bjankuski

I currently have a 406 with Trickflow 23 degree heads, ZZ-409 cam (287, 287 duration, 226, 226 .050 duration, .520, .520 lift), TPIS 1.75 headers, cold air induction, Ported TPIS big mouth manifold, 10.0 compression, 52MM throttle body, 3.45 gears, and 3000 RPM stall speed. I am debating changing the cam to the ZZ-X cam that TPIS sells and I want to get some opinions on how this combination would work. The ZZ-X specifications are (290, 290 duration, 239, 239 .050 duration, .558, .558 lift) and they appear to be similar to some of the solid roller cams that a few of the members are using to make good power in their larger SBC with Superrrams.

Please let me know what you think of the cam change, will it work with the Superram power band?

Thanks

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

With a 400, it should be a perfect match.

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I'd say its a tad big for a superramed 407.. but shouldn't hurt you too bad. I'd port the intake extensively. A certain banned corvette ran a much bigger solid roller than that, but had better heads and an hogged out to the max superram.

IMO you'll see more HP than with your old cam, but it'll also get worse idle, gas mileage etc... I'd say go for it!

You may also look at a custom ground single pattern comp or crane cam, then spend the money you'll save from the overpriced TPIS cam on port work on the heads and intake, just my .02.

brutalform

that cam is great if you have at least 11:1 compression. a little gear wouldnt hurt either...tom

bjankuski

Thanks for the replies.

CHCKLS

Go for it. You will not be dissapointed. I had a 224/228 510/510 cam in my 408 SR, then swapped to the LPE219 (mistake) and have just started up my motor two weeks ago with something simliar to what you are looking and those at TPIS. I can tell already it's going to be awesome.

OMINOUS_87

You got the motor up and kicking yet?

Or you got it on a stand?

Mt gut feeling is that you should run it with what you got and see how far you can maximize performance.

If your not happy with the results, then change out the cam and look for more power.

By doing that you also have the opportunity to compare the combos side by side, and then share the results with the rest of the TGO community.

The more info you can put out the better and more respected you become, JK, trying to play on your emotions cause I am just interested to see how both those cams would work in your combo.

I understand that swapping a cam requires yanking the SR one day down the road, yikes.

CHCKLS

Nope, can be done without having to yank that bastard off.

OMINOUS_87

Ahh thats right.

He will have crossbar retro roller lifters with the 400 block.

Can yank the pushrods and fish the lifters up high enough to allow a 'easy' cam swap.

Forgive me for living in the world of factory roller block with 'non-attached' lifters.

CHCKLS

Even with factory roller blocks it can be done. It's more of a risk at that point on whether or not the lifter will drop away from the magnet. It does make for a neat looking picture (will have to try and find it). Car engine looks like its being given accupuncture with all the magents I had sticking up out of the heads

OMINOUS_87

Please do find us the pic, thats gotta be a classic that you can never lose.

CHCKLS

It will be a few days. I am under the gun to ge this car finished and out of my hair for a bit. I do have it somewhere just a matter of going back and looking through some CDs

Might jut post it with the rsults from my third dyno comparing between the three cams.

bjankuski

I have the current combination up and running and my best ET to date is 11.70 at 114.9 MPH in my 1986 Corvette. The dyno numbers were 353 RWHP at 5400 - 5800 RPM and 414 RWTQ at 2800 RPM.

While the combination is working well and it is quick, I was hoping to see 400 RWHP and 450 RWTQ numbers with the 406 and low 11's in the quarter. I have been studying the numbers of a few other SR 406 combinations and they are close to my goals and they are running cams that are similar to the ZZ-X cam. This is why I asked the question about the cam.

I have decided to leave the cam and instead change the cylinder heads or pistons to get my compression up to 11:1 and increase my head airflow to near 280 CFM with porting or different heads. I believe 400 RWHP is possible with the ZZ-409 cam that I have.

OMINOUS_87

Werd.

You plan to drop that big incher in the Formula?

Also, if you do by chance happen to swap out that cam, please do let me know as I very well may be interested in taking it off your hands if it comes down to something that will end up on a shelf in your garage.

Also, what are the timing events of that cam if you happen to have the cam card.

HiTech5

iTrader: (4)

I agree that the cylinder heads will get you the power. The Trick Flow's are not a bad head. With some porting you can wake them up. The single pattern cam is probably hurting you somewhat since the TF's do not flow at or above 75% intake/exhaust.

Some minor work on the intake side along with a full port on the exhaust and a little unshrouding on the chambers should net you some solid results.

www.geocities.com/dzperf

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

What heads flow 75%? AFR competition ported 195's flow around 74%. Trick Flow CNCd heads flow around 73% so competes with AFR but flow numbers are alot lower by like 20 cfm. But on the low end lifts, Trick flow is about 74% where afr is bit lower at 73%

HiTech5

iTrader: (4)

I'm using Brodix RR200 heads on my 406. The exhaust is flowing well above 75%.

