SpecialGreg412

Well, ive been looking around local ads and on the for sale list on this site to buy a late model camaro. I've been doin a lot of research and learned alot of things but I couldn't find an answer to my question so i decide to put it up on here. My question is: Whats better in the lines of performance(i.e. 0-60, 1/4 Mile, etc...), a Z28/IROC with a 305 w/ Manual or a 350 w/Auto Transmission? and Why?


I've been bothered by this because i really want to buy a camaro with a stick shift but not at the cost of performance. This is my first post on the site so i hope it goes well and i just want to see what you guys think, and im not trying to start a civil war, im just looking for some advice on what would be better choice and what i should be looking to buy.THANKS!!!

P.S. IF IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE I WAS LOOKING FOR A CAMARO FROM 1990-92.

Savage388

Well the 350 700r4 is better in a straight line and the l98 has more potential than the little 305 but theres no doubt a stick is more fun everywhere and good G92 cars aren't very much slower than the L98.

paul_huryk

Obviously the 350 makes more power, but loses some in the auto trans compared to the 5-speed.

But, in terms of upgrading, the 350 wins hands down. You can run almost any high performance head with a 350 (hard if not impossible with the 305's smaller bore), plus you have the 45 cubic inch advantage for TQ production.

midias

Hard question would you rather do an engine swap or a trans swap?

If I bought the auto I would not let anyone know so I could keep my man card until I got my manual swap completed. If I had a 305 I would drive it until I had my new engine built and ready for a swap.

danziger

Straight-line performance? L98/700R4 easily. Autocross? 305/T5.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I'd take the slightly less power for the third pedal every time.

midias

I would rather swap a 350 than go from auto to manual. It is easier IMHO because you don't have to cut the body or find all the items including the shift plate.

86White_T/A305

Dont look at which is better off the showroom floor.If you have any plans on modding the car then this is null and void.

You can start with the 305/t5 if you want a stick car fun to drive.Save up and simply swap in a 350 in mere hrs and bolt everything right back on.Around here..finding 305/t5 cars is rare and finding parts to convert an auto 350 car to manual is becoming rare also.Though if you keep the t5 and swap in a 350..you better be easy on hard launches,the t5's dont like the shock of tq for long before it breaks.

Though if you do go with a 350/auto car..dont worry about having your man card pulled either.A well built 700R4 with a good stall can be very deadly surprise to the nay sayers who might pull up next to you and watch your tailights when you stall the car up and take off.Slap a ratchet shifter on it and bang gears that way..trust me it will change their minds about having an auto car with some good tq from the l98.Add a set of gears 3.73 or 4.10 and the car is a whole new animal!

Pick your poison,there are pros/cons to both depending on what you want as the end result.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

350/auto all the way.

Savage388

For some power the auto is better less worries about scattering the trans. Mine scares me honestly I cant have any fun with it so when you add power the T5 loses its fun factor quick or things will get pricey quicker.

Phenom-1

Give me The L98 and 700R4 till the Death I'll put my Life on its hands, anybody that knows how to shift an Automatic will always beat a 5speed, Like Myself.

86White_T/A305

The problem with t5's isnt so much hp..but handling such brute tq is what shatters them so easy.Going auto is great for having a consistent street/strip car..yes but you need to throw more power to make up for drivetrain loss to the wheel.

Or just build a mild 350 with a lt1 t56 ..good clutch setup with minor t56 upgrades.You have a very fun car with good mileage and will hold its on on the track both strip or road course

Savage388

Yea a solid bolt on l98 should make easy work of a t5 with all the torque those tpi setups make. They start off with with 345 ftlbs from the factory and only goes up from there which is way too much for the t5 wc even. The t56 is a nice upgrade but does cost a pretty penny and a bit of work to accomplish.

lozantius82

iTrader: (1)

