with a budget of about 2000 USD? The more horsepower the better, of course, considering it's a sportscar and sportscars should have some performance, but at the same time mileage is very important.
03-13-2014, 04:56 PM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Used Low mile lsx engines are very efficient but making it work can cost a few $$
Get the best set of cyl heads you can for yours then work on tuning imo.
Get the best set of cyl heads you can for yours then work on tuning imo.
03-13-2014, 11:43 PM
#4
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Vortec 350 would be the easiest but the 4.8l or a 5.3l are ls1 based and would likely do better on the mpg. Otherwise turbocharge a v6 car.
03-14-2014, 06:43 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Thanks for your suggestions, guys! And Drac0nic, what kind of exact benefits can I expect to see after turbocharging my 2.8L v6? Might be a pretty good idea! And besides I don't think it ever really hurts to have a turbocharger, can always modify it to re-use for other engines later on.
03-14-2014, 07:11 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
In a truck the 4.8/5.3 get worse MPG than a 350. When stock my 5.7 in my 3.73 geared Express would pull 18-19 mpg on long trips running 70-80 mph.
03-14-2014, 08:55 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
3.8L Buick turbo ( grand national engine)
Probably the best 3rd gen every made was the 20th Anniversary model with the Grand National drivetrain. If you drive it like a normal person the v6 with over drive trans will yield over 23 MPG.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.d...vehicleID=5425 &browser=true&details=on
I am not sure how available this engine would be in Holland...but I would not waste on your time on your 2.8L it was not engineered to handle a turbo, you will be building a time bomb.
Probably the best 3rd gen every made was the 20th Anniversary model with the Grand National drivetrain. If you drive it like a normal person the v6 with over drive trans will yield over 23 MPG.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.d...vehicleID=5425 &browser=true&details=on
I am not sure how available this engine would be in Holland...but I would not waste on your time on your 2.8L it was not engineered to handle a turbo, you will be building a time bomb.
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03-14-2014, 09:03 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
you could do the same with a stock 5.7L
it's all about the state of tune and how you drive it !
there was a reason the OEMs only made 225 HP back when these cars were new..
they were trying to balance: performance, fuel economy, emissions, using the technology they had at the time.
that being said.. a modern LS engine is better because the computer is faster...
but the problem is the cars have gotten heavier, (more gadgets, more safety equipment. = heavier vehicle)
If you took a stock LS engine and ECM and installed in your 3rd gen with is already 500# or more lighter you will get a performance gain and better fuel economy..
A lighter car.. needs less power = less fuel
it's all about the state of tune and how you drive it !
there was a reason the OEMs only made 225 HP back when these cars were new..
they were trying to balance: performance, fuel economy, emissions, using the technology they had at the time.
that being said.. a modern LS engine is better because the computer is faster...
but the problem is the cars have gotten heavier, (more gadgets, more safety equipment. = heavier vehicle)
If you took a stock LS engine and ECM and installed in your 3rd gen with is already 500# or more lighter you will get a performance gain and better fuel economy..
A lighter car.. needs less power = less fuel
03-14-2014, 09:06 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Thanks for your suggestions, guys! And Drac0nic, what kind of exact benefits can I expect to see after turbocharging my 2.8L v6? Might be a pretty good idea! And besides I don't think it ever really hurts to have a turbocharger, can always modify it to re-use for other engines later on.
my 3.1 untuned and with only 8* of ignition advance made 270 rear wheel hp and 370 rear wheel ftlbs , i have 4:10 rear gears a 4k stall and can still knock down 30mpg on the highway.
thats more power then the L98 put out at the flywheel and much better mileage
now that its tuned it and its making more gets slightly less mpg but thats prolly cause im more inclined to have my foot in the throttle more
fasteddi is knocking down 27mpg in his turbo 3.1 and it isnt even tuned for mileage
if u can weld u can slap a turbo on a v6 for around 1,100 bucks , though if u want the most power out of it u will spend closer to 1600-1800
03-14-2014, 09:07 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
you could do the same with a stock 5.7L
it's all about the state of tune and how you drive it !
there was a reason the OEMs only made 225 HP back when these cars were new..
they were trying to balance: performance, fuel economy, emissions, using the technology they had at the time.
that being said.. a modern LS engine is better because the computer is faster...
but the problem is the cars have gotten heavier, (more gadgets, more safety equipment. = heavier vehicle)
If you took a stock LS engine and ECM and installed in your 3rd gen with is already 500# or more lighter you will get a performance gain and better fuel economy..
A lighter car.. needs less power = less fuel
it's all about the state of tune and how you drive it !
there was a reason the OEMs only made 225 HP back when these cars were new..
they were trying to balance: performance, fuel economy, emissions, using the technology they had at the time.
that being said.. a modern LS engine is better because the computer is faster...
but the problem is the cars have gotten heavier, (more gadgets, more safety equipment. = heavier vehicle)
If you took a stock LS engine and ECM and installed in your 3rd gen with is already 500# or more lighter you will get a performance gain and better fuel economy..
A lighter car.. needs less power = less fuel
That being said swaps are costly, especially in a 3rd gen. I had a 5.3 to swap into my Vette, but I decided to stay traditional small block and upgrade to the LS1 ECM and will be running the LS1 coils on it as well.
03-14-2014, 09:08 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
when tuned properly u can make a v6 car 12 second 1/4 miles and get around 25-30mpg in town and 30+ on the highway
my 3.1 untuned and with only 8* of ignition advance made 270 rear wheel hp and 370 rear wheel ftlbs , i have 4:10 rear gears a 4k stall and can still knock down 30mpg on the highway.
thats more power then the L98 put out at the flywheel and much better mileage
now that its tuned it and its making more gets slightly less mpg but thats prolly cause im more inclined to have my foot in the throttle more
fasteddi is knocking down 27mpg in his turbo 3.1 and it isnt even tuned for mileage
if u can weld u can slap a turbo on a v6 for around 1,100 bucks , though if u want the most power out of it u will spend closer to 1600-1800
my 3.1 untuned and with only 8* of ignition advance made 270 rear wheel hp and 370 rear wheel ftlbs , i have 4:10 rear gears a 4k stall and can still knock down 30mpg on the highway.
thats more power then the L98 put out at the flywheel and much better mileage
now that its tuned it and its making more gets slightly less mpg but thats prolly cause im more inclined to have my foot in the throttle more
fasteddi is knocking down 27mpg in his turbo 3.1 and it isnt even tuned for mileage
if u can weld u can slap a turbo on a v6 for around 1,100 bucks , though if u want the most power out of it u will spend closer to 1600-1800
03-14-2014, 09:15 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
yeah no denying it can be done with a small block, i think the cost is greater specially if he has to swap one into the car
soon as im done witht he twin turbo 353 in my iroc im actually going to build a single turbo 2.8 for mileage. prolly use a turbo around the gt25 size, with a custom cam, 5 speed , and a set of 3:23's and aim for around 40 mpg
could swap a t56 behind and run a 4:10 rear gear but i think for what my prohject is going to be its to much money to spend
to the op
one thing alot of ppl forget is taking weight out of the car is often free and saves gas and gives better performance so dont forget about that aspect
03-15-2014, 06:27 PM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
3.8L Buick turbo ( grand national engine)
Probably the best 3rd gen every made was the 20th Anniversary model with the Grand National drivetrain. If you drive it like a normal person the v6 with over drive trans will yield over 23 MPG.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.d...vehicleID=5425 &browser=true&details=on
I am not sure how available this engine would be in Holland...but I would not waste on your time on your 2.8L it was not engineered to handle a turbo, you will be building a time bomb.
Probably the best 3rd gen every made was the 20th Anniversary model with the Grand National drivetrain. If you drive it like a normal person the v6 with over drive trans will yield over 23 MPG.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.d...vehicleID=5425 &browser=true&details=on
I am not sure how available this engine would be in Holland...but I would not waste on your time on your 2.8L it was not engineered to handle a turbo, you will be building a time bomb.
The LS engine has a few design improvements, mainly the cylinder heads and intake manifold.
That being said swaps are costly, especially in a 3rd gen. I had a 5.3 to swap into my Vette, but I decided to stay traditional small block and upgrade to the LS1 ECM and will be running the LS1 coils on it as well.
That being said swaps are costly, especially in a 3rd gen. I had a 5.3 to swap into my Vette, but I decided to stay traditional small block and upgrade to the LS1 ECM and will be running the LS1 coils on it as well.
By the way, thanks for all of your replies, guys!
03-15-2014, 06:37 PM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
btw dont listen to FRMULA88
the 2.8/3.1/3.4 will take any amount of boost u can throw at it
these engines stock can handle 500hp and 500tq before some issues with the main bearings will arise
the 2.8/3.1/3.4 will take any amount of boost u can throw at it
these engines stock can handle 500hp and 500tq before some issues with the main bearings will arise
03-15-2014, 07:24 PM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Well if I am to choose the way of the turbo I might as well start off with my current 150 euro 2.8 V6, can always reuse the turbo equipment later on in case it doesn't yield the results desired. But don't turbo's mainly increase the power an engine is capable of producing rather than making it more fuel efficient? Still not a bad idea though, trying to squeeze as much out of the current V6 as possible would be a pretty great thing to begin with.
03-16-2014, 12:44 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Well if I am to choose the way of the turbo I might as well start off with my current 150 euro 2.8 V6, can always reuse the turbo equipment later on in case it doesn't yield the results desired. But don't turbo's mainly increase the power an engine is capable of producing rather than making it more fuel efficient? Still not a bad idea though, trying to squeeze as much out of the current V6 as possible would be a pretty great thing to begin with.
same goes with cruising
03-16-2014, 12:50 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Since most of the 2.8 v-6 cars Ive seen including the "89" RS came with 3.42 ratio (both auto and man.)and if yours is still stock you're barking up the wrong tree. You will never get the kind of gas milage you're looking for.
Granted there are different trains of thought on the matter.
Granted there are different trains of thought on the matter.
Last edited by Ron U.S.M.C.; 03-16-2014 at 12:56 AM.
03-16-2014, 01:02 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Since most of the 2.8 v-6 cars Ive seen including the "89" RS came with 3.42 ratio (both auto and man.)and if yours is still stock you're barking up the wrong tree. You will never get the kind of gas milage you're looking for.
