Nic

Seriously...

and umm...to make it legit for this forum...which one would win in a race?

elevario

Trans-am is to firebird as Z-28 is to camaro. Trans-am would murder a firebird unless it was a formula. Than the formula would win. Basically it is a firebird with a trans am engine!

Jims83TA

A firebird is usually a V6...but sometimes did come with a 305 LO3(rated at 170 hp)..and im sure there may have been other smaller V8's....they are usually w/o gfx...but some years did come with them as an option.

A TA comes with the GFX and a V8 standard....whether it be a 305 or 350...305 either auto or manual....350 auto only. TPI engines were more powerful....umm....for the basics more options...bigger engine....faster. TA's came with the Grid style tail lights and the wrap around spoiler. Sorry I dont know how much you really want to know...but that is pretty much the main differences...I know there are many more though.

So firebird vs TA .....of course the TA

but many people not into these cars will call their TA a firebird....and vise verser....dont forget the formulas...they have the same engines available for the TA's...with the firebird body....and came with the powerbulge hood.

Nic

So basically it's like this...?

Firebird = slow
Trans Am = Fast
Forumula = Fastest

Does the same hold true for the newer models as well? Like the one with the Ram Air is the Formula, the LS1 w/o ram air is a Trans Am, and the Firebird is the V6? I've always just called all of them Firebirds

85transamtpi

Thirdgen trans am's are kind of strange because they offered so many different engine options over many different years. The king is obviously the L98/auto, but the LB9/5 speed was very close in performance. But you could also get (depending on year) the L69 with auto or manual. The L69/5 speeds are great cars too. The performance of these engines can change a lot year to year because of changing cams due to emmisions. There were also many different rear ends out there ranging from 2.73's up to 3.42's. You kind of have to look at each individual car to determine how it will perform. That is why it is so important to do your research before you buy a thirdgen, or you may end up with a 16 second monster.

-peace

mss

formulas arent any faster than a regular t/a . it all depends on what engine combo it has . for example an lo3 formula will obviously not out perform an lb9 t/a and vice versa take a look at the tech section on this site nic , it has all the info about different combos etc ect i have yet to memorize them all

Paul_Hughes_87 T/A

they also look different. I think the trans am looks better but i am a bit biased

Mark A Shields

Correct me if I'm wrong, Formulas usually are faster because they don't have the gfx.

Nic

There's so many with these cars it's hard to keep track of them.

BloodRedDragon

Don't forget the TTA and the Firehawk. :rockon:

dudelovett

Heres how it works (appearance wise) I think:

1982-1984 I know nothing about these cars, sorry. I thikn the TA's all had tear drop cowl hoods, but don't quote me on that.

1985-1989 Firebirds came with V6's or LG4's, TA's came with a wide variety of V8's. Easiest way to distinguish would be a difference in tail lights (grid style on the TA), the spoiler, the vents on the hood and the presence of GFX on TA's. Also, the firebird had those rubber bumper thingys.

1990-1992 The base model Firebid now comes with GFX in some cases, you can stilll tell the difference because of the 15" wheels, the V6, the base model hood and the lack of a wrap around spoiler, plus I don't think these base model birds had the side vents that are present on a TA (1990 only). *note that the GFX/spoiler/front fascia/tail lights changed in 1991-1992*.

1987-1992 Just to **** with everyones heads, GM makes a Firebird Formula. Looks as follows, no GFX, TA spoiler, base model tail lights, a terar drop cowl hood and its own set of unique wheels. The formula was offered with the same engine options as the TA (which was a wide variety for a while there).

