Hawk92z-TDZ

I can get a set of MSD or Accel injectors at a good price off a friend, which one is better?

DannyT

What lb/hr are they rated at? How much are they?

Hawk92z-TDZ

26lb and $450.00 obo Canadian

I am running 305 19lb on my 383 right now, so i kinda need bigger ones badly

I am gunna need a custom chip yet too.

ssbowtie1

Well now you are running your 383 way too lean and with the 26 lb injectors you will be running way too rich. I would recommend you keep the 19s and turn up the fp as high as you can for now. Then, save up for a custom chip and change the injectors at the same time. Too lean is horrid on an engine and too rich can wash your cylinder walls down and give you poor fuel economy so either way you want to take care of your chip ASAP especially if its still a stock 305 chip.

Hawk92z-TDZ

Will be changing from the stock tb this spring too, 52mm tb is plenty right?

26lb to rich? eek, the local shop was trying to talk me into 30lb's

ssbowtie1

I'm sorry you must have misunderstood me. I meant that it would run too rich with the stock chip. If properly tuned you'll be fine with 26lb injectors. Depending on how radical your combo is your more likely going to be fine with 26lbs unless you plan on going forced induction or N2o. Yes a 52mm TB will be plenty for a 383. Good luck

Hawk92z-TDZ

OK, so i'll pick up a set but not put them in till i get the chip done, and up the fuel presure, so back to origanal question, which ones are better, the Accel or the MSD or is there no diference?

And whats the best heads that work with the stock plugs? I was gunna go AFR's but i am told they need special plugs. Yes i got alot of work yet this winter/spring

I appreatiate the advice and help guys

DannyT

They are both 26lbs/hr? Find out what psi those flow rates are for too. More than likely the Accel ones are rated at 39.5psi, not sure about MSD though.

Even though you may run rich, the computer also has no idea that you have a larger motor and a good amount more air pumping through there. It's not like you're slapping larger injectors on a stock engine.

What does $450 Canadian equate to in U.S. dollars?

Hawk92z-TDZ

There both 26lbs, not sure on the conversion between US too Canadian funds, but i havnt been able to find eithure set for under $500 Canadian in any of the local hotrod shops.

What type/size of Injectors are u running DannyT?

gta324

Why not look into SVO injectors? alot cheaper than MSD/Accel. I just Bought SVO#30 for my 383 from summit 219 USD........

ctandc

The problem with going to larger injectors WITHOUT changing the settings in the chip has nothing to do with the size of your engine.

The chip 'thinks' the injectors are the size that came with that setup from the factory. So it will work those 26lb or 30lb injectors just like a 19lb or 22lb from the factory. And of course if you put in a higher rated injector, it will obviously flow alot more gas. Then the ECM reads the now rich condition and tries to adjust, but can only go so far.

You can 'band-aid' the problem somewhat by lowering the fuel pressure, but again, this only goes so far.

I've seen this in person regarding running rich, ESPECIALLY since ALOT of times the car will feel faster on the BUTT DYNO, but if you took it to the track or a real dyno, you'd realize you've lost power. As far as the stock PROM from GM, they tend to run rather rich anyway...as a slightly richer mix is 'safer' than too lean of a mix. Although a more than slightly rich mixture will allow gas to wash the oil off the cylinders, and kill the rings and bearings in the process.


HTH

Hawk92z-TDZ

So even going 30lb would be ok as long as i got the chip to back it up then? I think i will try and get all the parts then and get the chip burned last when i put the parts on.

Were do u find SVO injecters? I cant find anyone around here with them? Summit then?

Basicaly i got a 383 running on 305 TPI right now with a comp cam, not sure what one at moment.

Would like to add Super Ram with AFR 190 heads and a 1000cfm 52mm TB. I wont change the injectors untill i got the rest of the stuff.

What size of injecters should i go then as i will prolly go brand new now. If i cant find these good priced SVO ones i will prolly go MSD because on I got the MSD Ignition and coil and wires already and they work pretty good.