HAhahahahaha Funny cause i have beaten plenty of auto powered cars that have been shifted pretty darn well, it takes skill to drive a stick! A monkey can drive a auto lol Just slam the pedal! You can stall a stick to any rpm you want, something you auto guys WISH you can do in stock form!!! Autos must have a neck snapping shift kit to decrease E/T and a stall convertor to get a nasty launch. A stick can be driven smooth and hard when you want unlike a built auto. Stock for stock a stick is way faster and i have proven that to each of my friends whom hate my car cause it has beaten there slow turds with LESS mods!!! 305 cause it came with a 5 speed , and i wont have to butcher my ride swapping to a 350 with a T56!!! If the L98 came WITH the ZF 6 speed i would have gotten a 350 but since it came auto i decided on a LB9 Iroc! Go stick or go home!!!! Its like buying a automatic ZR1 for gosh sakes WHAT A WASTE!!!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

lmfao, auto guys "wish" they can do in stock form??? Who stays in stock form???? How many stick guys do you know that can pull 1.2x - 1.3x sixty foots at the track? Hmmmmmmm? Boosted engines with stalled automatics w/transbrake will annihilate sticks off of the line, trust me. Yes, it takes skill to run a stick shift, I've owned plenty of them, but who really cares in today's day and age anymore, I know I don't...

cIaRmOaCrZo

i can sway either way. but im more of the auto guy. i have both (more autos though) and im actually driving a stick 92 rs at the moment to and from work. but i like my auto 3rdgens way more. although this whole summer, the stick rs is growing on me. it has a fun factor i guess, but when you just flat arnt trying to "have fun" and just want to get to work or anywhere, the stick can be annoying, so the auto is great. and autos are a drag racers choice of trans

lozantius82

iTrader: (1)

Give me a break man, do you really think somebody will slap a transbrake on there daily driver??? Yeah autos are way more consistant at the track but a stick will also DESTROY a set of slicks AND pull 1.2-1.3 sixty foots too! A auto is BORING!!! But its the better commuter and yes rowing gears in traffic sucks!
To each there own but sticks have there place in drag racing and when people buy a sports car stick is the #1 choice! Because its fun, and with the right driver its fast!!! Streetlethal yeah go boast about your trailor queens consistant 60 foots, but this is the real world (away from the track) people want to be able to cruise at low rpm's, stall at any speed, drive there cars easy, and bang those gears when they want!!! With a stalled auto you loose that peppy throttle and gain one soggy throttle that you must press down just to get going in traffic. A shift kit is permanent too and you can't make that go away either! I can drive my car smooth, bang my gears, stall my speed, and save gas with my low 5th gear!!! ALL THIS IN STOCK FORM!!!! STREETLETHAL HMMMMMM THINK REALSISTIC and give this kid some good advice! If he wants to fall asleep behind the wheel of a boring auto, or have some real fun with a 5 speed!!!

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

According to his first post - He wanted to know which was better in the quarter mile.

The reality is: the 350/Auto in stock form, wins hands down = Good Advice!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Give me a break man, do you really think somebody will be banging gears during each and every stop light in their daily driver? The transbrake is activated through a switch, it isn't on all of the time, only when racing. As for giving this kid some good advice, I always give the proper advice, not good advice. For a daily driver, there is no need to burn out the clutch by banging gears all of the time because it is more "fun" than an automatic, because it isn't. A stalled automatic w/transbrake will outperform any stick shift in racing, while remaining TOTALLY docile on the street when it needs to be. Umm, you think that isn't "good" advice?

lozantius82

iTrader: (1)

Your full of it man, A built trans is not docile, and yes i know what a transbrake is. I had a built 700R4 3800rpm stall, manual valve body, with trans brake on my 72 nova with a 406 SBC. It was NOT docile plus every shift was aggressive, and in traffic the convertor was so loose id had to press that pedal down further! Its all about skill with a stick, and if you guys prefer stick thats fine but don't lie to the kid by saying a auto is more fun to drive when in fact its not. The 5.7 was 2 tenths faster in stock form than the G92 5 speed which is not much of a big deal! The 5.7 would have been a homerun if it was offered in the 5 speed instead of the boring auto. why do you think people opted for a mustang or the 305 camaros? Cause auto throws out the fun factor!!! READ THE POLLS BUDDY AND DO YOU NOTICE STICKS ARE IN THE LEAD??? LOOK AT ALL THE REAL MUSCLE CARS FROM THE 60'S THERE ALL STICK!!! ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT DISAGREE WITH ME OUR YOU AUTO GUYS....OPEN UP UP YOUR MINDS AND STOP DENYING THE FUN NOSTALGIC MUSCLE CAR FACTOR AUTO WILL NEVER BRING!!!! ENOUGH SAID!!! BUNCH OF WHIMPS!!!

