355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

there is some great great info in this thread and i dont want to see it get lost so im bringin it back up!! the only question i have is in all of the info that on here why is there non on the SLP runner setup? i wish i could find out how a set or ported slp runner would perform to all these others.....im on the hunt to push my 92 chevy reg-cab short bed 2wd truck into the 12s on a 355 with ported slp runners but just nto sure if it can be done....im still searchin for the right cam and heads that will still pass emmissions. any imput out there?

john8169

iTrader: (2)

EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS ARTICLE , PERIOD !!!!!! QUITE TELLING PEOPLE STOCK OR OTHER LTR SYSTEMS CHOKE ON A 383 , GET A GRIP ON REALITY !!!!!!!!!!

Daniel U

Thanks John!

firebirdfever

i Have the mini ram 2 mainfold and a .525/.558 lift cam and by god on a stock block it did wonders i also upgraded heads/ injectors/ throttlebody and much more you will se an incredible increase in horsepower and general driving ability. check this website out. wonderful guys that know what there talking about its www.tpis.com

ploegi

Check the aftermarket vendor review forum for some interesting threads on TPIS......

drb930

Latest links still work.

Anyone come up with a better cam for the Super Ram than the LPE 74219?

TPIS ZZ409 - http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles.../photo_06.html
Lunati LUN-501A4LUN - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-501A4LUN/

Thanks,
Dave

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

268XFI, 280XFI comp cams or any cam that has a 112-114 LSA

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

i have a LPE cam i like..it's a mech roller and a bit bigger then any you have listed..works fantastic. with my super ram & the old 383.

going to use it in the New 427sbc with the super ram.
LPE had this listed with there 420sbc with 406 fpt @ 1600rpm..lol and over 550fpt at 6000rpm.. never going lower then 400 fpt from 1600 to 6000rpm (Hp was in the 550 ball park) was a good cam in my LPE 383.

not going to use the above cam.. going with 246 248 @ 50 with a 618/620 lift mech roller in the 427 sbc (12.5 to 1 cr)

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but where did the article go?

EDIT, Nevermind, I found it.
http://xtremecarzone.com.au/index.php?showtopic=386

david068513

iTrader: (2)

Very interesting information. Really liking that HSR setup.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Too bad that the article didn't say which heads were used, but the best I could figure is that they are discontinued heads. Still no idea which ones they were, nor would heads would be equal or better to the same specs, as far as similar type (low rpm/torque producing) results.

david068513

iTrader: (2)

It says in here that they were trickflows not twisted, I believe it was page 3 or 4 also talking about emailing the writer for more info in the post


Edit.. Here it was at the top of page 2
Quote:
The heads used in the TPI Shoot Out were Trick Flow 23-degree (not Twisted
Wedge), and were installed with no porting on the 383 test motor.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Would have been nice if they did it with a stock L98 to show what differences it would make on a L98 as it came from the factory.

But, as to the other one, I do have the articles saved, so I can upload it tonight when I get home from work.

bobbyk3lly

yeah that wouldve been nice, but there only looking for the differences with the higher end motors im thinking?

cronsformula350

You should have seen my old motor, while now I'm building a crazier motor, dropping a 305 TPI in for the time being. Look at my 350 stock build up, sounded good, 8.43:1 compression, 87 octane, but the block cracked.

www.youtube.com/cronsformula350

ASE doc

I was thinking they may have used the TFS 23 degree heads which are still available. However, they may have used the G2s like the ones I have. They discontinued these heads because too many people didn't understand how to use them or, more to the point, how to measure valve to piston clearance. With the ZZX cam(240/240 @.050, 560/560, 112LSA) Huge ported early Superram base, SSM large tube runners, 10:1 flat tops and 6" rods, this 355 is a beast. A long runner TPI that pulls hard to 6,800rpm and eats LS1s for lunch. EDIT: I was misled by an inaccurate tachometer. My 355 TPI does pull hard to 6,200, not to 6,800. I have the rev limit on the MSD Digital 6 set at 6,900 and hit it real easy if I shift late. However, power does level off some above 6,200. I try to hit the shifter at 6,000. This puts the shift at 6,200, which seems to work best.