Granted there are different trains of thought on the matter.
Granted there are different trains of thought on the matter.
fasteddi has 3:73,s and gets 25+ in town not even tuned for mileage
both cars are turbo cars
other ppl on these and other boards with turbo 2.8/3.1's/3.4 have goten the same and some even better milage then that
all 2.8 cars got 3:42 gears
3.1 manual cars got 3:23 and 3.1 autos got 3:42 if im not mistaken
03-16-2014, 01:18 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
I see said the blind man. Since I have very little first hand experience with turbos I shall bow out on the subject.
Aside of that I use my car as a DD but really could not tell you the exact price per gal. at the two stations I use.
Its a v-8 Camaro and I bought it to drive.
Aside of that I use my car as a DD but really could not tell you the exact price per gal. at the two stations I use.
Its a v-8 Camaro and I bought it to drive.
Last edited by Ron U.S.M.C.; 03-16-2014 at 05:44 AM.
03-16-2014, 07:59 AM
#20
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
What kind of driving will be most common for the vehicle? If it will be used mostly for highway driving, a well-tuned 535 BBC will get the same mileage as a 170" V-6. If the car is used in city driving with a high percentage of accelerating and decelerating, a smaller engine MAY provide better mileage, but a lighter vehicle will provide the best mileage.
03-16-2014, 08:25 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
move more air through a motor you will use more fuel period unless it can strictly on air.
03-16-2014, 08:27 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
What kind of driving will be most common for the vehicle? If it will be used mostly for highway driving, a well-tuned 535 BBC will get the same mileage as a 170" V-6. If the car is used in city driving with a high percentage of accelerating and decelerating, a smaller engine MAY provide better mileage, but a lighter vehicle will provide the best mileage.
PS: On the matter of big versus small engines, weren't there also big engines that would shut down half of the cylinders when not needing them for better mileage results? That might sound ideal, mileage when you need it and performance when you need it.
03-16-2014, 08:32 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Thanks for the education. Around here, two liters is called a "Pepsi" and we are still spoiled by relatively low fuel costs and long roads.
In your case, a solidly built smaller displacement and power adder may provide the best results. As previously stated, don't overlook the Buick 231 V-6. It has an inherently strong crank and case, and can crank out tremendous power with boost, yet still pull a 3500 pound car around getting 29 MPG.
In your case, a solidly built smaller displacement and power adder may provide the best results. As previously stated, don't overlook the Buick 231 V-6. It has an inherently strong crank and case, and can crank out tremendous power with boost, yet still pull a 3500 pound car around getting 29 MPG.
03-16-2014, 08:59 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Thanks for the education. Around here, two liters is called a "Pepsi" and we are still spoiled by relatively low fuel costs and long roads.
In your case, a solidly built smaller displacement and power adder may provide the best results. As previously stated, don't overlook the Buick 231 V-6. It has an inherently strong crank and case, and can crank out tremendous power with boost, yet still pull a 3500 pound car around getting 29 MPG.
In your case, a solidly built smaller displacement and power adder may provide the best results. As previously stated, don't overlook the Buick 231 V-6. It has an inherently strong crank and case, and can crank out tremendous power with boost, yet still pull a 3500 pound car around getting 29 MPG.
Last edited by Renier; 03-16-2014 at 10:40 AM.
03-16-2014, 01:54 PM
#25
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
"Pepsi" because that's they way we buy our beverages. A 535 IM is a "big cube" engine - also known as 8.8L. Obviously, even starting that would probably be worth ten miles with a 1.8L.
03-16-2014, 03:16 PM
#26
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
If you can find something that is in the 3L range and puts out decent power as a turbo engine, you'd probably be in decent shape for throwing it on your engine. Naturally you'd have to fabricate the plumbing but that comes with the territory. A decently sized intercooler would be cool too, don't be afraid of something like a box truck if you can fit it.
I would probably try to keep the top end in tact as possible (In the states, I'd say port the heads but I really DONT want to know the cost of sending some head/intake gaskets there.) If I was in the states I'd do a set of 42lb/hr injectors from a Lightning or possibly something modified, an ECU like a Megasquirt or a modded stock box, a Walbro 255 pump in the tank and go from there. Where you are I'd see what I could source, it may be easier to adapt a different set of injectors and fuel pump to your car. Keep in mind this is all the budget stuff so anything above and beyond that is great.
I would probably try to keep the top end in tact as possible (In the states, I'd say port the heads but I really DONT want to know the cost of sending some head/intake gaskets there.) If I was in the states I'd do a set of 42lb/hr injectors from a Lightning or possibly something modified, an ECU like a Megasquirt or a modded stock box, a Walbro 255 pump in the tank and go from there. Where you are I'd see what I could source, it may be easier to adapt a different set of injectors and fuel pump to your car. Keep in mind this is all the budget stuff so anything above and beyond that is great.
03-16-2014, 10:27 PM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
tuned properly it will get killer gas milage
bone stock they can support around 500 hp before u start breaking internal parts
ported stock heads
260 cam
57-61mm turbo with a t3 turbine
10ish psi will make well over 300hp and get 30+ on the highway
want to build one without excessive power but get really killer milage
clean up the heads a tad ,do a 252 grind cam and a full t3 turbo tune it for a 17.5 afr lean cruise and it will knock down over 38mpg but hp will suffer with around 240-250 hp instead of 325-350
03-17-2014, 10:18 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
ur arguing witht he wrong person , i have first hand experiance witht he 2.8/3.1/3.4 unlike everyone else who throws them away and knows nothing of its design or capabilities
tuned properly it will get killer gas milage
bone stock they can support around 500 hp before u start breaking internal parts
ported stock heads
260 cam
57-61mm turbo with a t3 turbine
10ish psi will make well over 300hp and get 30+ on the highway
want to build one without excessive power but get really killer milage
clean up the heads a tad ,do a 252 grind cam and a full t3 turbo tune it for a 17.5 afr lean cruise and it will knock down over 38mpg but hp will suffer with around 240-250 hp instead of 325-350
tuned properly it will get killer gas milage
bone stock they can support around 500 hp before u start breaking internal parts
ported stock heads
260 cam
57-61mm turbo with a t3 turbine
10ish psi will make well over 300hp and get 30+ on the highway
want to build one without excessive power but get really killer milage
clean up the heads a tad ,do a 252 grind cam and a full t3 turbo tune it for a 17.5 afr lean cruise and it will knock down over 38mpg but hp will suffer with around 240-250 hp instead of 325-350
03-17-2014, 10:30 AM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
those same engines were used in midget cars and racing boats running on alcohol turning 7K + rpms making 400+ hp without breaking
the only weak crank 2.8 is the early ones with the small journal crankshaft
my 3.1 spins to 8k rpms with a stock block/crank/rods/stock replacement pistons and has never broke , ive been pushing that thing for years
03-17-2014, 11:52 AM
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
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On top of that I am turbo charging my 300,000 mile motor. I wont run 500hp, id need a bigger turbo, lol. Take a look at all the turbo v6s in the v6 part of the forum. Great power and great fuel mileage all in one package.
Take a look, my thread is "another 2.8 turbo in progress". And there are more turbo v6s than you think. Its been done, and will continue to be done well.
For the OP, go ahead and turbo your 2.8, if you do, poke into the v6 section on the forum and you will find plenty of information on the subject. And dont listen to the nay sayers, ultimately the choice is up to you. Take it from the ones who have experience turbocharging the 2.8/3.1/3.4 motors; they have alot of potential.
Mine is my daily driver and only car, and my first car at that, I have had it for six years in july.
Last edited by willexoIX; 03-17-2014 at 12:40 PM.
03-17-2014, 12:41 PM
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/perform...mlCATID=2.html
Chevy 60-Degree V6
This innovative engine has beaten both the competition and the elements in off-road racing. It is a proven winner in sports car racing, and it has a promising future on America's oval tracks in the Midget classes. A Chevy V6/60-degree engine is the perfect power-plant for a high-tech street rod or an ultralight autocross machine. GM Performance Parts offers the basic building blocks for a high-performance V6/60-degree, including light alloy engine cases, high-compression pistons, and high-volume pumps.
That is all well and good but a 3rd gen is too heavy, especially if kept in "street" trim.
for a small car weighing 1800# or less . (like a midget sprint car) it makes sense.
Buick V6
The Buick V6 started a revolution in motorsports. The solid success of the Buick V6 proved that an engine didn't need eight cylinders to be a winner. This compact but powerful engine has flexed its muscles in championship drag racing, road racing, Indy cars, and oval track competition. Forward-thinking street rodders and performance enthusiasts have recognized the Buick V6 as a responsive and fuel-efficient powerplant. The increasing popularity of V6 engines in all types of motor racing ensures that the Buick V6 will have a permanent place in the American performance scene. GM Performance Parts offers a full array of heavy-duty components for the Buick V6. From Stage II blocks and cylinder heads to valve covers and sophisticated electronic ignition, GM Performance Parts has the right stuff for the engine that launched a revolution.
Chevy 60-Degree V6
This innovative engine has beaten both the competition and the elements in off-road racing. It is a proven winner in sports car racing, and it has a promising future on America's oval tracks in the Midget classes. A Chevy V6/60-degree engine is the perfect power-plant for a high-tech street rod or an ultralight autocross machine. GM Performance Parts offers the basic building blocks for a high-performance V6/60-degree, including light alloy engine cases, high-compression pistons, and high-volume pumps.
That is all well and good but a 3rd gen is too heavy, especially if kept in "street" trim.
for a small car weighing 1800# or less . (like a midget sprint car) it makes sense.
Buick V6
The Buick V6 started a revolution in motorsports. The solid success of the Buick V6 proved that an engine didn't need eight cylinders to be a winner. This compact but powerful engine has flexed its muscles in championship drag racing, road racing, Indy cars, and oval track competition. Forward-thinking street rodders and performance enthusiasts have recognized the Buick V6 as a responsive and fuel-efficient powerplant. The increasing popularity of V6 engines in all types of motor racing ensures that the Buick V6 will have a permanent place in the American performance scene. GM Performance Parts offers a full array of heavy-duty components for the Buick V6. From Stage II blocks and cylinder heads to valve covers and sophisticated electronic ignition, GM Performance Parts has the right stuff for the engine that launched a revolution.