SpecialGreg412

Thanks everyone for you input but i think im gonna chase down a 305 with a manual trans., with the 305 only 2 tenths off its big brother im sure i could make up for that with some work.Thanks guys

and Remember E.L.E... EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY!!!!!

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

Guilty...

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Someone remember this if he ever throws the car up for sale here.

Phenom-1

After seeing this guys posts and his way of Talking and getting a message across, he's a Fanboy of sticks, and probably can't drive an auto. I know his kind, always bitchin about how Automatics are for P*ssys or for Grandma drivers, smh Guys like this Take the fun out of Places like this, their not content in making their opinion and being done they have to keep Trolling everybody else's comment about autos.

P.S. I own a 4th gen M6 and always Get angry if I drive it too much in Traffic Especially in Los Angeles, Every red light having to mess around with gears, That's Why Auto Beat out Stickshifts, You can Shift it Manually If you want to, But the beauty of it is You Don't Have To if you don't want to.

SpecialGreg412

You do have a very good point about traffic (esspecially in LA) but i live in a 'semi-rural' suburb of pittsburgh and there isnt much stop and go 'city' driving where i live. So i think that a stick would be alot of fun on the snaking roads near my home.

Guest

I was in the market for my first Camaro a few months ago and I too wanted a stick. Looked high and low and found tons. The big bad 305 tbi. A whopping 170hp. Finding an lb9 stick, especially in an iroc, is getting very hard. When I finally got my 350 with the auto of course, I felt great and it felt mean and fast. But now it doesn't and I want to mod it. Thank you Jesus for not giving me a 305. It will be fun until you want to go faster because the corolla in the next lane just smoked your ***. Then when it comes time to mod you'll wonder why your gains are less than imressive. 305's can be built but they are nothing compared to a comparable 350.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

Have fun with your sticks, but when you miss a gear or fry your clutch or bog it and I cruise away in my auto, don't be mad about it or make excuses.
As for this whole fun to drive crap that EVERYBODY loves to bring up in these discussions no matter what car it is, well I guess you don't have enough motor and need everything you can come up with to make the poor thing "fun". If you have enough motor and it is set up right, you don't need a stick to make it fun, it just is. And let's not go without noticing that nowofdays a stick is no longer faster in most cars, the autos are. The only reason people still buy them is because they are still stuck on their old school thinking and just ignore the facts and numbers. Let's look at the Veyron for example. One of the worlds fastest and most expensive cars, and do you see a clutch pedal in it? Nope. It might be a dual clutch box, but it is an automatic nonetheless. Then there is my buddy with his 10.3 second 4th gen.. Does he have a stick? Nope, just a typical GM auto and his wife drives it to get groceries. They also have an 11 sec. GN, and you guessed it, auto.
Also, who in the hell wants a wear part on their car that requires dropping the damn tranny to fix everytime you kill it??
The auto is the way of the future because it is BETTER. Why do you think you keep hearing all this "save the manual" crap now?
Oh and as far as old muscle cars go having sticks, whoopty do. That was a different time with much less technology or knowledge compared to now. I mean hell, we had 3 spds. at most back then in an auto, and now we are up to 8 and even 9. And even back then, if you were drag racing you had a powerglide, not a stick. The guy I crushed a few months ago in his 4 spd. 60's Impala that tried to run on me seemed to be plenty impressed with my auto as I blew by him and he gave me the thumbs up.
Either way, to each his own way of thinking, just expressing my way.

budfreak1

iTrader: (7)

+1

lozantius82

iTrader: (1)

Yeah a primate can drive a auto, and whats the science of luanching a auto or manually shifting a auto??? NONE!!! You should man up when driving in LA traffic or sell your 4th gen to me if you can't hack it!!! Look at the polls auto is loosing cause it can not compare to a sticks fun factor!!! Anyways the guy is gonna buy what he wants which is a 5 speed!!! He values his life and does not want to fall asleep behind a wheel of a boring auto!!! I was like you guys trying to stand up for autos in my old nice black automatic slp edition 99 SS and it got taken out by the majority of 6 speeds and from a roll it was worse!!! I use to envy the 6 speeds cause my auto came up short, until i wrecked it. Best thing that ever happened to me cause i was not gonna go back to a auto after getting my rear end handed to me consistantly by sticks! I reaspect your reasonble reasons but the majority of people by stick sports cars not autos. Thats a fact Phenom, love it or hate it! My dream car is a 69 copo camaro M22 4 speed rock crusher not a 3 speed auto cause im all for that nostalgic muscle car feel!!!