DannyT

ctandc:

You right about running rich. I was just saying that he wouldn't be as bad as others because he does have a larger motor and more mods. I've seen stock motors with bigger injectors and I can't figure out why.


Hawk92z:

$500 CAN is $326 USD. That's steep for new injectors. You can get them from eBay for just under $200 USD. Less for used ones.

The Ford/Accel 24lbers should be enough. I'm running stock injectors now but am replacing them as we speak with either Accel/SVO 24#ers or LS1 28#ers.
FYI: The twin 58mm TB flows 1000CFM, the 52mm is smaller. Not sure on the flow rate for it though.
Here is a set of used LS1 28.8# injectors for $185
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...400413184&rd=1

Hawk92z-TDZ

Thanx for the info on the injectors at Ebay, DannyT , gunna see if I can get them in the morning when my friend with an Ebay acount gets up

These TPI's sure can be confusing when your still learning them I am sure glad for the input from u guy's thanx

Any other tips i should know?

I gotta Emission test in the next few months too

90Formula-X-F

Jack the fuel pressure up to 50 lbs and stay with the #19 injectors. No matter what size motor you have, if you don't flow good #'s through your top end you'll be loosing more than gaining. Think of it like dumping a bucket slowly on a fast moving stream of air. it's gonna screw up everything from flow rate, swirl, turbulance and mixture. A quick spray into the air stream under high pressure to match the velocity of the air flow is pure rock -n- roll. That's where ponies are breed.

ctandc

...19lb injectors on with a 383? That's interesting...I just did the math....

And since all injectors are rated at 43.5psi, a 19lb injector run at 50psi would act like a 20.7llb injector.

Yes, in a perfect world, a higher psi fuel pressure in a smaller injector would have a better "stream" of fuel, but I think this is a moot point in this case.


First off, once you actually start putting enough fuel pressure thru those 19lb injectors to even START to feed that 383, you're going to be replacing the stock fuel pump, as it's old, and not designed to perform like that everyday.

Next, even if you're burning custom chips ( which is really the only true way of getting a bigger cube engine, or even the stock engine to run to it's fullest potential ) you're going to max the duty cycle out on those 19lb injectors pretty quick IMHO.


This means even MORE wear on the injectors. Why not go with 24lb or 28lb injectors and adjust the injector constant to get where you want to be. You'll put much less strain on the system, and get the same amount of fuel without pushing anything to the extreme. Not to mention, depending on your engine combo, the smaller injectors have the chance of leaning out the engine far enough to damage it.....ESPECIALLY at WOT runs.


You ever seen a motor run way too lean at say 5500 RPM? I have....and it wasn't pretty. Let's just say the only ride the guy took later that night was on a tow truck.


Just my highly inflated 2 cents.

90Formula-X-F

All those calculations are true in a ideal situation, however the volumetric efficiency of the 383 here maybe only 75% if there is weak flow in the top end. If that is the case then figures for fuel would change. That would make it all of 286 cubic inches in real time fuel air consumption. A strong running 350 with good flow #'s and a 85 - 90% V/E rating is consuming more fuel than the 383 with low volume #'s. Change a prom, add bigger injectors and you still have no more than you started with, that's what I'm talking about.

I been playing with hotrods since I was 14, been a technician for 27 years, most all of those 27 years a drivability tech and I also deal with a 700 HP sprint car during the season. You might say I know a little something about mixture's....

Hawk92z-TDZ

I wont be costom chiping it until i put the 28lbs off of ebay in it, as per previouse instructions.

Any sugestions for were to get a custom chip?

Blown87

iTrader: (1)

Contact Year One (www.yearone.com) and order a catalog. In the back of the catalog is a form that asks all of the mods that have been done to the car. Based off that they will burn the prom or reprogram the ECM (which ever the case may be) to your exact application. The cost is about $270 plus tax and shipping.

Bort62

...

Breadfan

all i have read so far is you can't use those injectors , and about V.E . But i have yet to here a hp level . Depending on your h.p leve; will determine the size injector to run . As with on N.A engines you will rarly see 100% ve . you will rarly be able to use 100% of the injectors rating . Because take time for the injector ramp on and back down the pintle isnt going to be just at wide open when it gets the signal . So you need to figure roughly 80% effective .