03-17-2014, 12:44 PM
#32
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/perform...mlCATID=2.html
Chevy 60-Degree V6
This innovative engine has beaten both the competition and the elements in off-road racing. It is a proven winner in sports car racing, and it has a promising future on America's oval tracks in the Midget classes. A Chevy V6/60-degree engine is the perfect power-plant for a high-tech street rod or an ultralight autocross machine. GM Performance Parts offers the basic building blocks for a high-performance V6/60-degree, including light alloy engine cases, high-compression pistons, and high-volume pumps.
That is all well and good but a 3rd gen is too heavy, especially if kept in "street" trim.
for a small car weighing 1800# or less . (like a midget sprint car) it makes sense.
Buick V6
The Buick V6 started a revolution in motorsports. The solid success of the Buick V6 proved that an engine didn't need eight cylinders to be a winner. This compact but powerful engine has flexed its muscles in championship drag racing, road racing, Indy cars, and oval track competition. Forward-thinking street rodders and performance enthusiasts have recognized the Buick V6 as a responsive and fuel-efficient powerplant. The increasing popularity of V6 engines in all types of motor racing ensures that the Buick V6 will have a permanent place in the American performance scene. GM Performance Parts offers a full array of heavy-duty components for the Buick V6. From Stage II blocks and cylinder heads to valve covers and sophisticated electronic ignition, GM Performance Parts has the right stuff for the engine that launched a revolution.
Chevy 60-Degree V6
This innovative engine has beaten both the competition and the elements in off-road racing. It is a proven winner in sports car racing, and it has a promising future on America's oval tracks in the Midget classes. A Chevy V6/60-degree engine is the perfect power-plant for a high-tech street rod or an ultralight autocross machine. GM Performance Parts offers the basic building blocks for a high-performance V6/60-degree, including light alloy engine cases, high-compression pistons, and high-volume pumps.
That is all well and good but a 3rd gen is too heavy, especially if kept in "street" trim.
for a small car weighing 1800# or less . (like a midget sprint car) it makes sense.
Buick V6
The Buick V6 started a revolution in motorsports. The solid success of the Buick V6 proved that an engine didn't need eight cylinders to be a winner. This compact but powerful engine has flexed its muscles in championship drag racing, road racing, Indy cars, and oval track competition. Forward-thinking street rodders and performance enthusiasts have recognized the Buick V6 as a responsive and fuel-efficient powerplant. The increasing popularity of V6 engines in all types of motor racing ensures that the Buick V6 will have a permanent place in the American performance scene. GM Performance Parts offers a full array of heavy-duty components for the Buick V6. From Stage II blocks and cylinder heads to valve covers and sophisticated electronic ignition, GM Performance Parts has the right stuff for the engine that launched a revolution.
umm my car is 3455#'s and can cut 1.5/1.6 60fts still havent broken anything
the turbo 60* motor is perfect for a heavy car its makes tons of tq
my first dyno with a screwed up tune made 270whp and 378wheel ftlbs
its now making just shy of 400whp and over 532ftlbs at the rear tires
03-17-2014, 01:31 PM
#33
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
umm my car is 3455#'s and can cut 1.5/1.6 60fts still havent broken anything "YET"
the turbo 60* motor is perfect for a heavy car its makes tons of tq
my first dyno with a screwed up tune made 270whp and 378wheel ftlbs
its now making just shy of 400whp and over 532ftlbs at the rear tires
the turbo 60* motor is perfect for a heavy car its makes tons of tq
my first dyno with a screwed up tune made 270whp and 378wheel ftlbs
its now making just shy of 400whp and over 532ftlbs at the rear tires
besides, I thought you are/were building a 1000hp SBC "project cheap thrills"?
03-17-2014, 01:35 PM
#34
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
He has been instrumental to the Megasquirt conversion on my 2.8; which freed up a bunch of power. Next weekend Ill be starting the turbo install, of which I will have the help of several members who have previously/currently turbocharged their v6s.
I'll be honest, the plans I have for a 3.4/3500 single turbo hybrid are going to make insane power.
Hey Dave, isnt someone already running mid 9s on a full 3500 swap with a turbo?
Last edited by willexoIX; 03-17-2014 at 01:39 PM.
03-17-2014, 01:42 PM
#35
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/perform...mlCATID=2.html
Chevy 60-Degree V6
This innovative engine has beaten both the competition and the elements in off-road racing. It is a proven winner in sports car racing, and it has a promising future on America's oval tracks in the Midget classes. A Chevy V6/60-degree engine is the perfect power-plant for a high-tech street rod or an ultralight autocross machine. GM Performance Parts offers the basic building blocks for a high-performance V6/60-degree, including light alloy engine cases, high-compression pistons, and high-volume pumps.
That is all well and good but a 3rd gen is too heavy, especially if kept in "street" trim.
for a small car weighing 1800# or less . (like a midget sprint car) it makes sense.
