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My supervisers son is interested in buying a 03-04 cobra... He wants to be able to smoke his dad (87 Buick GN). Im trying to talk him into buying an 89TTA instead. Ive been doing some research on them, and i am starting to lust for one myself.
Honestly, how fast are these things bone stock??? Why is it so much faster than a bone stock GN with the same motor?
I already have a rivalry with his dad. We have identical ET's. I hope im not gonna get smoked by his kid!
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__________________ 91 Z28..
-best on nitrous 11.90@115 mph
-best on motor 13.32@102 mph
-140,000 miles (driven hard)
-stock, untouched L98 (internal)
-stock heads and intake
-best 60' 1.71 on MT Streets and stock converter my car (with videos)
I've owned this car since 1997
the other ride...
03 Silverado SS
-Black
-14.32@96 mph
Last edited by 2QUIK4U; 07-01-2006 at 02:48 AM.
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Anywhere from 12.9 to the 14's. If you know how to drive them, easy low 13's. If you got a real good one and know how to drive them, you can dip into the 12's as a couple have been there bone stock. But that was back in 89 and 90 when they were new.
State of tune now would depend on how it ran. Have to remember they are 17 years old now. At the very least, new plugs, filters, and valve springs would need to be replaced.
Anywhere from 12.9 to the 14's. If you know how to drive them, easy low 13's. If you got a real good one and know how to drive them, you can dip into the 12's as a couple have been there bone stock. But that was back in 89 and 90 when they were new.
State of tune now would depend on how it ran. Have to remember they are 17 years old now. At the very least, new plugs, filters, and valve springs would need to be replaced.
Huh never knew they were that fast, learn somthing knew everday. I figured high 13's but low 13's, thats very impressive.
I know they are rated at 250HP, but i bet its closer to the 300 range.. I want one real bad now. I don't really care for the GTA dash much. I like the look of my Z28's better.
__________________ 91 Z28..
-best on nitrous 11.90@115 mph
-best on motor 13.32@102 mph
-140,000 miles (driven hard)
-stock, untouched L98 (internal)
-stock heads and intake
-best 60' 1.71 on MT Streets and stock converter my car (with videos)
I've owned this car since 1997
the other ride...
03 Silverado SS
-Black
-14.32@96 mph
I think you guys are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overating the TTA's.
The ones I ever see (remember he said the stock ones) are running high 13's low 14's.
With decent drivers.
Let's not get carried away with the 'low 12's' stuff. C'mon.
Maybe on slicks, with the interior gutted, with a rolling start, down a dragstrip built on an incline..........................you know what I'm getting at.
I think you guys are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overating the TTA's.
The ones I ever see (remember he said the stock ones) are running high 13's low 14's.
With decent drivers.
Let's not get carried away with the 'low 12's' stuff. C'mon.
Maybe on slicks, with the interior gutted, with a rolling start, down a dragstrip built on an incline..........................you know what I'm getting at.
Stock, easy low 13's with a good driver. Not very hard to do. And that is very bone stock. If they are running 14's with a decent driver, either they aren't that good or they are running up 5000 ft.
Its incredibly easy to make them run low 12's but nobody ever said low 12's bone stock. Mine ran 12.1@111 with about $500 and that included Nittos. And still on pump gas!
There really aren't that many stock TTA's around. Most have at least a chip because the stock chip is way too aggressive for today's gas. I couldn't even run the stock boost in mine with the crap gas of today.
yeah, they run low 13's and really make 301 hp stock. They low balled the hp at 250 for warranty issues. The TTA makes more HP then the GN for afew reasons but it had better heads. The buick heads wouldn't clear the strut towers but Pontiac used there own heads with made more power and cleared the towers.
I think you guys are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overating the TTA's.
The ones I ever see (remember he said the stock ones) are running high 13's low 14's.
With decent drivers.
Let's not get carried away with the 'low 12's' stuff. C'mon.
Maybe on slicks, with the interior gutted, with a rolling start, down a dragstrip built on an incline..........................you know what I'm getting at.
I can go call up a friend of mine and he can run all 3 of his and they'll all run similar times(mid-low 13's), hell even the one with 2.77 gears(was in the Silver State races, hence the 2.77's) ran 13.5's with **** gears.
You also have to take into account your altitude...where are you? The tracks near me and Rob are at sea level.
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, wideband O2, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
I can go call up a friend of mine and he can run all 3 of his and they'll all run similar times(mid-low 13's), hell even the one with 2.77 gears(was in the Silver State races, hence the 2.77's) ran 13.5's with **** gears.
You also have to take into account your altitude...where are you? The tracks near me and Rob are at sea level.