BuzzLOL

[Quote: Originally Posted by 89gta383 The stock tpi intake is not 'pulling' to 6000 rpm. Just because it flatlines after 4500 doesn't mean it is still 'pulling'. Pulling would imply that the car is 'pulling' harder, meaning going faster, and that is not happening if the intake is flatlining. The intake is restricting airflow when it flatlines. ]

[Quote: I know this is old, but, sorry, I disagree. Just because the engine is not INCREASING hp doesn't mean it's stopped pulling. That engine is continuing to increase it's rpms (and therefore accellerating) at the same hp level. It will not have nosed over until that hp number begins to drop.
As I understand it, once you hit peak hp, the next relevant issue is where the shift recovery will place you in the torque curve. Ideally you want to fall right back into the torque peak, or just slightly below it. -30306 ]

.. I have to agree with 89gta383, just because the calculated HP number is staying nearly flat doesn't mean the engine isn't stopping pulling. When you're driving the car, the TORQUE is what is pressing you back into the seat/accelerating the car hard, and as the RPMs continue to rise, the torque is falling off fast, and at some point it doesn't FEEL like you're accelerating very hard anymore and it's time to catch the next gear and start accelerating hard again... by creating graphs off rear wheel torque(thrust) vs RPMs for each gear, it would be really easy to see at what RPMs it would be more advantageous to be up into the next gear as far as acceleration goes...

BuzzLOL

.. Your problem with Speed Density (MAP) system wasn't "low vacuum", but that those rigid MAP systems don't automatically compensate for changes/mods like a MAF TPI system does! Notice the EFI systems in this thread were all tested with a huge 236/242 cam! (a little too big for trucking)

.. Looks like the Holley Street Ram or Accel SuperRam would make the BEST truck manifold! At least for a 383". Some of the long tube TPIs make more peak torque, but it's just that, PEAK torque over a narrow 300 RPM range. They're kind of peaky. The Street Ram and SuperRam aren't as peaky and stay strong over a WIDE RPM range with big HP. Which is what you want in a performance truck, strong torque pulling all the way through each gear, not just a strong peak over a narrow few RPMs range.

.. However, the "206/212 cam" you're considering for "5500+ RPMs" looks a little small compared to even the typical stock TPI 350" cam which I think most were around 207/209 duration... a 212/222 - 219/229 range or something cam would prolly work better for a (big tube TPI) HSR/ASR 5.7L Vortec headed truck engine with headers, freeflowing dual exhaust, freeflowing air cleaner, 4.10 gears... especially with compression ratio up in high 9's...

BuzzLOL

.. Looks like Super Rod Magazine folded up about 2009, but, fortunately, some of the links to that article on this last page still work. Such as this one:

http://xtremecarzone.com.au/index.php?showtopic=386

86_Stock_Iroc

Thanks for re-posting that link... i must have tried about fifteen of them, this one's still good. Great article!

AceBoogie!

Miniram intakes are bad a$$

Edmonchuck

I'm really glad that the links work. I'm looking to put a bit more power into a 100% street 1988 GTA L98. This article made some decisions for me given my application.

Good on all of you for keeping this link alive.

BuzzLOL

. There's some other budget performance tips discussed elsewhere on this site, but prolly not in that article... such as siamesing the stock intake ports together in the lower intake manifold... or adapting the stock throttle body (which isn't a restriction with mild power boosts), injectors, etc., and TPI plenum to an aftermarket Weiand tunnel ram lower base...

. I have a black '87 GTA TPI 350 700-R4... still mostly stock... maybe a shift kit, shifts at 3500 WOT in OD/D, firm shifts...... picked up a ZZ3 roller 208/221 cam, but now realize stock 207/209 cam is already more than the stock TPI can handle...

Edmonchuck

Thanks!

Yes, I've been reading a ton on this site for some time now, I just don't normally jump in over the last 12 years. There is so much on this site it is sometimes hard to find what you are looking for, especially since most builders are tuned to the fast 1/4 mile times. I am simply looking to build a better touring car so make the GTA's acronym live well into today...I prefer to take great road trips, I am looking to have fun in the mountains and along other windy roads, and just enjoy life. ...plus this car is of huge sentimental value to me so I don't want to turn it into a drag car. I have a purpose built chassis for that...

thebandit50187

i personally would like to see all these intakes dynoed on a more factory or stock level engine. an L98 or ZZ4 hell even a ZZ430 would make a good motor to see these intakes tested on. A lot of guys on here probably have closer set ups to the an L98 or ZZ4 than the 383 in the magazine. at that level of performance i could understand why a HSR or miniram made 100 peak horsepower over a stock tpi and if i was Holley or TPIS id use that article as a marketing tool. "the HSR makes 100+ hp over a stock tpi intake" and while that claim is true it really doesnt tell you why or how its does. im not ******* big cam, big cubic inch, and aftermarket heads but they arent a dime a dozen like stock 350's are. also i hate engine dynos but most engine dynos have a more consistant reading from dyno to dyno compared to chassis dynos. you can take your car to five different chassis dynos and with the same tune run 5 different rwhp ratings. on engine dynos they usually run bigger primaries than you could run in most street cars, no accessary drives, and super high flow muffler with unbent pipes. but i liked the article lol and good info to know for any build

BuzzLOL

. Mr. Bandit,

. Since you've made 16 posts on here seems like you should already know how a TPI intake performs on a stock 305 or 350 and what it's limitations are... which car are you modding the 305 in?

. Most TPI 350's came with about a 207/213 roller cam that wants to HP peak about 5200 RPMs at 325 HP... and does in a carb. setup... but the stock long tube TPI setup tuning whacks off HP above 4500 RPMs while bumping up mid-RPMs torque... (not so restrictive on the smaller 305")... so we look for alternatives that allow more RPMs/HP... most everything aftermarket does that to one extent or the other... some bias'd more toward HP or torque... cheapest solution with good balance of torque vs. HP is prolly swap all the TPI stuff including plenum onto the base of a used dual quad tunnel ram... or use a Stealth Ram kit:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Weiand/925/7540/10002/-1

. Need the one for small or big port early SBC heads, later '87-on SBC iron heads, or one for Vortec heads...

. Engine dynos tell us what an engine can do under ideal conditions, it's up to us to install it in our vehicle as close to that as we can get it...
.

thebandit50187

Well i know the general limitations of TPI. 4500-4900 RPM is usually where it starts cutting the peak horsepower numbers and that makes a great street set up with the amount of torque it can lay down. well im not wanting to modify neither one of my 305's that much but i have a ZZ3 350 that I'm rebuilding. i know the ZZ3 smog legal swap conversion could make 308 emission legal horsepower in carburetor form. i was always curious at why they never stuck a TPI intake on it, you'd think fuel injection would make even better emissions. i estimate that a tpi ZZ3 should make 280 to 320 horsepower in emission legal trim but i have no engine dyno results to verify that, me personally i think this is where a smog legal 4 barrel carb might start beating a TPI. i really need to see a HSR in a formula, i know there are clearance issues and i really dont want a cowl hood. now if only the HSR was an inch or two shorter it'd be perfect.

thebandit50187

i was thinking of adding an lt1 cam and edelbrock intake manifold to my TBI 305 or convert it over to TPI too for a lil more hp.

BuzzLOL

. The TPI 350 in a 'Vette is basically a TPI'd ZZx 350... right down to the same aluminum heads... slight difference in cams... ZZx cams have higher lifts... run into same problem with TPI'd ZZx 350, ZZx wants to rev to 5500 RPMs to make 345 HP, but TPI flattens HP curve at 4500... I have a ZZx cam for my '87 GTA TPI 350 which I assume was saddled with the smaller 202/207 low-lift one year only cam, but never got it in yet... figuring now it'll get domed pistons, Tunnel Port, and Hot Cam plus headers/4" exhaust and 1,000 CFM TB mod when I dig into it...

. There's nothing new about a TPI plenum on a tunnel ram base, to turn a Tuned Port I into a Tunnel Port I, it was done back in the 1980's to get around the TPI RPM's cutoff limitations... even seen GM do it back then to make a 'Tunnel P I' BBC in a 'Vette for possible future production...

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

The hot cam isn't a bad camshaft but it is a bad choice for a cam when you look at some of the other offerings. Only reason to choose it is if you got a smoking deal on it used. I ran it and wasn't impressed.

BuzzLOL

. Yes, it wouldn't do much in a stock TPI 350... what are some of the "other offerings" that are so much better?

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

That will vary widely based on what purpose you are building it for, what components you are using, transmission, rear end gears. I don't want to cloud this thread will an unrelated side issue so you should either start a new thread about picking a cam or do it via pm.

BuzzLOL

. Figured you didn't have any to name...

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I apologize, you are right. There is no better cam to use with TPI than the hot cam. It's red line of 6K matches perfectly. Had I thought there was a better cam I would have offered advice via pm or in another thread. O wait I did. good luck with your project Mr know it all.

thebandit50187

i would like to make a ZZ430 replica with a holley stealth ram, anything more than that i think id start saving for an LS swap. i like the torque of TPI and after driving TBI and a carb version. now to get a 6 speed and a heavy duty rear end lol

BuzzLOL

. Thank you for the apology and the link to the "another thread"... Oh, wait, you didn't give a link, you were just continuing to be negative and snotty through 3 postings... with nothing to back any of it up...