I hope thats a good, brief summary for ya Nic

85transamtpi

Its a lot easier with Mustangs! Us thirdgen guys have a lot to learn before we become "experts" on our cars. For you guys its just a few strange deals like the '85 5.0 auto vs. manual. We have those kinds of wierd combos all the way up to '92. GM got things straightened out with the 4th gens though. If its got a V8, it cooks

-peace

mss

since the last lg4 was made in 87 i dont see how thats possible . the last carbed motor gm made was the l69 , which was offered in the monte carlo ss

elevario

Yeah see I thought the formulas were faster than a trans am because of a weight advantage. No ground effects and firebird trim = less weight= better power to weight ratio. I know it's not much but it is a slight bit faster! Oh and the LS-1's that you're talking about Nic, The trans am and the formula both could have ram air but they had to have the ws-6 package. Without the ws-6 package neither had ram air. The formula has a spoiler that sits on the back hatch and looks fugly, the trans am one is bigger and is dope as hell! This is practically the only way you could tell the difference between a formula and a trans am now. I'm not sure about ground effects either for the new ones but I think all of the firebirds (including the trans-am) had them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

shrp1

HUH!!! I beg to differ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dudelovett

Hehe..never said they made em all the way through

iroc22

Well sure the TTA was faster; but how many times are you gonna come across one?? You come across an L98/auto and LB9 stick almost everyday.

shrp1

I agree, but that would make it the prince, NOT the KING!! hehehe

L8R

Synapsis

Dammit, and I thought my L98/Auto was king...


Are there any appearance differences between a TA and a TTA? I don't wanna pull up next to a TA and all of the sudden hear the hair dryer...

iroc22

They're all white stock with gold rims and a TURBO decal on the front fender where the GTA decal is. On the sail is a Indy decal; other than that they look like GTAs.

383GTABoy

I beg to differ i ran up aginst one just one week before i put my GTA away. The guy lives next to my lake house has it. Its cool as hell he just paid 22,000 for it. It only has 6000 original miles on it.
Oh yea, the order goes
firebird= V6 or tbi 305=slow
transam=tbi or tpi 305=Getting there
Formula=TPI 305 or 350 option=now were getting somewhere
GTA=TPI 350 standard 305 option= woot!!
TTA=SC V6= HOLY S*************************************T!!!!!!!

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

"and I thought my L98/Auto was"

Out of regular production cars, the L98 Auto is. The TTA is a special edition, with only 1,550 being made in 89.

iroc22

I beg to differ with your list. The Firebird 305 TBI is faster than the TA 305 TBI. The Firebird is way lighter and has the same driveline. And the GTA was slower than an equal Formula or TA just because of it's weight that came along with the GTA option. SC V6??? Are you trying to say that the Turbo Trans Am was supercharged???

tpivette89

IROCZTWENTYGR8, correct me if im wrong, bt i thought they only produced 1500 TTAs, not 5500. and as for 4th gen differences, the way to tell a formula or firebird from a TA is by the fog lights. the TA has huge fog lights centrally located in the front facia, where the formula/firebird doesnt have them. the newest firebirds/formulas have foglights, but thy are much smaller than the TAs, and are at the far edges of the facia. formulas and firebirds are almost identical. only in 93-97 can you tell them apart, by the formulas having the grid style tailights, 98s an up all share the same tailights.

shrp1

Yes 1555 TTA's were built.

Who knows how many are left or are daily drivers, I hope they are being driven and enjoyed as they should be.

BTW, if I ever meet any of you, I am willing to trades drives, You let me drive your car, i let you drive the TTA!!!!!!!!

L8R

HrdRockA4305

To put it in 87-93 Mustang terms (some people might not like this)

Mustang GT = TA
Mustang LX 5.0 = Formula

If you get what I'm saying.

And then it gets complicated cause they didn't really have a low output V8. I guess you take away about 30-40 HP from the LX 5.0 and you've got the regular Bird (not knocking it I have an LO3 remember now guys) and add about 40 HP to the 4 cyl stang LX and you've got the V6 bird.

Now I know there are a huge number of powertrain variations, but generally speaking this kinda sums it up.

383GTABoy

Doh i meant Turbo

383GTABoy

alright so my list isnt perfect.
but Going fast isnt everything and this is the order of price.
Here lets do it by what was standard

firebird= V6 standard
transam=not sure if standard was tbi or tpi 305
Formula=TPI 305 standard
GTA=TPI 350 standard
TTA=TC V6 standard

There happy.
Sorry about the SC TC mixup you know what i meant.

CWIROC

Here is the king. Enough said! Just j/k. If its a bird and you love it just fly it.

iroc22

Alright yah I figured most people knew that the TTA was turbocharged. The Trans Am was standard TBI. And I'm pretty sure the Formula was 305 TPI standard after '91. There's a lot of LG4/L03 Formulas.

ChillPhatCat

What I am 95% sure of:

82-84 all V8 firebirds (base and TA) came with teardrop "power-bulge" hood...

85-86 no power-bulge on any Firebird

87-92 power-bulge only on the Formula

All TA's have side vents in front of doors (except TTA?)

TA engine options: 305-350: LG4, L03, L69, LB9 L98

Base Firebird Engines: I4, V6, V8 (LG4/L03)

They all are firebirds... put into sub-classes...

If you don't believe the base Firebirds w/ V8 had a power-bulge hood, tell that to my car! (see pic in sig).

iroc22

I think the reason why the TTA doesnt have the vent is because it was taken from the GTA platform.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I typed 5 instead of 1 and left out a 5. There were 1,550 TTA's and 5 test cars. I'll edit it. No1 will reply to correct it without reading the other posts that way.

91fbirdgta

iTrader: (1)

ok so let me understand something-my dad has a 91 firebird convertible w/ the LO3-30tbi-no mods basically all stock w/ about 27,000 original miles
now, you can check out my sig. my car has about 77,000 -would i be able to take him in a race (i was thinking yes) what do you guys think? plus i have glass t-tops-
thanks

chevySS

As far as third gens go, Trans Ams are always the high performance model. All Trans Ams, with the exception of the TTA, had V8's, while Firebirds either had a V6, or a carbed or TBI 305, depending on year. The Formula firebirds could have a carbed 305(pre 89 I think), a TBI 305(89 and newer), or a 305 or 350 TPI. So not all Formula Firebirds had TPI engines. I couldve bought an 89 WS6 Formula awhile back with a 305 TBI. It was a pretty nice car.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, for Firebirds the TA and GTA were the top models, BUT, a Formula which is lighter could be had with the SAME things as a TA. Makes u think which really was the high performance model when the Formula was around.

SSC

Good but I'll do a bit better.


Firbirds are base modle minor frills basic induction system, V8's are either carbed or TBI, standard small cam, base suspension. V6's carbed or TPI, rare 2.5's are carbed only.
TA/GTA/FF upgraded cam, suspension / GFX / hood and fenders with little air induction things in them, can be carbed!, CFI, TPI, and TBI.

Either modle can come with power windows, T-Tops, auto or standard tranny.

elevario

Yes, you will demolish a stock lo3!

Crazy Firebird Kid

HMM, Witchita I think thats about 7 or 8 hours from the Springs, I'll see you at about 9:00 tonight Seriously though, just for the oppurtunity to drive a TTA I might just swing by Witchita someday on one of my many trips out to Iowa.

shrp1

WOW your close to where i bought my car from, Elizabeth Co.
amd my sis lives in Falcon!!!!

Are you at the Academy?

Hey if you get by wichita holler, hopefully well be having a KSFBA meeting!!!!

Phil

shrp1

t

Mustang5L5

Lol...all these engines and body combos is confusing the hell out of me!

Us Mustang guys just had 1 engine to concentrate on after the '85 auto vs manual deal.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

We have choices and variety.

91fbirdgta

iTrader: (1)

thanks elevario,
i thought so

92 Formula

iTrader: (2)

In '91 and '92 the 5.0 5-speed Formula was actually advertised by Pontiac as their premier performance car. This is a direct quote from the '91 Pontiac sales brochure, page 60:

"For raw performance numbers, nothing in this book can beat Firebird Formula with the 5.0L H. O. V8 with TPI, 5-speed manual transmission, and Performance Enhancement Group."

And before anyone says I'm biased, my car had the base LO3 until I swapped in the 350 TPI.

Hope this helps.

Snowdog 91 Formula

L03 had to go....
Kind of changed things a little.
I have a 1991 Formula with GFX and the regular spoiler and yet not one person believes me. The L03 V8 option in the 91-92 Firebird is classified as "Formula".
The V6 was the base model.
The Trans-AM and GTA were TPI
(for the Formula: Option LB9 5.0)
Doesn't matter. I've made a few changes.
Be sure to click on more information about this ride:
http://www.lvfbody.com/whoismember_p...p?MemberID=101
No times or horsepower measurements yet. I am going to do it the right way and tell you what my RWHP and TQ is as well as my official track times are.
The rear end is going to be done soon too.
Even so. Facts are facts. I have went through this stuff with the history / restoration section, and they say I have the L03 option for the base model. Not so.
http://www.thirdgenresource.com/colo...309e707ada4363
The RPO code W66 (not WS6) is Formula Package.
The badging for the Formula was with the TPI LB9 model for it was the flagship of the advertising campaign.
But to be honest they categorize the L03 as Formula.
Like I said, it was a round and round with everyone on the forums and people saying this and that about it, but I have never seen such a heated debate about the formula in the 91-92 line.
Need MORE Proof?
http://reports.intellichoice.com/Rep...MODEL=Firebird
Everywhere I search, I look for a 91 "non" Formula, and end up with the V6 designation. Auto parts places, Vin / RPO etc... Even insurance.
I call my car a formula because the designation is there, everywhere I look in the books.
This and that about the L03... I YANKED it.
I'm making a "Formula".

92 Formula

iTrader: (2)

Snowdog,

I am aware of the thread you are talking about where no one believed that you own a Formula. I, too, believe your car is NOT a Formula. Not to be a jerk, or antoganistic or anything of that sort. The L03 in the base Firebird is an option. Many people told you this, and that option alone does not make a Formula. It's not like it's anything to be ashamed about, my Formula (when factory stock) had only one advantage over a L03 Firebird, the suspension, and a hood with a "power bulge." Oh yeah, and stickers that said "Formula." If you wanted to prove to everyone that your car really is this Formula, do as everyone suggested and take a pic of your SPID which will show the WS6, W66 and the RPO code for the ground affects W68 with your VIN to verify. If you don't have it then your car isn't...and it really isn't from the previous several threads on the History board.

Understand I'm not flaming you, which is why I never joined in on the other threads. I can't for the life of me see why it bothers you so much. When you build up your engine your car will be just as fast as it would be without the Formula decals. Trust me. There are many, many members on this board who don't have the vaunted Formula decals and suspension and what not that will eat each and every car of mine.

But understand that a simple LO3 did not make a Firebird a Formula, it took the WS6 and W66. You need to stop passing mis-information, too, because ANY WS6/W66 car with L03 or above car had the Formula, but only if it WS6/W66.

Again, no flame, I know you won't like this, but you shouldn't lead other people astray. I'm sure your car is extremely cool, be happy with it.

Snowdog 91 Formula

I suppose I am a total idiot then.
I said / done enough damage.
And yes, my descriptions do show the L03.
I won't dispute that to any formula owner.
LOL my "Formula" is better than what was available at the time so why should I even talk about it?
Suspension and rear end are next on my "To-Do's"
Flames have arisen from my own arrogance and ignorance.

92 Formula

iTrader: (2)

Did I call you an idiot? You are incorrect, not an idiot. For some reason your car has GOT to be a Formula come hell or high water. Look, I'm not trying to criticize you and it seems it is futile to try and correct you but I just don't want the original poster to get wrong information.

Again, I'm sure your car is a really cool car, no where have I said it isn't.

giovanhalen

The fastest stock Pontiac Firebird I ever raced on the street was a 1971 455 HO Formula. I was in a low 12 second 67 Chevelle and the bird was only a few cars back! The TTA ran the fastest I seen at the track for a stock bird, well it sounded stock anyway.