The difference between sea level and a mile above sea level can be less than half a second with a turbo car. And that's a whole mile. Anything else and you guys are over exaggerating results.
The difference between sea level and a mile above sea level can be less than half a second with a turbo car. And that's a whole mile. Anything else and you guys are over exaggerating results.
I know turbo cars don't feel the higher altitudes as much as N/A cars but still, it's there.
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, wideband O2, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
yeah, they run low 13's and really make 301 hp stock. They low balled the hp at 250 for warranty issues. The TTA makes more HP then the GN for afew reasons but it had better heads. The buick heads wouldn't clear the strut towers but Pontiac used there own heads with made more power and cleared the towers.
Heads were used not for strut tower clearance as there is plenty of clearance with the stock GN heads. It was so they didn't have redesign the AC. The original GN heads wouldn't allow that and the newer FWD heads fit the bill. They also happen to flow a little better than the GN heads
[quote=Manic Z]I think you guys are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overating the TTA's.
The ones I ever see (remember he said the stock ones) are running high 13's low 14's.
With decent drivers.
QUOTE]
here's a good link 1989 Turbo Trans Am Feature
I don't think the TTA is over rated. I had to do all the mod in my sig to my L98 to run low 13's like a stock TTA
__________________
408 TPI..Brodix 200IK heads, Comp 280 XFI Cam,Custom CAI,mod. mass air flow sen.,TB bypass, Holley 52mm TB,Lingenfelter Super Ram,Edelbrock High-Flo baseplate,30lb. Ford injectors,TPIS AFPR, Holley 255 fuel pump,Comp 1:6RR, SLP 1 3/4" headers,SLP Y pipe,Gale Banks 3"cat back exaust,1LE AC/Smog delete pullies,MSD 8.5mm wires, MSD blaster coil,March underdrive pullies, 160* thermo, Prominator Pro chip(custom bin),3000 stall speed,shift kit, LS1 Aluminum DS,3:73 gears, SSM sub frames,Hotchkis STB,Hotchkis 1" drop springs,UMI LCARBs,BF Drag Radials, Cowl induction hood, fiberglass repro. areo wing,.
Last edited by TPI-Formula350-; 07-03-2006 at 03:14 PM.
Very easy to screw up how the TTA runs. Say you have a run with a 2.0 short time and 1.88 short time. Both easily achieveable in a TTA with stock tires. Only problem is, the 2.0 short time came from a at idle launch. The 1.88 short time came building boost on the line. I can tell you by the 1/8 mile, the 1.88 launch will be .5 second ahead of the 2.0 launch.
There is a big difference in ET when you can hook/launch under boost. I used to play with mine in all kinds of launches and know the results.
Very easy to screw up how the TTA runs. Say you have a run with a 2.0 short time and 1.88 short time. Both easily achieveable in a TTA with stock tires. Only problem is, the 2.0 short time came from a at idle launch. The 1.88 short time came building boost on the line. I can tell you by the 1/8 mile, the 1.88 launch will be .5 second ahead of the 2.0 launch.
There is a big difference in ET when you can hook/launch under boost. I used to play with mine in all kinds of launches and know the results.
Just some FYI
But Rob all these guys have so much experience with these cars, surely they knew that.
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, wideband O2, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
But Rob all these guys have so much experience with these cars, surely they knew that.
Yep, everybody seems to know how easy it is to drive one and know they are pretty slow if/when they see it.
I know what they run stock and slightly modified. To me, it was easy driving mine. Maybe it was from having a GN or a 84 Z28 and 96 WS6. The TTA was the easiest of any car to launch that I've ever owned. I have yet to get anywhere near the 1.61 short time with just drag radials and stock suspension that the TTA would do.
Yep. Even with a bad driver in the Mustang and a good driver in the TTA. Get a good driver in the Mustang and it'll run as good as 12.5 bone stock. No TTA would do that bone stock.
But it should with 100HP more
But once you start modding, I'd take the TTA. The glass jaw rear in the Cobra can't take the strip too well. It would be interesting to see a mod for mod/dollar for dollar comparison though. That would be a good race!
Terminator mustangs are insane, they finally got the cobras right with those, TTAs were the equivilant in their day, but a good driver in one of those cobras will smoke alot of what is out there even now in bone stock condition. A modded TTA could probobly give it a run for its money however.
got a buddy with just exhuast, pully, and a tune making 480 to the ground with his cobra. Know another guy with a Kenny bell on it making 620 to the wheels.