Guest

If your all for that nostalgic muscle car feel, why don't you go buy one and drive one? We're talking bout thirdgens and while they are the last of the muscle car feeling camaros, they are not classic muscle no matter how much you want them to be. You want the classic muscle car feel, go buy one. Not a thirdgen. Your argument is unfathomably weak.

duf6

Auto=soccer mom

Savage388

Quite the fanboy yourself aren't you? Fun is part of driving believe it or not,
I mean thats great that you can have a huge motor and do 10's in the quarter but that isn't always fun is it? sticks are meant to be more fun not faster at drag racing and if you think that youve gotta make huge power to have fun then i feel bad for you. just ask a miata owner whats fun, ill bet he wont say winning drag races cause thatll never happen but his car is fun nonetheless, you know why? Its because when you drive a stick you actually are an important part of the equation of how the car drive where it shifts and how hard it shifts, youre more involved, which is fun to plenty of people who dont care about numbers. And for your information automatics are a thing of the past too only there is no reason to go back like people who drive sticks do.
those dual clutches you called automatics are anything but, theres no torque converter and as the name implies they have a set of clutches to change the gears which more closely resemble a manual trans than an automatic. Oh and how come any journalist will tell you that stock for stock a standard is always faster than a true auto huh?

lozantius82

iTrader: (1)

Enough said brotha!!! They don't listen, but look at the polls!!! Stick is the favorite by a long shot!!!

lozantius82

iTrader: (1)

You should just shoot your self for that pointless comment and escort yourself out of thirdgen.org!

Guest

Fun in a car equals this: G's pulled on a skid pad, quarter mile times, the looks you get, the sound of your engine, beating the big talker in the next lane, the knowing your car can beat most anything you'll see on the street. No where in there is a manual required. Stock for stock a manual is quicker yes, but not with the kinds of drivers are out in the real world who don't know what they are doing. As far as my pointless comment: ok?

Savage388

Some people just dont get the satisfaction of knowing that you out drove the guy in the next lane, or its you making your car the fastest one around. Shifting yourself isnt required to be fast but it surely makes people feel better when the are fast with one. properly driving one is an art form, a dying one at that, that adds to the driving experience that wont show up on any et or on any skidpad but to anyone that can drive one well it is far more rewarding which is why people will defend them and keep buying them. By just looking at the numbers youll never get why people like them and people who covet those numbers will never understand why they are better even though an auto gives the same times at the track.

brando54009

manuals are always more fun

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

I can see where an auto trans may have the advantage for consistent quarter mile runs, but lets be honest, for the majority of us driving on the street which are not always perfectly flat, nothing is worse than having an auto bumbling about trying to figure out what what gear is best for a hill or a decline.

Yes you can shift it manually but there is lag and it makes the car feel like an appliance, like pushing buttons on a blender.

Real men do all the decision making at the right time when it comes to gears. Manual trans FTW!

oamhmad

iTrader: (1)

Auto transmission have clutches too that also wear out and require not only dropping the trans but also splitting it open, LOL!!

Driven properly and not abused a clutch should at least last as long as an auto in the same car. Only difference is when the auto goes out it's a hell of a job taking it apart.

And lets not even talk manual trans vs auto reliability and rates of failure over here. Has there ever been a 700r4/460LE that did not leak trans fluid?

Yes it's true, autos are the way for the future and the newest ones do out perform manuals. But reality check here, we're driving 23+ year old cars that will not adapt to the newest and latest 8, 9 speed, dual clutch paddle-shift my *** auto transmissions, so as far as third gens are concerned, it's a moot point. (I'll take back what i said once i see a Bugatti Veyron trans into third gen swap DIY on here!)