BuzzLOL

. Sounds like fun and a strong combo... if there is any height clearance issue with the HSR, don't see any reason why the top of the base unit couldn't be milled down slightly and/or angled slightly to gain the clearance needed... I would expect the HSR to give a better power curve than a Mini-Ram with it's too short runners...

thebandit50187

o yea not just power but torque curve should be much better. well ive heard the hood will hit the throttle body and what ever is used to make the 90 degree turn into the throttle body and hammering the structural support of the hood with give me enough clearance but i havent seen pics yet. if i had a camaro itd barely clear. i did see a few months back where corvette guys have had HSR modified to fit under stock hoods and they were milled and the plenum was redone.ill

thebandit50187

*ill find a link*

thebandit50187

and the GM 383 ht crate motor would be perfect with a TPI as peak power is @ 4500 RPM. i wanna see a dyno graph for that!!!

BuzzLOL

. Yeah, the HT 383 makes monster torque even without TPI... have you seen this buildup?:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...p/viewall.html

. Of course, you can easily beat the price with a rebuilt 383 shortblock plus Vortec heads... TPI/Vortec intake base... or any good heads... or even a SBC 400 with short duration cam...

Doober

I know it's an ancient thread... figured I'd put this here for the masses though.

http://xtremecarzone.com.au/STORAGE/...akeOptions.pdf

Still making me consider going from TBI to TPI on my 383 ������

89fast5oh

I am usually the first one to give someone a hard time for replying to a decades old thread.

BUT I LOVE this thread. I have read it many times over the years and just did so again.

So about 18 years later, yes the LS's are getting massive attention still! lol.

Also I have the scanned magazine pages. Can I post them back into this thread or is that a copyright no no?

Slowridr

iTrader: (1)

I never read the article. I'm definitely interested in the combo that gives the LTR setup the most horsepower. Im restoring a 350 GTA right now and want to retain its original longblock while using an LTR setup that maxes it horsepower potential. I want the most out of a factory looking car.

Ideally maybe a 383 from this 350 with port matched/honed heads, lower intake, plenum, and runners, perfectly matched cam, headers, exhaust, and rear end gears.

This thread and one other have articles showing an LTR getting over 450hp. If I can reproduce that I would be a happy camper.

Here's one of them
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...alth-mode.html

newbvetteguy

Make your life easy: build a 383 or a 400 with the best heads you can afford in the 195-210cc intake port volume range with a modern AGGRESSIVE hyd roller, a FIRST fuel injection intake, and good 1 3/4" headers (The American Racing Headers are fantastic modern headers with merge collectors, if they're available for your car.) -Tell Ken @ First you want his 1050 CFM throttle body and you want the intake exit CNCed open to a Felpro 1206 -he'll include both for free with purchase of the intake.

Or make your life easier still and just buy this crate engine from RCS Racing that's already done that and makes 460hp @ 5,200 RPM and 520 ft lbs @ 4,000 RPM. http://rcsracingengines.com/Perf%20C...evy%20EFI.html

These Chad Speier 205cc heads at the top of the pyramid for a 383, 396 or 406 FIRST-based TPI build, if money is no object; you can definitely exceed RCS Racing's #'s with these heads and a more aggressive cam than they use on their create engine that has a warrantee (Don't get sticker-shock when looking at heads; 2022 prices are pretty shockingly higher than 2019 prices, inflation got real.) http://speierracingheads.com/205cc-street-factor.html
289 CFM @ .500"; 300 CFM @ .550" lift, 303 CFM @ .600.

Someone needs to build the first mostly buy-and-install TPI-style SBC that exceeds 500hp and 500 ft lbs; why not you? -It's very much doable in 2022.

Adam

newbvetteguy

There's definitely some opportunities to make more power and with less headaches if you move to a modern EFI platform, too. You can go with a bigger can and tighter lobe centers than with a factory ECM, you can go Sequential fuel injection and even use an Open Valve Injection strategy that cools the incoming air and combustion chamber more and can tolerate higher cylinder pressures before getting pre-ignition, COP / CNP becomes an option. The opportunities for gains are still small but there's lots of little ones to be grabbed and you have definitely more cam flexibility with an aftermarket ECU.

I don't know how you third gen guys deal with remote tuners and burning chips and emailing logs a hundred times and spending $$$$ paying a tuner to do things that are so easy with a more modern EFI platform.

Adam

Bmassa75

I always wondered what a modern EFI system would do to a stock TPI 350.

okfoz

What aftermarket ECU are we talking about?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

cnp would probably a holley terminator

drb930

0411 PCM!