Justin
__________________ 1991 Camaro Z28
LS1 | T56 | LME 370 | Dart CNC Heads | Fast 92 | FTI CAM | Fab 9 inch | 4.56 |
I'd tyake the TTA over the cobra in a sec. Whats the Cobra .2 faster and thats comparing a Supercharged V8 to a turbo V6
cobra is abit more car than the TTA. its a good bit quicker, if you look at both cars well driven, the cobra is atleast .4 seconds faster and traps around 5 mph more best case scenario from what i been seeing... both are sick cars but the cobra is just an animal...mod for mod its one of the top cars out there. everything on that car can handle power...with the IRS being weakest link but still capable of surviving lots of power, just not a whole lot of sticky tire strip launches.
Quote:
But Rob all these guys have so much experience with these cars, surely they knew that
true, alot of guys dont know about these cars... but anyone who knows anything about turbo cars should know about brake boosting and how much difference that makes... however with the insane torque that TTA makes and the small converter, you wont be making all that much boost... the tires should start spinning before great boost is made.. i have heard this from another TTA member on this board in another thread. but still, the minor boost that is made is enough to see great improvements in ET
yeah you can... just gotta stab the gas pedal on and off at around whatever rpm you want. that will build some booost. or else get a two step rev limiter and set the first rev limiter to your launch rpm and just stomp on the gas. it will bang off the limiter constantly and boost will be built up.
from a roll, you just hit brake and gas at the same time
Stock drag test attached, pair of 13.6s. That's faster than most magazine runs for LS1 Fbodies... :
I actually think there was a round 3 in that test too, or at least there was another head to head test in another mag.
I've seen stock TTA's run faster than that..is EVERY ONE a low 13 second car? No, they're turbo cars..they're like women. Everything could be fine one minute and BAM! The next minute it doesn't do what you want it to and before you know it you're sleeping in the garage...
Ughh, off topic..
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, wideband O2, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
trap speeds of 101-102 isnt really enough to go low low 13's on street tires and stock converter. but i guess there are some that have hit higher than that, so i dont doubt a low 13 is possible. it took full bolt ons for my buddies L98 89 formy to run 13.6's at 100-101.
trap speeds of 101-102 isnt really enough to go low low 13's on street tires and stock converter. but i guess there are some that have hit higher than that, so i dont doubt a low 13 is possible. it took full bolt ons for my buddies L98 89 formy to run 13.6's at 100-101.
Can't really go by that. The GN/TTA are torque monsters, not high HP. Just like a TPI, you don't rev it past 5000rpm.
Even when I maxxed out all the stock stuff, I still only ran 12.1@111. And here's how much a good launch does for a TTA. The 12.1 run was done on Nittos with a 1.69 short time. With my Firestone Firehawks, it was 12.6@111 on a 1.85 short. Nothing other than tires was changed.
trap speeds of 101-102 isnt really enough to go low low 13's on street tires and stock converter. but i guess there are some that have hit higher than that, so i dont doubt a low 13 is possible. it took full bolt ons for my buddies L98 89 formy to run 13.6's at 100-101.
No offense dude but you talk out your *** so much. It's all about the launch on those cars. If you can launch with boost and hook and keep the converter locked you can do it all day long.
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, wideband O2, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
Even when I maxxed out all the stock stuff, I still only ran 12.1@111. And here's how much a good launch does for a TTA. The 12.1 run was done on Nittos with a 1.69 short time. With my Firestone Firehawks, it was 12.6@111 on a 1.85 short. Nothing other than tires was changed.
yeah torque monsters need good tires... 1.85 is great 60 on stock converter and street tires. my one buddy does 1.90-1.93 on some crappy street tires in his 3.70 geared full bolt on L98
you gained alot of time on those drag radials. thats what TPI and LC2 cars need.
i'm just saying that stock street tired, stock stalled TPI and LC2 cars wont beable to launch at 100% which is needed to run those great ET's for the trap speed
Quote:
No offense dude but you talk out your *** so much. It's all about the launch on those cars. If you can launch with boost and hook and keep the converter locked you can do it all day long.
dont worry, i'm not gonna take offense to that. i have no reason. i dont talk out my *** as you say. i have probly over 20 passes on my L98 Irocz and most of those runs were with street tires. i know that street tires on stock 16x8 wheels dont hook good. trust me. 1.88 was best i could get and i have 2800 stall, and our track prep isnt all that great. my tires arent all that crappy either, they are soft street tires. so anything in the low 1.8 range on street tires on mostly stock thirdgen L98's and LC2's would be great. stall or no stall.
i know the launch is what makes these cars. i see my top end drop off after second gear. i know there is a .3 second difference from a 2.0 60 and 1.88. i have seen .1 gains on icing the plenum and runners for colder air... i seen how weather effects the car. from hot days to cool nights, summer spring and fall.
problem is that on stock tires its gonna be VERY difficult to really get the best out of those cars, LC2's and L98s. just like TTA said, tire change netted .5 seconds for him. i'm just saying with a car that traps 102mph, its gonna take good tires to get good ETs such as the low 13s many claim.
