Oscar

Hi,

So my Camaro has struggled to pass the last 4 smog inspections and failed the last two in So Cal. I am tired of going through this. I have 117,000 miles on it. No fluid leaks of any kind. Probabaly have a vacuum leak under the dash related to my vents because I can hear a hiss. Other than that, my Camaro is in immaculate condition, outside, inside, underneath the hood. It has not been a daily driver since around 1998. I will never sell it, and when I die, I have asked my wife to bury me in it. I put around 200 miles a year in it. Please see my list of mods below.

Because I love still love my car, I’m thinking about just throwing in a new engine and high flow cats. I would like to keep my Camaro TPI and smog legal, but I’m not sure how to go about this, what is compatible, and maybe upgrading a little. I will have someone do the work as I don’t have time. Currently my car is at the Chevy dealer where a friend works and will be looking at it. Should I look into a crate engine? What will fit? Should I be looking at just a block and heads? Not sure about budget either. I guess right now I can plan on a budget of 1-4K maybe 5K. Just not sure at this point. What is my best bang for my buck, a 383? A rebuilt? Although I’ve never been one to buy used or rebuilt. Am I wasting my money? Dealer can be very pricey, is there a better shop that knows what they are doing? I’m really looking for some guidance. I’m reading Camaro performance books now and the net to help educate me some more. Lot’s to think about. Other recommendation?

Some pictures of what my engine bay looks like now.

Sorry for the many questions and thanks in advance for your patience and help!

Happy Holidays!

http://f03-f01.mypicturetown.com/P2P...htiQa/item.jpg


http://f03-f01.mypicturetown.com/P2P...%25P0/item.jpg

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

When was the last time you did a tune up? Change plugs, wires, cap and rotor, and maybe some injector cleaner through it, and change out your o2 sensors and I bet you would pass. Plus it's only a couple hundred bucks, and it will give you better performance.

pdsq98gt

That little vacuum leak you speak of could be a cause for you failing emissions.

Oscar

every thing is just about new. All MSD ignition too. the whole car is in mint/show condition.
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you could be right, altough it is somewhere under the dash and related to the a/c vents. I notice one them lags a little to open and close. I can hear the hissing sound sometimes. I'll have my friend check it out.

Penix

I second that. With the new smog system in place you will fail with any vacuum leaks, even if everything else passes. If you can, post a picture of your smog testing results page, we can probably help you even more then.

Joel

Oscar

Thanks Joel, I have the same thread going in the TECH / GENERAL ENGINE forum. Kevin (moderator) there is helping me out too. He has a shop and I may take it in to him. See this link to the pictures of the smog results. Let me know what you think.

thanks again.

Oscar.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ew-engine.html

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

dial that fuel preasure down intill the exaust is hot

Oscar

your the second person to tell me to dial the fp down. what do you mean "till the exaust is hot"? Could I get a more thorough explanation?

thanks.

Penix

Okay, you will still fail if you have a vacuum leak but you failed because your NOx levels are too high. This is usually a case of the combustion chamber running too hot. Many things can cause this though, and here's a nice related read for ya... http://www.aa1car.com/library/2000/ic60032.htm

I agree, turning down the FP will probably help a fair bit, but try this too...

Go down to your local Napa Auto or other such location, and pick up one bottle of Seafoam and one bottle of CRC's G2P (Guaranteed to Pass). Next make sure you've got about 1 liter (2 bottles) or 32 oz of distilled water.

Start by bringing the engine up to operating temp, then adjust the idle to a consistent 2000-2500 rpm. Next locate vacuum source at the throttle body. Make sure it's one you can safely remove, and that you have spare tubing the same diameter as. Attach the spare vacuum line to the vacuum port keeping your thumb on the other end of the line to act as a cap. Slip your thumb off the end of the line just a bit producing a small vacuum leak and SLOWLY pour the water into the line... The engine might bog down a bit, if it does just stop pouring for a second and replace your thumb as the cap till the revs come back up, then continue as you were maybe poring a bit slower.

Once you are done with the water continue on to the Seafoam.

Follow the directions on the bottle of Seafom, but the poring technique is the same as with the water. Don't be surprised if there is alot of white smoke coming from your tail pipe during this whole process, that's normal and nothing to worry about, unless your neighbors don't like you

After you've completed these two tasks be sure to reconnect your vacuum line properly, replace it if necessary.