90Formula-X-F

You are so right breadfan. I also think that If an engine is running at a high level of efficiency ( V.E. ) You can bet that it's building decent horsepower. Everything is hand in hand. The knowledge of how to build efficiency is what makes a street car run with TPI. You can make one run like a rocket ship on the streets. but get run down on the track.. Depends on the wants of the user. I like the unreal quickness and the sound.. It's street power for me personally

DannyT

LOL, 19# injectors at 50psi only put out 20.3lbs/hr. That's less than enough fuel for a 383. I did three dyno runs with my stock 22# injectors on my 383. First run was at 48psi (23.1lbs/hr) and the last one was at 52psi (24.05lbs/hr). There was a 10HP and 15FT-LBs gain with the higher FP.

And yes the LS1 injectors will work, you just can't use the metal clips that hold them in to the fuel rail unless you grind a groove around them. Those that have removed their injectors know that they don't exactly fall out when that clip is turned anyways.

90Formula-X-F

It's not the 383ci that produces the power in your car. It's the AFR 190's. Put some restrictive heads on your car and the story all changes. the #19's are plenty at 50 lbs of pressure. I didn't say that they wouldn't work... with out flow they will probley reduce power instead of increase it being that large. He needs to save them when he has flow

gta324

my #22 at 50 psi handles my 383" just fine, its a little lean at high rpm......but they are enough. Adding SVO#30 just to prepare for my blower that are waiting in the garage......

DannyT

If you're lean at high RPMs then.......they aren't enough. Try more FP or bigger injectors and you'll run even better.

gta324

OK , maybe I expressed myself a little wrong but hey I'm from Sweden............

At 5700 rpm my A/F ratio is switching from green to yellow on my A/F gauge. I havent checked duty cycle yet.

#22 at 50 psi is #24 and #24 is good for about 427 hp so I think they are on the edge... BUT better to be on the safe side and go for a set of SVO#24 or bigger and get a custom PROM....

DannyT

Exactly, especially with that setup. You are right on the edge. 22# injectors at 50psi is 23.58lbs/hr, not sure what HP will support. I'd rather be a little rich than lean. That's why I have a set of 24s in my garage now waiting to go in

Breadfan

For a 427hp engine you would need a 27lb injector at 100% duty cycle . For a that kinda out put you should have a injector close to 33lbs so you can run it at 80% duty cyle a more realistic figure.

here is the formula

(HPxBSFC)/(Number of cyl x duty cyle)= injector flow rate


ex. 427x0.5=213.5
8x0.8=6.4


213.5/6.4=33.36

Hawk92z-TDZ

What PSI should i run these LS1 28.8# injectors at?

DannyT

The LS1 injectors are rated at 28.8lbs/hr at 58psi, your stock ones are rated at 43.5psi. If you run those LS1 injectors at 43.5psi you will have 24.94lbs/hr of fuel. That should be more than enough, maybe even lower until you get the rest of your engine modded.

STIFFLER

Hey Hawk don't contact anyone about a chip.. look into burning your own... I don't care what anyone offers you they can't make a good chip for you without running a scan tool on your car so any aftermarket chips are useless.. They may help out a little but not enough for what you pay for them...

Hawk92z-TDZ

U make it sound so easy but i have trouble running a regular computer So do u have a scan tool? And are u offerring :P hehehe

PaveTim

Anybody can tell me a website that I can check out ford svo injectors or have part numbers for the 24 and/or 27 pph injectors. Thank you guys.

DannyT

My 24# injectors have '0280 150 947' on them

bennycnu11

hey i think i am in the same situation as hawk92, i have a 88 iroc camaro which orginally had a 305, and i have recently installed a rebuild L98 350 into it but im still using the 19lb injectors and chip from my 305 tpi, can anyone tell me if my car is running to lean, and if so can i get by with this set with having any problems????