I dont doubt stock TTA could hit lower 13's on drag radials/slicks. but bone stock its gonna take a great track prep to hook and go lower 13s. mid 13's is all i would think they can go. sure every car type has their fast freaks from really goood drivers. but majority of the cars driven by decent drivers on stock tires will only go mid high 13's
Can't really compare launching a TPI car against a TTA. The TTA will out launch any stock TPI car. The torque arm mount does that. The TTA mount is relocated and isn't on the trans like V8 cars.
Its very easy to get 1.9x short times in the TTA, let alone 1.8x. All on street tires with the stock converter. I was able to run 1.6x on the stock converter and drag radials. Heck, I didn't change my converter until I was running 11.8x because it was killing me. 11.8@121 isn't too good
Give me a bone stock TTA, a paperclip, crescent wrench and fill at the gas station of my choice and I'll hand a bone stock 03/04 Cobra its a$$
Just as long as Evan Smith isn't driving it.
Could I be the driver??? I have seen Evan Smith drive (in person) and wouldnt be worried about matching his times. All you have to do is stab and grab the gears and launch it alright!
My best friend has an 86Gn stock it ran 13.9.I used to smoke the hell out of him with my zz4. Lets just say it now smokes the crap out of my zz4 with just a few mods.If you know how to work on those turbo 3.8s 11s is very easy with the stock turbo.I don't know much about those types of motors. I think the fastest ones ran low 13s in a TA but I could be wrong.Please correct.With a few mods the TA could run easy 12s but stock for stock the cobra.By friends dyno 232hp at the wheels and It was pretty much stock at that point. Just shows you how under rated those figures are.
As said, stock for stock, the Cobra has it all over a TTA. That's reality
Here's a quick hit on mods for when I ran 12.1@111 on a 1.69 short time:
ATR MAF pipe, 8" K&N, 1 screen out of MAF, LT1 valve springs, 160 thermostat, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, adjustable wastegate, cat pipe, Thrasher92 chip, and Nitto Drag Radials. Everything else was completely stock. 93 octane with Xylene mix yielding about 99 octane. 18psi of boost with 0.0 KR
Dynoed the same weekend of that run:
318/455 to the wheels
Really doesn't take much But this combo was maxxed out on pump gas, at least the stock injectors. Could have broken into the 11's easily with a race chip and race gas. But I always ran a street chip and never put any race gas in.
you did less mods to get your TTA in the low 12's then i did to get my L98 into the mid 13's...
Here's a new question for this post. What car will be worth more 10 years from now, in the same condition and mileage? There were alot more than 1500 03-04 Cobras made.. i bet a TTA in primo condition will get 35 grand...
By friends dyno 232hp at the wheels and It was pretty much stock at that point. Just shows you how under rated those figures are.
yep, all those motors were underated. they say 250hp... but its closer to 285 on motor by those rwhp numbers. good L98s dyno 215-220rwhp and are rated at 230-240hp crank. LOL L98 is more like 260-265hp from the factory.
yep, all those motors were underated. they say 250hp... but its closer to 285 on motor by those rwhp numbers. good L98s dyno 215-220rwhp and are rated at 230-240hp crank. LOL L98 is more like 260-265hp from the factory.
That was for a GN. 86 GN's were rated at 235hp and 87 were rated at 245hp.
Those 3.8 turbo motors are crazy! I really like the motors. Which they put them in my monte.But then I think about the good old american small block v8 that I love.A lot of the GN guys crack jokes about the montes but it is like comparing apples to oranges.
Those 3.8 turbo motors are crazy! I really like the motors. Which they put them in my monte.But then I think about the good old american small block v8 that I love.A lot of the GN guys crack jokes about the montes but it is like comparing apples to oranges.
Actually, the 83 and 84 Monte SS was quicker than the Turbo Regal. The Buick and Hurst Olds were about the same in performance. The Buick came to life in 86 with the intercooler and new placement of the turbo. A gain of 30/30+ will do that over the Olds and Chevy's 180/240 rating
I can go call up a friend of mine and he can run all 3 of his and they'll all run similar times(mid-low 13's), hell even the one with 2.77 gears(was in the Silver State races, hence the 2.77's) ran 13.5's with **** gears.
