joejoe

iTrader: (1)

What would it take to run E/85 in a TPI? More fuel pres. bigger injectors, what if anything would it take??

pizza_guy

I'm sorry but I'm waving the "search" flag nice a tall here.

There are two that come to mind, plus I'm sure others, that have been covered, debated, opinonated, about.

Ah, try searching the Tech/General Engine area. Maybe the carb board if all else fails. The princicles are the same.

smartman__007

iTrader: (1)

You would need a wideband O2 to compensate for a different Stoich fuel ratio. Gas is 14.7 to 1 and Ethanol is something like 9.0 to 1. You would also have to swap to a gastank, fuel lines and everything that houses or delivers fuel to Alcohol compatible compounds. Other than that there isnt too much. Some companies are selling conversion kits.

smartman__007

iTrader: (1)

Just did a quick read and for a carb all you have to do is replace your gas tank, fuel lines, fuel pump and richen your fuel mixture by 35%. Howard Stewart Race Pump high performance V8 fuel pumps sells a pump thats impervious to ethanol. The only downside is your carbed car has to be DEDICATED to running ethanol. But at about half the cost of regular unleaded I'd be willing to swap.

joejoe

iTrader: (1)

I HERD THAT...not only the cost, its cleaner as far as air (polution?).

3.8TransAM

U could also up the compression to gain back the mileage u will lose running E85.

Lot higher ron rating on avg than regular gas.

It could be done, figure about 30% larger fuel injectors and a ethanol compatible fuel system.

Course you could always run it as is and see what dies first :-)

U will need to learn custom tuning and a wideband 02 will be a necessity.

I would run it if it was worth it. If regular is $3 a gallon and E85 is 2.89 as is common here in corn country, its not economically feasible to convert anything for it.

later
Jeremy

joejoe

iTrader: (1)

Why would the E-85 be as much reg. gas.....I wonder?????

smartman__007

iTrader: (1)

A shortage of Ethanol. Some gas manufacturers were still using older additives and they deemed them Cancerous and all that malarky... So everyone had to change over to ethanol thus causing a shortage and the hike in prices.

3.8TransAM

E85 is no deal at all after you take in the energy required to make it, the tax breaks it and the plants that make it get and the farmers subsidies.

We will see if it can stand on its own tow feet one day.

later
Jeremy

contact

corn is $2.60 per bushel
yield of ethanol is 2.5 gallons/bushel
ethanol has 67% of the energy of gasoline
do the math
............................................
don't use current pricing as your guide for thinking about
this issue,
due to recent law changes that effectively banned MTBE,
there is a shortage of ethanol production, I expect that
to moderate.
in the past, ethanol prices have been much lower,
but corn prices have hardly budged.

Tremo

In addition to the wideband O2 sensor and fuel system components, I'd think you'd also need larger injectors to be able to feed more fuel into it since the ratio is closer to 9:1. Then reprogram the memcal to burn the stuff at the right ratio and take advantage of the higher octane by running more spark advance. You should probably also raise the compression to take advantage of that octane. Maybe 11:1.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

One of my co-workers is really into researching E85 for his setup, I remember discussing it with him a few times before they switched us to different shifts. One possibility that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is to mix a moderate amount of E85 in with your regular fuel to enhance the octane rating, something that he's done with no ill effects. I want to say that he's used 15%, but you'd be best advised to do your own research before settling on a formula...

For whatever it's worth, he's one of the contributors to this Wikipedia article... (might be a good place to start researching...)

smartman__007

iTrader: (1)

Up here in Corn Country we have gasoline with 10% added rated at 89 octane... Sounds like 15% to 20% shouldnt have any ill effects.

formul8!!

You do not get as power out of Ethanol as you do from petroloeum gas. You will lose power, get worse mileage and pay more.

Why on earth would you want to spend the time and money converting to ethanol??

smartman__007

iTrader: (1)

Hate to break it to you but there have been some testing on stock vehicles claiming just what you said. Lower mileage and power. But according the the dyno tests and other various tests, ethanol improved everything in the vehicle. Less emissions, better mileage, better horsepower and torque, and even less frequent oil changes because of the low amount of contaminants.

joejoe

iTrader: (1)

My setup: 86 IROC, 89 L98 block, Lt1 alu. heads & intake, compres= 10.35-1, So I may play with a mix of ethanol/ gas, (after some more research), if I find a good forumula for the mix, I will post it.

wesilva

iTrader: (35)

Nice article in a recent Super Chevy. Apparently corn isn't the only product that can be converted to ethanol. Beer companies in Colorado are already turning over the waste from the brewing process to ethanol dealers. The article states that if every beer producer did the same, it would yeild millions of gallons of ethanol. The waste right now is being poured into municipal sewer systems. Might be a great alternative to someone who might be building a motor and went in that direction....versus a conversion where you work with the lower compression you have.
Not only is the octane higher but ethanol has a cooling effect. I'm not sure about E-85 but I'm sure guys that hang around the strip have seen intake manifolds that look almost frozen as a result of running alcohol. As already stated, the fuel system would have to be compatable. Stainless steel lines and a poly fuel cell would be the cheapest route. A stainless tank would be very cool but very expensive.

Both GM and Ford are experiencing better fuel mileage and power with the E-85. Both companies admit that the results were not expected.

formul8!!

For vehicles DESIGNED to run on E85. The new cars designed for this have everything worked out to run on this stuff and drive well.

For a vehicle not designed for this fuel, you will be wasting your money and will create LESS POWER and Ethanol picks up moisture which will also lose power. Plus, the octane is much higher than needed for a regular TPI street engine unless you are running high compression.

READ THIS: What is the range of a flexible fuel vehicle?

Hotdogstand

Any and all power gains from ethanol are direct results of the higher octane (detonation) level. This means that you can run much higher compression (equals power) with less fear of premature detonation. After so much pressure, gasoline will explode in the chamber even without a spark. Upping the octane pushes that limit farther out, allowing you to run more compression and more power.

Ethanol also requires less oxygen to burn than gasoline (mentioned above by smartman_007) and has a slight cooling effect when used, similar to nitros and methane (drag race fuels).

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hi New Guy,

You have to burn nearly twice as much ethanol than gas, meaning frequent stops to the e85 station.

Ethanol has a lower thermal output, meaning less thermal expansion pusing down on the pistion, meaning less power.

Yes, a 14:1 engine designed for ethanol use may may the same, or slightly more power than a 9:1 engine designed for gas use.

A 14:1 engine designed for gas use will make twice as much power as both.

This has been beaten to death. I have absolutely no problem building an engine that runs ethanol of I can get the stuff for 50 cents a gallon. Otherwise, I'm just not interested.

-- Joe

joejoe

iTrader: (1)

I was leaning more to carbon output than power, more power would be nice, but not the goal here. thanks for all the posts, Joe