Camaro89

I recently bought an 88 IROC with a MAF TPI 5.7 liter engine and automatic transmission. It also has the better gears for that year - 3.27. I would like to take it from running low 14s to mid 13s with mild mods. What would be some of the best cam, heads and header combos. I would like to stay away from reprogramming the memcal if it all possible. aTdHvAaNnKcSe

PONTIMANIAC 90

To be honest w/you you should really go scour(search) this whole site, archives an' all, for the answer to your very General question. You'll find a lot of answers and then some.
But I was a newjack, at one time like you ,and I just did a heads, cam swap as well. One thing is for sure is that you'll have to get a new prom burned for major changes like that, at least if you want your performance optimized.
Also, I always thought that all 5.7TPI cars were SD and not MAF. Were there MAF 350s? HMM?

Night Hawk

Nope the earlier TPI 350's (L98's) were all MAF. I think in 1990 (possibly 89) they switched to SD.

jd13

Some of the 90s were made MAF and the switch was made in 1990 actually. So the other 90s are SD.

Don't really know what you mean by mild mods. But you could always do full exhaust and intake. That should drop you down into the 13s. Possibly new gears.

PONTIMANIAC 90

Yeah, I remember reading somewere on these boards that Pontiac switched to SD chronologically earlier than Chevy. L98 cars must have been in the same boat as LB9s.

Camaro89

By mild mods, I mean mods that won't be to radical and cause loss of vacuum pressure, a lopy idle, swapping to a speed density setup, etc. I want to keep my car stock as much as possible, but want to squeeze some better times out of her. I was hoping there might be a combination of heads, cam and exhaust setup that would accomplish this without having to reprogram the memcal though I'm not totally against it. Also, I have searched the boards extensively and it seems there isn't what would be called a proven combination. Some people suggest the LT4 cam with AFR 190 heads while others suggest different things. As a relatively new Fbody owner (and performance seeker), I don't know which parts to use in combination with one another and how they affect other areas of the car. If anyone can give some beginner tips or suggestions it would greatly be appreciated.

Ed Maher

Getting an L98 car into the mid 13s is not going to take AFR heads and an LT4 hot cam. Those are big power parts, and without good parts around them they're not going to work very well (i.e. you'd also need a completely revamped intake set-up, nice exhaust, a high dollar converter, suspension work, as well as programming to make it work optimally) and by the time you're into all that you're running way into the 12s.

I'd start with the little stuff and see how far you can get that to take you. Like maniac said, your best bet is to just do a bunch of searches and see the kind of results people have been getting from diferent combos.

berlinetta85

I love how people on the board asnwer questions that would take only a few lines to type, but instead they type a short story on telling the person asking the question to do a search...

Just answer the person's question...

Anyway... Camaro89, this is how you do it and keep it relatively stock.

Port the plenum & base
SLP runners
52mm Throttle body
Large tube headers
High flow cats (if you want to be legal)
Flowmaster with a single 3in out
Design a better cold air induction system
1900 stall
Shift kit
Under drive pulleys

That list of performance parts should launch you into the low 14's to high 13's. Beefing up the suspension for better traction would be the next step.

To bury yourself knee deep in the 13's... I'd go with an LT4 cam and find yourself a set of vette L98 heads.

At that point, I'd just go the extra mile and get a nitrous system set up and put myself into the 12's... but that's just me :-)

89_RS_Mike

Berlinetta85 list is a good place to start except for the 52mm TB stick with the stock one. I would also consider some lower control arms or at least LCA relocation brackets.

Camaro 89 you can make a ram air system by cutting the bottoms off your air cleaner box and ducting from the fog lights to the air cleaner box. This will require you to lose the fog lights though.

Good Luck and post some pics if you have them

Ed Maher

Lol, i love how guys come on here and give relatively bad advice, while at teh same time criticizing someone for recomending they search and take advantage of the collective experience of hundreds of people over years of time.

I.E.
- A TB is a complete waste of money on a near stock car. When you're getting well past the 300hp mark, then they start to make sense.
- A TPI camaro doesn't need a new cold air kit either consideirng the stock piece has been proven into the 11s / 10s
- A 1900 stall converter would be the biggest waste of money i could imagine and thats not counting the hassle of pulling the tranny for barely any gain.
- A shift kit doesn't do much of anything in improving ET really and is not a good idea for someone's first mod considering the relative difficulty level. And if you pay to have it done, it's really a waste of money.
- And underdrive pulleys, while worth a tenth or 2, are also prone to causing cooling and charging problems for 3 out of 4 people that run them, but you forgot to mention that. Maybe this guy spends an hour each day in traffic going to work. He'd have a dead battery in a week or 2 at that rate

There are so many ways to make a car go faster, but unless you understand what your bottlenecks are at each stage of the game you're just going to waste your time and money if you don't do your homework. This question has been beaten into the ground so many times that it would be stupid to not take the time to see how things have worked out for people in the past.

berlinetta85

Ed your way off...

I'm giving the guy a good base line for what he hopes to achieve. The guy asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer.

1. Working on your car is only as difficult as you make it. Confidence is the key for that. Know what your doing and you'll come out on top everytime.

2. Putting togther the list I gave is excellent for 89Camaro since he is looking for minor mods. Upgrading the parts I mentioned are a great idea for reliability and performance. I'm assuming he'll be driving this car daily and it'll see track time maybe twice a month. It needs to be built for dependence 1st then performance 2nd.

3. Lastly... I wouldn't take the word of one person over the masses any day. I know the bottom line from personal experiences and extensive research. But in the end, it's 89Camaro's decision on what path to take with his vehicle. So don't get so sensative when someone offers different advice from yours. It's just someone elses opinion. Take it like a grain of salt.

I'm not looking to pick a fight or take shots at you brother... so lets not bicker...

Camaro89

I didn't mean for the topic to cause a small spitting match among Fbody owners. I was looking for people to give me their advice whether it be right, wrong or indifferent and let me decipher which is sound advice and which isn't. I have searched the boards extensively, but didn't find any information useful for what I was trying to obtain with my car. Therefore, I thought I would make a new thread to try and generate some information pertinent to my question like finding what small bottlenecks I could overcome and the such. Therefore, I would encourage all advice (and criticism) in a courteous manner. After all, we all have a common interest - FBody cars and how to maintain them.

Ed Maher

But you did take a shot at me. No big deal though because you reinforced my point that you're better off reading the thousands of posts on these matters rather than listening to any one person's ideas since we all see things with a completely different perspective.
Mine is one of true bang for the buck with no wasted effort along the way, because i don't have the money to waste, nor the heart to have a long list of mods and a poor timeslip to show for them.
And if you're trying to give the guy a good baseline, why would you suggest something like a TB that won't really be useful until you have heads, cam and a completely reworked intake, but at the same time suggest a 1900 converter which isn't even optimal for a stock engine, let alone a cammed, headed car? Thats why i criticize your list, it has pieces in it that just don't match or make sense at this stage. He'd be better off skipping everything i pointed out in my first reply to you and buying a vigilante in the 24-3200 rpm stall range. I guarantee you it would go faster with the vig than with a TB, custom CAI, pullies, shft kit and cheap stock converter. And with a good converter in the car, you're then free to pick whatever cam floats your boat with no worry about loss of driveability or low end performance.

It's all good though, i'm just a **** at heart i guess...

gmgod

I got good results with just the "free mods" and the dreaded off the shelf ADS chip (I did'nt know it was possible to make you own for about the same price). Then just playing with timing and fuel pressure. I'd try the free/cheap stuff first, it will yeild results you can feel. My goal is similar to yours- to run thirteens. Even if it is 13.99. I think headers and a 3 inch exhaust with the above mentioned will get you close if not there and not drain your wallet.

berlinetta85

Ed,

Glad your not taking it personal. But I have to disagree once agian with the high stall. A friend and I had the same eact cars with the same mods for several months, till we saw a difference in opinion on our next series of performance parts. He went with a high stall... 2400 and his MPG dropped off the planet and he revs too high on the freeway. I went with the 1900 and MPG only suffered a bit and I don't over rev on the freeway.

I'm a firm believer in being prepared for the future. And I still don't see why letting more air in the engine is a bad thing with a 52mm on a stock block. Now, as it is totally up to 89Camaro... he'll be all setup for an early nitrous set up or the head swap as you suggested. The guy could bounce either way...

gmgod

Can't you get stalls with lock-up now?

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

Instead of arguing I will throw out the proven mods. Exhaust, exhaust, exhaust. The exhaust on these things suck horribly. I would get a set of headers back first. If you have no emmissions then rip out all of the worthless smog stuff if you do then get a nice set of high flow cat(s). I have a catco cat on my car and am pretty happy with it. It did stink at first but that smell is long since gone. People seem to like the American Thunder 3" system and others like Dynomax. I personally had one made since it was really cheap for me. The "free mods"/cheap mods are a really good idea. Gutting your airbox will only help at higher speeds but it will help a little. Pullies have never been a trouble for me and I have had them on for 2 years now. Another thing to think about is the chip. You might want to look over the prom page and get into that. There are a lot of things to be gained from making your own prom. I loved the difference that mine made as well as the 30mpg on the highway with A/C on. Then you can get into suspension mods like LCA's, SFC, Adj Panhard Rod, Springs, etc... I hope that this helps out a little but I also agree with Ed search a lot. There are some really knowledgeable people here that are sick of posting replys to these types of posts so go do a search and you will find that knowledge. Good luck and happy motoring!

SMOKEN

exhaust sucks on these things? where did you get that info the exhaust from a 350 tpi was 2.5 inch from the left to right manifold then goes into 3 inches to the cat and from the cat back its a 3 incher ,i would say change the muffler ,but our exhaust are pretty decent, listen to ed mayer his 305 tpi runs 14.1 thats enough to see what he means

Ed Maher

I have to disagree with you on the high stall thing because i have a 3000 stall converter behind my stock 305. 1.85 60's on street tires is nothing to sneeze at, and highway MPG is unchanged because it's a lock-up converter. And thats with a stock 305, imagine what it would do with some power and rpms in front of it.
And bang for the buck, a TB will do nothing compared to a cam, intake base, or heads. If he's just gunning for 13s right now, his oney is much better spent on /towards one of those items. When he's gunning for 12s, then a TB becomes a complete part of a mustang eating breakfast

realfst383

Are some of you smoking crack, or are you just plain dumb...(to be blunt). The stock exhaust on the 3rd gens weren't worth the cast iron that those junk manifolds were made out of. Point of advise from someone who doesn't have an "INTERNET CAR". When my 88 IROC had its stock 305 auto it ran a best 15.95 at 84mph, which racing at New England Dragway is pretty good since its AT SEA LEVEL and extremely hot and humid. I put 90 dollar Hedman Hedders, had 'em Jet-Hotted, and a Catco High Flow Cat, exhaust dump right before the cat, and a simple Flowmaster cross flow muffler and tips put on. The only other mod was a home made ram air using KandN's. The next time I raced the car it went, same wheather conditions mind you, a best and back up time of 15.07 at 91mph......NOW PUT THAT IN YOUR CRACK PIPES AND SMOKE IT!!!!!!!! Now with the new engine combo I'm down into the high 11's but I don't want to even waste typing about that because if you think that the stock exhaust is good then you'll never understand anything of what i'm talking about.......

Gruvin84SS

Top three mods for your car:

1)headers

Stock manifolds create turbulence and are restrictions of good flow

2)better flowing exhaust

The quicker you can get the air out of the motor the better

3) rear suspension mods!

Alot of people think that you have to have 500HP to make a car fast(exageration), but if you can't put the 355 ft pounds to the ground now, what are you going to do with MORE? Good suspension mods should get you pulling 1.8x 60 ft times in street trim, then you will be fast. You will have many jaws dropping when you pull one of those times on the street. JMO

egmonster

I have to agree with Gruvin on the suspension mods. Also a higher lockup will be better for your track times and won't hurt your mileage... exhaust is a must and make sure your car is dialed in... you should be in the 13's no problem. Maybe low 13's if you do a little home porting to the intake and even heads.

brian89transam

I've been searching these boards for what I feel has been a long long long time. And if you look hard enough, you'll find that there are people for and against every mod out there. But I feel confident that I know the good mods, the bad mods, and the very arguable mods. I'd also like to say that although I don't know Ed personally, it seems he has a lot of experience with TPI, and as he already pointed out, he works with a tight budget, which makes his experiences valuable to us all. And I'm definately not trying to kiss anyone's a$$ here. It just really frustrates me when a guy with lots of track time and time on this board is pretty much completely bashed by someone with few posts and in my opinion stupid advice. I apoligize if I offend anyone.
That said, I think I'll give my own list of good first mods for an L98.

-First thing is a thorough tune up. Check the TPS, clean the TB and IAC, fuel system cleaner, fuel filter, plugs, wires, cap&rotor, coil, oil &filter, etc. You might also want to get a set of subframe connectors, even though they won't help your ETs.

-Free mods are great. It can be argued whether or not some of
them make a difference, but who cares, they're free.

-If you're not wanting to make a homemade CAI, then get some K&N filters. Maybe an airfoil, but the power gains from airfoils have always been arguable. The only reason everyone uses them is that they're so easy to install.

-Cat-back exhaust or cut-out or atleast a muffler.

-Headers. I know they're a pain and they're not cheap but they are a big bottleneck and the other mods you do will have more effect when when your exhaust is already opened up.

-At this point I think it would be best to start burning your own chips.(Even though it's not at all necessary at this stage.) If you're not into that, you may see a lot of improvement by increasing the base timing and adjusting your fuel pressure w/ an AFPR, but to do this correctly you'll have to test it at the track or atleast with a G-tech or Tazzo.

-If you start having traction problems you may want to look into LCAs and relocation brackets.

-Torque Convertor. From what I've read Vigilantes are the only way to go. You'll have to do a search on what stall speed though. I know they're expensive, but they can take off .5 sec off your 1/4 ET.

-Don't even think about a 52mm TB until you've got heads or a cam, unless you can pick a used one up really cheap. Don't even think about those ignition boxes either, they won't help. Underdrive pulleys can help your ETs, but you won't be able to feel the difference, and don't even consider them if you've got a good stereo system. The main thing is to just make sure your car's runnin in tip top condition, well tuned.

-Search Search Search. Research and make your own decisions based on lots of peoples experiences. And have fun.

-Brian

PONTIMANIAC 90

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC:
C’mon folks, there’s no reason to describe “mild mods”. They are listed in the TECH ARTICLES, for real! As far as getting you car into 13s, I got my 90 Formula 305/5speed that I’ve put into consistent 13.9s(13.8 once) w/stock heads and cam. Although the original 305 is dead-n-buried, I’d have to say that I had all the “free mods” and later all the “bolt-ons” and what put me into 13s was the 4.10 gears and some skill/luck.
Mild mods? 1st do a complete exhaust; headers to cats to catback. Than delve into intake stuff.

PONTIMANIAC 90

BTW, my sig is for my old 305. I'm gunning for high 12s w/my new ZZ4 350-LT4HC-AFR190s.