BTW, these cars are some of the simplest ever to do a clutch change. Drive shaft out, trans cross member and torque arm unbolted, trans to bell housing bolts out, and the trans is on the floor.

Guest

A lot of us auto owners are defensive on here because we didn't really have a choice. We can't exactly order these cars designed to our liking anymore. We want one, we find the one that is in our budget and not a pos, and we buy it. We can't always choose the drivetrain. Us 350 owners chose power over a manual. Not necessarily disliking manuals but knowing the 350 would give us more of what we wanted. A lot of us would choose a manual on it of we had the choice. Then you manual worshippers give us flak for driving an auto. We get defensive and pissed off.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

Manual hands down.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I didn't read all the biching back and forth on auto vs stick.

I'll answer YOUR question/comment.

Easy part. Buy a 91-92 Z28 that you find and like. Drive it as is (auto) for awhile. Save some $$ and put a T56 in it since your want a stick.

My supercharged 383lt1 is an auto (built FTI th400 with a nice tight ptc converter) I much rather a T56 in it.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I went through 2 700r4's before decided to swap to a T56. Rowing gears is just too much fun!

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

Yep. I won't lie and say I drive this Firebird like it's on it's last leg... Put the 350 in it, installed a new clutch because already had it all apart and I drive it hard. It's not my DD anymore so the above statement is no longer true. My F150 with the straight six and 5speed is by no means a vehicle you can drive hard. I just grandpa along in it.

project89

iTrader: (1)

u had a pos converter then, and a built auto very well can be docile on the street when built the correct way.

my rs has a worked to the teeth 700r4 and 4,500 rpm 8.5 inch converter and its a daily driver.
it shifts nice and soft on the street just like a stock trans. dosent take much pedel at all to move the car it acts liek a stock trans with a 2,200 stall until u put ur foot in it, once u get on the throttle that thing will make the gear change faster then u can push on a clutch pedal

on the street it makes all up and down shifts like normal when the shifter is in od and is full manual in any other range

J91

It's all a matter of personal preferance, some people like manuals, some like automatics. I do know this a properly built auto will shift quicker than the manual will, also like the post above states can be docile or downright violent in how hard it'll shift if built properly. I laugh when people get on here saying this or that is better, there are way too many variables to make that kind of claim. I personally love manual transmissions. I drive a very built automatic due to injuries sustained to my left foot and ankle many yrs ago. I just don't have the range of motion needed to drive a manual hard and fast anymore. It took awhile to get used to automatics, but now I love them....

Guest

Auto ftw!

lozantius82

iTrader: (1)

My nova had the best convertor from hughes buddy!!! With a expensive fully built 700r4 too! Explain how do you make a purposely built 700r4 shift like a stock trans??? Not gonna happen because you either choose the soft stage one or the neck snapping stage two and your STUCKwith your choice!!! No matter if you press the gas softly and drive it like a granny ALL shifts will be positive!!! You can not make that go away!!! 4,500 convertor must have costed you Atleast 450 to 600 dollars and possibly with no lock up either. your 8.5 4,500 will require you to get into that pedal when in traffic and it DOES NOT feel like a 2,200 by a long shot! Drive a stock tranmission vs a built transmission and there too different animals! A BUILT trans is definitely not gonna function as a hybrid between granny mode and strip mode. Your hypothesis is pure psychosis buddy!!! Plus NHRA in the early 2000′s banned the use of lockup torque converters. NHRA's ban remains in effect till this day buddy in all classes, including Pro Modified, the Top Alcohol categories, Top Dragster, and Top Sportsman which makes your post total !!!

SBC84

actually sticks do not have there place in drag racing. Every car there with serious horsepower is and automatic...that is a 2 speed powerglide with and air selenoid shifter. out of 200 cars at the strip maybe 10 will be manual, and they will lenkos. not the cute little 5 speeds in the third gen camaro lol. all in all, it is way more fun to grip the steering wheel and try to control 500 hp than it is to to manually shift a 305 haha

Guest

Yeah if you want to go auto crossing get a manual. Oh yeah, and $4000+ of parts and tuning to even stand a damn chance