Buick V6
The Buick V6 started a revolution in motorsports. The solid success of the Buick V6 proved that an engine didn't need eight cylinders to be a winner. This compact but powerful engine has flexed its muscles in championship drag racing, road racing, Indy cars, and oval track competition. Forward-thinking street rodders and performance enthusiasts have recognized the Buick V6 as a responsive and fuel-efficient powerplant. The increasing popularity of V6 engines in all types of motor racing ensures that the Buick V6 will have a permanent place in the American performance scene. GM Performance Parts offers a full array of heavy-duty components for the Buick V6. From Stage II blocks and cylinder heads to valve covers and sophisticated electronic ignition, GM Performance Parts has the right stuff for the engine that launched a revolution.
Chevy 60-Degree V6
This innovative engine has beaten both the competition and the elements in off-road racing. It is a proven winner in sports car racing, and it has a promising future on America's oval tracks in the Midget classes. A Chevy V6/60-degree engine is the perfect power-plant for a high-tech street rod or an ultralight autocross machine. GM Performance Parts offers the basic building blocks for a high-performance V6/60-degree, including light alloy engine cases, high-compression pistons, and high-volume pumps.
That is all well and good but a 3rd gen is too heavy, especially if kept in "street" trim.
for a small car weighing 1800# or less . (like a midget sprint car) it makes sense.
Buick V6
The Buick V6 started a revolution in motorsports. The solid success of the Buick V6 proved that an engine didn't need eight cylinders to be a winner. This compact but powerful engine has flexed its muscles in championship drag racing, road racing, Indy cars, and oval track competition. Forward-thinking street rodders and performance enthusiasts have recognized the Buick V6 as a responsive and fuel-efficient powerplant. The increasing popularity of V6 engines in all types of motor racing ensures that the Buick V6 will have a permanent place in the American performance scene. GM Performance Parts offers a full array of heavy-duty components for the Buick V6. From Stage II blocks and cylinder heads to valve covers and sophisticated electronic ignition, GM Performance Parts has the right stuff for the engine that launched a revolution.
Back to the OPs topic.
03-17-2014, 03:20 PM
#36
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Thread Starter
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Thanks everyone for all of the information! But what's Megasquirt? And won't turbocharging my 2.8 V6 completely change the handling for the worse? And what are the limits of a stock Third Gen Camaro? I'm all for it though, sounds like a great idea. And what about the car at low RPM's, won't it kind of be a let down performance-wise? Should be more fuel-efficient than without the turbo that way though, right?
03-17-2014, 03:31 PM
#37
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Thanks everyone for all of the information! But what's Megasquirt? And won't turbocharging my 2.8 V6 completely change the handling for the worse? And what are the limits of a stock Third Gen Camaro? I'm all for it though, sounds like a great idea. And what about the car at low RPM's, won't it kind of be a let down performance-wise? Should be more fuel-efficient than without the turbo that way though, right?
The reason the turbo is a good option, is that if you dont put your foot into it, then it more or less runs like stock. Yes in the lower rpms it will feel like you dont have a turbo, but once it spools and you make boost all the power comes on.
I prefer a turbocharger over a supercharger especially for a smaller displacement motor because the SC is pretty much on all the time and it is parasitic, unlike the turbo. Its why I said if you dont put your foot in it, it acts like stock.
And with the megasquirt, you can tune for better gas mileage or more power, another bonus with the MS is you can run dual tunes. What this means is you can switch between two different tunes, with the flick of a switch. IE- fuel mileage tune and power tune.
All in all, for my Megasquirt ECM swap and turbo setup im still running less than $2000 total cost.
Last edited by willexoIX; 03-17-2014 at 03:52 PM.
03-17-2014, 03:31 PM
#38
Supreme Member
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
You may not like what GM wrote about it, I am just sharing the info.
The people I know running turbo V6s use Buicks.. why is that?!
03-17-2014, 03:45 PM
#39
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Besides, swapping a 90° v6, you have to either get a trans adaptor or 90° v6 trans, and there is much more to swap it. He already has a motor that has been successfully turbocharged many times. Also I never said anything about not liking what gm wrote.
Besides, there is way more proof than just "what people write on forums". Do some research. Poke into the V6 section and see how fast these guys are going with evidence.
And for the record, I have never had problems with mine, and I beat on it for 6 years. If you take care of it, it will take care of you. The simple truth of owning a vehicle. If the OP has a 2.8 from after 86, he shouldnt have any problems if its MPFI. And properly maintained.
As for the people you know running buick v6s, why is that you ask? Its called personal preference, and you prefer buick, I prefer Chevy, why? Because its what I already have.
Besides, I dont think the OP is going for as much power as he can get, its a daily driver. As is mine and i'm not going all out either.
Alright, I'm done. OP the thread is all yours, ill poke in to see what you decide.
Last edited by willexoIX; 03-17-2014 at 03:54 PM.
03-17-2014, 04:17 PM
#40
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Thread Starter
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Megasquirt is a standalone or piggyback engine management system. I yanked my stock ECM out and went with it, its pretty neat. You can plug a laptop in and tune in realtime, monitor whats going on, or datalog. It has alot of options and possibilities.