Next comes the G2P! Drive to your nearest Chevron station (Yes, Chevron and only Chevron!) and before filling up with the manufacturer recommended octane level, pour in the full bottle of CRC's G2P. Now it's time to drive... and drive and drive and drive You want to run the tank till it's on "E" then fill up at Chevron once again before going back to get tested. Your NOx levels will be MUCH lower this time!

Out of curiosity, what fuel do you use? Not what octane but what brand? If it's anything other than Chevron then guess what, now you're a Chevron man and everything else is Trust me, your failing smog is most likely due to too high of a fuel pressure and poor quality gasoline. Still, just in case, it'd be a good idea to replace the EGR valve as insurance.

I'll re post if I can think of anything else that might help... Actually, if your O2 sensor is old you might want to replace that too, maybe even your cat.

- Joel

rmmstnr

Try that Seafoam stuff, it works! I failed emissions once, did a complete tune-up, failed again, worse in one area in fact. Used Seafoam (2 full engine treatments, then split the rest between the gas and oil) and here are the results:

Emissions / HC Hydrocarbons / CO Carbon Monoxide / NOx Oxides Of N...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stand. Units/____0.8000___ /_____15.0000______/_____2.0000_______
______________Grams/Mile________Grams/Mile___________Grams/Mile____
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1st test
Reading: /______2.0813____/____34.2569_____/_____0.6791______

2nd test:
Reading: /______1.4347____/____45.0818_____/_____0.7763______

3rd test- Got a "fast pass" less than 30 seconds in. Don't have the acual results, but the HC emissions were down to about 1/2 the standard (in italics), and CO was down to 1/3 the standard. Forgot what NOX ended up as.

P.S. - I get that hissing too, I suppose I'll have to check my vents now. It didn't keep me from passing emissions though, not after that Seafoam stuff.

Penix

The vacuum thing just kicked in this month.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Why Chevron? A few years ago Chevron gas was blamed for failing fuel injectors in new GM cars and trucks.

Penix

Are you seriously telling me that someone found Chevron fuel to be the cause of GM fuel injectors becoming fouled? I'm calling on that one! First of all, why would it only foul GM injectors when most injectors come from the same companies? Perhaps GM being the cheapest SOB's on the planet right now decided to use crap fuel injectors in the first place? I think that's far more likely.

Here's a challenge for ya. Take two pistons from the same engine with equal amounts of carbon build up along with some of the valves too and throw them in two different buckets/pales, one with Chevron (w/ Techron) and one without, then let them sit for a week. After one week pull them from their containers and see which has less carbon buildup still remaining. This is how I tend to clean parts. I put them in a drum full of Chevron gasoline one week and pull them out the next. Most of the time they don't require much more than a good rinse with soapy water then fresh water, especially if it's circulated while it sits.

To add to all of this, I used to work for a machine shop that repaired several types of pumps for the Chevron refinery in Richmond California, and I've personally witnessed the power of their gasoline through much of the testing that takes place on site. I even used my Camaro as a guinea pig by using one of our bore scopes to check out my cylinders before using Chevron (I used to be a die hard 76 guy) then after 3000 miles of using Chevron with Techron... HUGE difference! Not only in my combustion chambers but in my carb too.

I'm sorry, but to all those who say that gasoline is gasoline and that all gasolines are essentially the same, well it's just like saying that all cylinder heads are essentially the same, or that all motor oils are essentially the same... We all know how stupid either of those statements are!

Trust me, use Chevron, thank me later... or don't and wish you had. Pay a tiny bit more now or potentially pay alot more later, which would you rather do?

- Joel

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

warm the car up to op temp and put your hand over the tailpipe

if it feels cool to the touch then you have your preasure too high

adjust untill it feels hot

Oscar

Joel,

thanks for the link! it is great reading. I printed the article so I can add it to the literature I already have.

Some thing else I may have over looked which addresses your question. Gas is about 6 months old (I think Unocal always 91 octane) and oil is about 4 years old because I have driven the car only 1k in the 4 years. I guess to compound the problem, the gas could make a difference but will old oil matter? I'll try Seafoam, and G2P. As I mentioned to Kevin (on a sepearte email) I looked back through 10 years of smog records and it seems the NOX increased greatly as I increased the fuel pressure.