I do not trust the manufacturers flow numbers so when my heads arrived, I had them flowed by a local engine builder on his Superflow. The exhaust flows so well that I am using a single pattern cam with 1.6 rockers intake and 1.52 exhaust.

I'll post the flow numbers if you're interested.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

sure, feel free to post some numbers. I am curious as to how those heads flow.

Question real quick: If based on manufacturers specs, say the Trickflow heads flow like 72-74%. So if i put a Superram on that, which supposively likes single pattern cams, what cam should I run on that motor? would 10degree split be good like a 220/230 or is that too much? Would small spit be better like a 224/230 or 220/224ish grind? Or should I run single pattern with more lift on exhaust side?

HiTech5

iTrader: (4)

On a 383 with SuperRam and Trick Flow heads, I would run a 224/230 or if you have enough compression, a 230/236.

Lingenfelter designed the 219/219 cam around his infamous ported Corvette heads which have a very good intake/exhaust ratio. The cam is a very versatile cam and runs well in most applications. Some motors however run best with split pattern cams.

OMINOUS_87

Most certainly good words here.

Both myself and David 91RS/Z28 run the CC-224/230, David on a 110LSA and mine on a 112LSA.

Both cars got proven Superram motors.

So whoever might choose such a cam wont be the first to run it with a Superram, so dont be afraid LOL.

Just thought Id get in here to plug the 224/230 product.

Also, from all the dyno graphs I have looked at, the 219/219 cam peaks HP about 800-1000 rpm earlier then the 224/230 cam.

My car peaks at 5800rpm and holds peak till 6000rpm, and that is in a 383 motor.

So what that buys you is BIGGER ***** at the of the 1/4 mile. Having greater power in the 5500-6000rpm range will earn you a couple more MPH over the 219/219 cam.

Take a look at the dyno graphs that are floating around here, about 6 or so that have either the 219/219 cam or the 224/230 cam. Also look at the MPH the cars are acheiving in the 1/4 mile.

HiTech5

iTrader: (4)

These are the flow numbers from the Brodix RR200 heads. This is with the CNC'd chambers, 2.05 intake, 1.60 exhaust, 30 deg. backcut and squared up exhaust port.

.200 .300 .400 .500 .600
146 197 246 264 271 int
117 165 203 222 228 exh

The Superflow operator and I were both shocked at the exhaust numbers and tested again to verify the results. The intake numbers were right on to what Brodix claims but the exhaust was much higher than Brodix numbers. The Brodix tech told me that they flow all exhausts without a pipe. These were flowed with a 1 3/4 pipe.

www.geocities.com/dzperf

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i guess the 224/230 is a bit too big for 350-355 then huh? I would say yes if 383's are peaking at around 5800rpm. Thats where i want my 350 to peak at when i get it done.

Wow those exhaust ports are wicked!! Nice flow numbers there.
Are AFR's and Trickflows tested with pipes, and would that cause alot more increase in flow to exhaust side?

OMINOUS_87

No, its great for a 350..............

The SR intake is the final limiting factor on the powerband. The powerband is fat as hell from 3000-6000 but doestn stretch far after that.

You will be very satisfied with the lope and behavior of that cam in a 350.

The 219/219 is a great cam, I am just the type who always like to do things differnet then the mainstream by picking parts that are a bit more obscure.

I was second after David to run that cam in a SR motor, I was the first to run the SDPC base with an SR, and the first to run the E-Tec head in a fuel injected combo with the SR and the 224/230 cam. At least on these boards.

Enough though about my loathing of copycat combos. Just do what makes you feel right about the combo. As far as the SR combos go, just about every last possible combo of parts has been assembled from mild to wild, and they all prove to be very potent when tuned and dialed in properly and assembled by compotent hands.

So anyway, my .02

Oh, and the 220/230 cam IMHO would suck, would bleed to much cylinder pressure, not to mention the motor is living under 6000rpm.

A big split in duration is needed for 3 reasons.

1. Poor E/I ratio in a poor cylinder head.
2. High reving motors where big RPMs dont allow enough time for the exhaust port to hang open long enough to fully clear the cylinfer.
3. Blower, N2O, Turbo.

OMINOUS_87

..........

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i was looking at getting a common combo with lots of performance so its easier to tune. Right now, i have no time for chip burning and need something so Fast chips can get me a good running chip, till i can tune it later.

Whenever this goes down, and I build up this motor, i am gonna need some help with the tune. probly going 350 but 383 would be sweet. I need it to be streetable cuz is mostly a daily driver and gas aint cheap nowadays. Probly gonna go with a custom grind similar to LPE if i cant get that cam for cheap.

Thanks for the info.

HiTech5

iTrader: (4)

It was probably mentioned earlier but keep the quench tight (.040) and try to run 10-10.3 compression. You will still be able to run pump gas and get the benefits of higher compression ie:better throttle response, power and idle characteristics.

bjankuski

Interesting conversations, thanks for the replies.

CHCKLS

Sorry, I originaly had the pic on a hard drive that went corrupt, unfortunately I am removing the cam out again which became fortunate for another photo op: