getnloose91

I have a 91 firebird formula and I am taking off the intake manifold to get to the fuel rails/injectors. I pulled everything off, (manifold, altenator, fuel lines, throttlebody, and all the brackets that hold the lines in place). The manifold came off with no problem, but now the intake runners are giving me problems. I got them disconnected at both ends, and the gaskets are not connected. THere are no more bolts holding this thing down. I still cannot get the runners out though. Please help if you can...
thx
jon

rosco88ta

iTrader: (3)

there are two bolts on the inside of the manifold, inside meaning inboard not inside hidden or anything, just hard to see because of the egr valve.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yes, sneaky bolts... the outside runner bolts are easily visable but then there are the bolts on the manifold. that should be it

getnloose91

I already took them out. That is the tricky part. The intake runners are already seperated about 1/2 inch off the manifold, loose, but will not come out. The valve cover is not in the way. And i even loosened the fuel rail and tried pullin if off together, just incase that was restricting it. But still no luck. I know the bolts you guys are talking about, they were a pain to get to and take off. But i still cant think of anything else. I will try to post up pictures when i get my camera working. Thx

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you mean the runners are off the manifold, but are hangin up on something as you try to pull them out of the engine bay?

Since all the bolts are out, they runners just come right off. might need alittle tap of force to get the gaskets to break loose, but that aint much.

Pics will be good to see whats goin on

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

the ears on the runners catch on the fuel rail.. if you can't pull them out by rotating them and lifting up, then try pull them forward to the front of the car and out that way.

Americanmouse

iTrader: (7)

I have found the best way to to get the runners off, is after taking the bolts off and the plenum off. Lossen the 4 bolts for the fuel rail, then lift the rail up and the runners come right off.

getnloose91

I have tried all of the above. Yes the manifold is loose too, and the gaskets are completely off it. It is not caught up on the fuel rail either because i can lift part of the fuel rail up , and the runners still wont budge. i will have pics up tommorow. Thx guys for all of your input i really appreciate it. This is my first time posting on this site and it seems like i made the right choice. thx again

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

at the back of the intake, just in front of the distributor, there are two bolts that screw into the back of the runners.. are you sure you got those?

Most of the bolts run through the runners and thread into the intake, these back inside bolts run through the intake and thread into the runners. They can be very hard to see.

getnloose91

yes i did. Like i said b4. those were a pain to get out. but i did get those two out. The runners are seperated about 1/2 an inch from the manifold. They are loose but will not release from whatever it is stuck on

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Your situation is very weird. Can you see what its hitting? just inspect it really close and loook to see what its catching on. I didnt loosen my fuel rail and my runners pretty much just fell right off when i disconnected the manifold to runner bolts.

I have no idea why yours isnt coming off. Very strange indeed

getnloose91

getnloose91

As you can see all of the bolts are disconnected. THere is somewhat a large gap between the manifold and the runners. The runners also are not hitting the valve cover. this is very strange. Click the pictures to make them larger. I am really in a pickle here.

HD4mula

Take off the fuel rail front bolt (holding the pipes that connect to fuel hoses) and lift the whole fuel rail with injectors. Then they should be free to pull. The only thing I see is that rubber vacuum hose (with PCV) that goes to the lower manifold that is in the way.

getnloose91

I already took the bracket off, i know the pics dosent show that, but i cant remove the rails without the runners being off, i could but i dont want to damage anythign in the process. the hose shouldnt really restrict the runners from coming out, and if it did, it would only be on one side.

HD4mula

You can remove the rail. Just gently pry the injectors out of the lower manifold with the rail. Other than that there should be nothing to hold those runners other than pieces of the gasket still sticking to them.

getnloose91

will try, thx alot

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

either get teh injectors out the way or take off the valve covers... it might be snaggin on the lips of the valve covers. i had to take my covers off to reach the manifold and lower runner bolts anyway

getnloose91

Well just got the injectors out from the fuel rail, while still on the car. What a pain in the butt. I had to do this while the runners were on the car still. So i took off the fuel rail, and to my suprise, the intake runners are still stuck. I really dont know what the problem is, there is nothign connect to them, the valve covers are not in the way. And the gaskets are not attatched cause they move just enough so you can see them. I dont see anything else holding them down. Please, if any one has any advise, i need it. thx

rv1890

iTrader: (3)

Make sure the bottom runner bolt is not hitting one of the bolts on the lower intake manifold. If you have arp bolts then it will hit sometimes causing difficulty in removing the runners.

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

I can't fathom they're not connected to the intake with an actual space between the gasket surfaces, and yet still not comming off!! Personally, I would have broken something by now

I guess your next step would be unbolting the intake manifold. Unbolt it, pull out the distributor, unplug anything holding it on, and take it off. This way you can put the intake on a bench in front of you and you'll easily be able to inspect it from there to see why they're not comming off.

Good luck.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

YOu must have forgot a bolt or something....it does not make any sense that they wont come off now.

Get up close to it and play with the runners... LOOK to see where its snagging. If there is something in the way...you'll find it by close inspection

getnloose91

I have been doing that for quite some time now and still cannot figure it out. If it were a bolt, you would clearly be able to pinpoint it. but it seems like it is something else. i dont know. I am giong to take off the whole lower manifold to find out tho.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i thought the runners had to come off first before you can access the manifold bolts

and are both sides of the runners like this and gettin hung up on something? could u get one of the sides out?

getnloose91

very true, but so the runners are also suppose to come out first before taking off the fuel injectors and rail, and i managed that. I dont know if i can pull the whole lower manifold off. I will upload new pics of what is giong on. This is absolultly insane. Both sides are unable to come off, i will show you how much room there is between the closest bolt and the valve covers. i still have a lot of space. and the gaskets are off from it. I will try to upload a video showing how loose they are.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

How many runner bolts have you completely removed?

getnloose91

All of them, if even one was still attatched, the runners would not have seperated as far as they did as you can see in the pictures.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

how bout removing interference, like your PCV valves, your cold start injection line, other electrical lines running there such as your injector wires. lol thers absolutely no reason why you shouldnt be able to get it out...whats your technique, i know you have to rotate them inwards towards the centre of the engine while pulling away. lol mayb you can take off your valve covers, thatll free up some space.

EDIT: are all the bolts out? or are they just unthreaded and still in the holes...some of them are hard to remove and cant be removed till the runners are out.

getnloose91

like i said previously, all of the bolts are out, and fully threaded. If everyone here is in doubt, i will post up pics i guess. the injector wires have to be out of the way, i took the injectors out. so that eliminates that lol. as far as the valve covers, the runners arent close enough to hit them.

BruceEmbry

Hi,
I have a converted 82 Firebird, 350TPI. Never had a problem like this. I normally remove all wiring, when I have to service the injection system. I think you may still have bolts in there. Disconnect all of the injecter, sensors, etc and move the wiring harness out of the way. Look along the bottom of the runners, and I bet you left a bolt or two in there.

By the way, my TPI system is set-up like a 89.

8UpAFord

I figure out what you need to do.


Sledge Hammer
4 ft forged pry bar
5-10 sticks of TNT
12 pack budweiser
Shot of JD
and some band aids just in case you hurt yourself.

smithtc

iTrader: (5)

You didn't answer this question. I would not consider those gaps "big" by any means. IIRC, there are 7 bolts each side (??). Been a while since I messed with TPI.

If all the bolts are out, the runners should be real loose. Can bang stuff around and rotate the runners (top towards the center of engine) and slide them right out (laterally away from engine). Its not really that big of a deal. Some people even slide the runners out while rotating them with the fuel rail still bolted down. Maybe you need to put a little muscle into it.

Runners look like stock stuff, as well as the intake...and nasty at that. Just hammer that bitch out.

getnloose91

got them out.... you wouldnt believe why they were stuck if i told you guys, but the owner before jbwelded the lower parts of the manifold shut. thats why there was a big gap on top. all of the bolts were out, and now i just went through hell trying to re-shape it with my sander. i think i got it now though, thx for all the help.

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

wow, well that explains it!

WhiteKnight

the things that previous owners do.
By the way, I like the logo on the plenum. Was that you or the previous owner

getnloose91

I did it. I made a stencil out of the sail panels bird. then i sprayed the whole plenum black. and put the bird in red.

tenpin842

Well, I'm glad you got them off. Yeah, some people do some weird things. So how did you get them off? just wiggle back and forth to break it loose? Sledge hammer? lol!

getnloose91

All of the above, + some..... it was a real pain. But thank god its off. my only other concern was how to clean my fuel injectors now that i got them out.