The reason the turbo is a good option, is that if you dont put your foot into it, then it more or less runs like stock. Yes in the lower rpms it will feel like you dont have a turbo, but once it spools and you make boost all the power comes on.
I prefer a turbocharger over a supercharger especially for a smaller displacement motor because the SC is pretty much on all the time and it is parasitic, unlike the turbo. Its why I said if you dont put your foot in it, it acts like stock.
And with the megasquirt, you can tune for better gas mileage or more power, another bonus with the MS is you can run dual tunes. What this means is you can switch between two different tunes, with the flick of a switch. IE- fuel mileage tune and power tune.
All in all, for my Megasquirt ECM swap and turbo setup im still running less than $2000 total cost.
The reason the turbo is a good option, is that if you dont put your foot into it, then it more or less runs like stock. Yes in the lower rpms it will feel like you dont have a turbo, but once it spools and you make boost all the power comes on.
I prefer a turbocharger over a supercharger especially for a smaller displacement motor because the SC is pretty much on all the time and it is parasitic, unlike the turbo. Its why I said if you dont put your foot in it, it acts like stock.
And with the megasquirt, you can tune for better gas mileage or more power, another bonus with the MS is you can run dual tunes. What this means is you can switch between two different tunes, with the flick of a switch. IE- fuel mileage tune and power tune.
All in all, for my Megasquirt ECM swap and turbo setup im still running less than $2000 total cost.
03-17-2014, 04:32 PM
#41
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Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
I have alot of experience with the 60*V6.
After the 2.8 blew up, I built a cammed 3.1 with TBI on top, then later switched that out for a cammed 3.4 with 3500 heads on it and DIS. Put a Camaro 4L60E in my S15 4x4 Jimmy after rebuilding it swapping out the output shaft and ran it all with an OBDI TBI PCM from a 95 Astro Van. My grandmother had a 95 Oldsmobile Achieva 3100 that ran strong until it spun a rod bearing and I put a newer 3400 in the 3100s place because at that time it was cheaper to get the newer, lower mileage used 3400 than it was a 3100. She kept it until the car litterally fell apart around the newer engine. She traded that at over 200K for a 2003 Alero with a 3400 that she still owns. I recently had to change the fuel pressure regulator and lower intake gaskets at about 100K, but that is not a fault of the engine. Been running mobil 5w30 in that car for years and it is internally spotless.
That being said a healthy port fuel injected small block with a 4L60E behind it would do worlds for driveability and all around performance. I really like the LT1s and know that with the right combination of parts they can make 500 HP out of 355 cubic inches, naturally aspirated and still get mpg in the mid to upper 20s on the highway at sane speeds.
After the 2.8 blew up, I built a cammed 3.1 with TBI on top, then later switched that out for a cammed 3.4 with 3500 heads on it and DIS. Put a Camaro 4L60E in my S15 4x4 Jimmy after rebuilding it swapping out the output shaft and ran it all with an OBDI TBI PCM from a 95 Astro Van. My grandmother had a 95 Oldsmobile Achieva 3100 that ran strong until it spun a rod bearing and I put a newer 3400 in the 3100s place because at that time it was cheaper to get the newer, lower mileage used 3400 than it was a 3100. She kept it until the car litterally fell apart around the newer engine. She traded that at over 200K for a 2003 Alero with a 3400 that she still owns. I recently had to change the fuel pressure regulator and lower intake gaskets at about 100K, but that is not a fault of the engine. Been running mobil 5w30 in that car for years and it is internally spotless.
That being said a healthy port fuel injected small block with a 4L60E behind it would do worlds for driveability and all around performance. I really like the LT1s and know that with the right combination of parts they can make 500 HP out of 355 cubic inches, naturally aspirated and still get mpg in the mid to upper 20s on the highway at sane speeds.
Last edited by Fast355; 03-17-2014 at 04:36 PM.
03-17-2014, 04:38 PM
#42
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Thanks for the information once again! And it sounds pretty damn sweet, especially for under $2000 total cost, and for the fact that I'll always have reusable parts for later on. By the way, why do you prefer a single turbo set up over a twin turbo set up? And what are the effects of turbocharging on the handling of the vehicle?
If you do go turbo, you most likely would have to change ECMs, you have a few options, I'm only versed on the megasquirt cause thats what I went with. But you have options to run a couple different ECMs from other thirdgens. If you poke into the ECM section of this forum you can see some of those options. I think Mark(fasteddi) went with tuning a 7730 ECM IIRC. Dave(project89) went with megasquirt on 1 or 2 of his thirdgens i think.
As far as changing the handling, the only thing is really a bit more weight in the front end from the added equipment. Also youll probably suffer from "lead foot" disease, which causes excessive loss of rubber on the rear tires, lmao
Other than that I think it wont really make too much of a difference in handling unless someone else would like to chime in.