So, looking through your recommendations, just so I know I'm understanding, first I should probably fill my tank with "new" gas run 32oz of water through the engine, then do the same with Seafoam and lastly add the G2P, drive until empty, then refill and attempt the smog test?
What exactly is the water, Seafoam and G2P doing and is there a chance it may harm my engine?

By the way, I'm gonna replace the cats with Carsound/Magnaflow highflow brand whether I pass or not. I would like to do the smog before the cats (dual cats) and maybe after to compare the readings. A little more money but I'm ok with that as I can write it off to a learning experience.
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Penix

Yeah, old fuel sucks, and will definitely make things worse. Drain the tank (don't run it out) and fill up with the new "good" stuff.

No, no chance of hurting the engine. And to answer your question, going from water to Seafoam then to G2P is like doing a three stage cleaning. First the water breaks up the easier to remove carbon in the cylinders and helps to soften up the harder to remove stuff. Next the Seafoam comes in and chemically breaks up and eliminates most of that which the water did not, including much of the buildup on the backs of the valves, and further readies the hardest to remove stuff for the G2P. The remaining crap to be removed takes time and here's where the G2P comes in. It cleans up nearly all, if not all of the remaining carbon build up slowly, and will also clean out your fuel system and injectors.

You know, it also sounds to me like you're just plain not driving this thing often enough. Get out there and enjoy the ride my friend, that's what it was designed for!

- Joel

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

No, I'm simply saying I remember reading back in 2000 or 2001 all over the LS1 car and truck forums across the country that injectors were failing regularly. The owners of the cars used Chevron gas exclusively. Draw your own conclusion. Nothing official was ever decided that I can remember.

Oscar, Magnaflow cats are one of the best. We use them exclusively because my dad has been friends with the owner since the 80's when he started the company.

Oscar

Yes, 1k miles in 4 years, certainly not enough. I plan on driving it more often in 2008. Two little girls and bicylcle racing keeping pretty busy. Also hard to fit the family in a camaro so I alway end up in my truck or my wife's 4-runner. I'm gonna schedule some drives for myself so I can enjoy the car and listen to my wicked stereo system.

Thanks for the help, I'm picking my car up tomorrow and will focus on it through the holidays since I'm off till after new years.

Oscar

Thanks for the endorsment. I do pay attention when a descent sampling of people make suggestions and recommedations and they are all saying the same thing. Hopefully I will get my car past this minor smog dilema and move on to find some more power. Glad I'm off of work till after new years so I can spend some time with Camaro. I love that car just as much as when I first bought it.

Cannon007

get that vacuum leak checked out and try seafoaming your car twice thoroughly, THEN replace O2 sensors, and cats, and if you still didnt pass, something is wrong. If your modified a lot then a good custom tune will go a long way also.

the blur

how can you tell him to lower his FP without asking him what his BLM's are ??
Why are you changing a motor due to failed emissions ?
How can anyone give advice with out seeing the test results?

and yes, that vaccume leak is a problem.

Oscar

What is BLM's?

I have 118,000 miles. I'm just wondering weather I should just go ahead and get a new block since I will be keeping the for ever.

So you think that the vacuum leak related to the a/c vents is a problem? Can it affect the EGR system?

Penix

No and Yes

Keep the engine just tune it properly and start driving it!

The vacuum leak may or may not effect the EGR but even if it doesn't it will fail smog due to the leak alone.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

the blur, he has another thread on this & has posted what it did on the test & also the mods he has done.

Oscar, 118,000 miles is nothing if it has been taken care of. my motor has over 200,000 on it & runs fine & passed its last emissions test with no problem.
if it runs right & doesn't smoke and your not looking for more power, i don't see a reason for a new motor, unless you just want one

the BLM stands for Block Learn Multiplier, its one of the fuel trims.
there are 2 fuel trims, BLM which is long term trim & the integrator which is the short term trim. these can tell you if the ECM is commanding the motor to run rich or lean.

the blur

a vacumme leak may cause a lean condition resulting in high emmisions. one of the emmision readings may go high from being too lean.