03-17-2014, 06:44 PM
#43
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
for what u intend to do u may add 75 pounds to the front of the car its still lighter in the front then if the car had a v8 handiling will remain unchanged
if ur really worried about it a wonderbar and some hollow 1le sway bars will tighten up the car alot . i ran them on my car with bilstien struts in the front
properly sized turbo will spool up at a low rpm with enough throttle opening so the car wont feel gutless, since u would be concerend more about milage then power u would use a smaller turbo then what the rest of us are so it would spool even faster
u can play with the turbo sizing to balance the power and fuel economy
and that gm performance parts artical was wrote long before anyone was turbocharging these things
if ur really worried about it a wonderbar and some hollow 1le sway bars will tighten up the car alot . i ran them on my car with bilstien struts in the front
properly sized turbo will spool up at a low rpm with enough throttle opening so the car wont feel gutless, since u would be concerend more about milage then power u would use a smaller turbo then what the rest of us are so it would spool even faster
u can play with the turbo sizing to balance the power and fuel economy
and that gm performance parts artical was wrote long before anyone was turbocharging these things
03-17-2014, 06:46 PM
#44
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
i am im not against the sbc in any way shape or form.
the op already has a v6 car and for minimal investment for what he already has the turbo on the v6 makes sence.
if he already had a v8 in the car i wouldnt be telling him to swap it for a v6
03-17-2014, 07:06 PM
#45
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
installing a megasquirt without turboing is another option as it will allow u to tune the engine u currently have for better milage and power
there are overseas dealers so shipping wouldnt be exspensive , a whole megasquirt 1 package would run u around 311$'s , the better megasquirt 2 package is about 100 bucks more then that
add in a wideband o2 for 130$ from 14point7.com and u have everything u need to get the most out of what u have now for minimal investment , and it canbe swaped to another engine down the road
the factory tune on the 2.8 and the 3.1 is actually pretty rich from the factory
there are overseas dealers so shipping wouldnt be exspensive , a whole megasquirt 1 package would run u around 311$'s , the better megasquirt 2 package is about 100 bucks more then that
add in a wideband o2 for 130$ from 14point7.com and u have everything u need to get the most out of what u have now for minimal investment , and it canbe swaped to another engine down the road
the factory tune on the 2.8 and the 3.1 is actually pretty rich from the factory
03-20-2014, 01:24 PM
#46
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Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Great, thanks for all of the additional information, guys! Megasquirt seems pretty difficult but definitely worth getting into. Also, on the single versus twin turbo matter and the size, won't it be the most beneficial and best for the reuse value to use two small turbo's meaning they do spool quickly but are still two? My knowledge on turbo's is limited and I also don't know what's up with compression and the space within the combustion chamber and if it needs to be adjusted for the fuel-air mixture to ignite properly.
03-20-2014, 03:44 PM
#47
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Great, thanks for all of the additional information, guys! Megasquirt seems pretty difficult but definitely worth getting into. Also, on the single versus twin turbo matter and the size, won't it be the most beneficial and best for the reuse value to use two small turbo's meaning they do spool quickly but are still two? My knowledge on turbo's is limited and I also don't know what's up with compression and the space within the combustion chamber and if it needs to be adjusted for the fuel-air mixture to ignite properly.
A T3 will normally spool pretty quick, hence why they use the smaller T3 exhaust housing on a T3/T4 hybrid. Normally you find which turbo will compliment your motor.
More on the twin turbo information would have to come from someone else more versed in the subject, as I am still learning about a single turbo, lol.
Im currently starting with a T3 turbo off of a Mercedes 300D diesel, I want to learn throughout the process so I am starting small. Also because its my first time turboing a car, and its my daily driver, you can imagine Im not trying to break anything, lol.
Research is your best friend, but we are here to answer some questions for you as well. I would suggest taking a look at the power adder section along with the v6 section, at the turbo threads; there is a ton of information on this forum.
The Megasquirt seems daunting, and I was nervous to install it but it really was a breeze for me; your experience may or may not be similar depending on the learning curve for you.
Last edited by willexoIX; 03-20-2014 at 03:49 PM.
03-20-2014, 04:02 PM
#48
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Car: 89 RS 89 iroc 87 firebird
Engine: 3.1 Turbo/ 355 twin turbo
Transmission: a4 w/ 4500 stall/ a4 / t5
Axle/Gears: strange s60 /w 3:42's
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
a properly sized single turbo is just as good as 2 smaller properly sized twin turbos
they will both spool up the same and make the same power
twin turbos is more for bragging rights then anything, with twin turbs u also have more cost
2x turbos,2x wastegates 2x plumbing oil lines etc
they will both spool up the same and make the same power
twin turbos is more for bragging rights then anything, with twin turbs u also have more cost
2x turbos,2x wastegates 2x plumbing oil lines etc
03-20-2014, 05:45 PM
#49
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Thread Starter
Re: Affordable but Fuel Efficient GM Engines
Alright, thanks again, guys! Guess it's just for bragging rights then, should forget about twin turbo's for my long term plans, and start out with megasquirting once I get some cash available.
03-21-2014, 08:45 AM
#50
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Car: 89 Camaro RS running MS2X
Engine: .48/.60AR T3/T4 2.8L V6
Transmission: Rebuilt 700R4 2500 stall
Axle/Gears: Next to break...
Thats a good start. Just make sure you have access to a laptop with an rs232(serial) port, if not you would have to pick up a serial to usb converter to use the laptop with it. Unless you get one of the newer Megasquirt systems with usb built in.