Ward

iTrader: (1)

I'm currently troubleshooting my EGR system, and I think my EGR solenoid needs replacing. I hooked it up to a 9V battery and checked the manifold side of it with a vacuum gauge, and it doesn't want to hold vacuum. This part is discontinued and near impossible to find, so I've been looking at alternative ones. I did see one thread about a 95 Deville one working, but I can't find it on either Autozone or O'Reilly's website.

I started looking to see what other ones might fit, and it looks like one from an LT1 could be made to fit. It would require changing the connector, but mine is already broken anyways, and needs to be replaced. It will also require modifying the vacuum lines slightly, mostly just using short sections of rubber line instead of the molded boot plug thing. Anyways, here is what it looks like, what do you guys think? I'm trying to think of what it could be bolted to using the existing bracket, anyone know how it's mounted on the LT1? I think it might fit, bolted upside down to the coil bracket, with the ports facing forward like original.

paulo57509

Is 9V enough to close the solenoid to make your test valid?

Your idea should work if the solenoid is a normally open one (I don't know if GM ever used a normally closed one).

Ward

iTrader: (1)

I was wondering the same thing about 9V not being enough voltage. I'm going to test it again off the car battery to make sure. Also, according to the Haynes manual, the solenoid is normally open. The ECM grounds it during startup and cold temps, blocking vacuum to the EGR valve.

Ward

iTrader: (1)

Well, I checked the solenoid with the car battery, it still does not hold vacuum. I don't think it's quite as critical as the EGR valve itself though, I imagine the side effects will be that it runs a little rough until it's warmed up. Still, I think I will try swapping to an LT1 type, just so it works as it should.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello Ward!!

The LT1 EGR solenoid will work ,and so will one off of a 2.0 L Cavalier/Sunfire. The EGR solenoid is just a fancy electric ported vacum switch. However, the solenoid clicks on and off a whole bunch of times every minute, which is known as it's duty cycle. As it clicks on and off it applies vacuum, and then releases the vacuum, as required to get the EGR valve to open, and close as EGR is either required or not required. Any EGR solenoid can be made to work, you just have to wire/vacuum hose connect it properly. As for mounting it, it's up to you how you do it, you can even mount it on the firewall.

Also, the 9v battery is a good way to test the solenoid, especially when you find one in the junk yard, test it first before you take it off the donor car, saves time!!!

Ward

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I think I'll have to make a trip to the junkyard this weekend and look for an LT1 to grab the connector and solenoid from. My solenoid is sort of working, but is definitely leaking vacuum by. With the solenoid on, the manifold side of it sort of holds vacuum but it almost instantly leaks back down. With the solenoid off, it doesn't hold any vacuum, and does not restrict. I'm assuming whatever seal or o-ring there is inside it is leaking. I would be half tempted to try taking it apart and rebuilding it, but it doesn't really look like I can take it apart without destroying it.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello Ward!!

Your solenoid might just be a little weak, you could try some electrical contact cleaner sprayed into the ports, it might help. I read somewhere's on the net about someone rebuilding one, the guy was careful about taking it apart, cleaned it all up, and it worked for him, so he said.

the net, you may find it, I believe it was on another automotive forum.

While at the junk yard, searching the GM brand of cars, get a couple of solenoids, you can then use them to test your rebuilding skills etc. I bought two in my local junk yard, for $3.95 each. Took them off of a 94 Pontiac Sunfire, and Chevy Cavalier with the 2.0 L engine. They sit right on top, behind the valve cover. There are two solenoids on this particular engine. The one that you want is the right hand one, as you are standing in front of the car, facing the engine, the other one that you don't want is the left hand one, that one is the charcol cannister purge solenoid. It would probably work, but IIRC it looked different. The EGR solenoid from the LT1, and the one from the 2.0L are identical, except for the bracket. This is where your imagination will have to come into play. The choice is up to you where/how to mount it.

Good luck!!!

Remember to take a 9v battery with you to the junk yard, cut the wire to the EGR solenoid where it attaches to the wire harness and strip a little bit of insulation off, the orange wire is the + positive side. Test it before you remove it, it will click as you apply and remove battery voltage. If it's good, don't cut the vacuum lines too short, keep as much as you can. Also keep the vacuum port rubber boot attached, because your going to need it. The size of the bolt to remove the solenoid is 15mm.

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

I know that this is a pretty old thread, but what was the outcome of this? Did the LT1 solenoid actually work out well?

87IROC-DAN61

Hello JekyllandHyde!!

Do you have a problem with yours????

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

I had a problem with mine. I changed the solenoid to the LT1 solenoid and the car ran like absolute crap. As soon as I started her up, the car idled really rough and had no power. The idle sounded like a lopey cam. I then changed out the Solenoid to one from Standard that was made for the 95 Cadillac Deville with the 4.9 motor. The car runs stronger than ever now.

I did however have to custom make a bracket for it. Pretty easy swap.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello JekyllandHyde!!

Did you have the wires reversed for the LT1 solenoid????

Were the vacuum lines hooked up right????

Sounds like you had EGR applied right at the start, on a cold engine????

Was the engine hot, warm or cold at the first start up after the change to the LT1 solenoid????



The solenoid just lets the vaccum flow through the lines, so it shouldn't affect the rate of flow of the vacuum, was the LT1 solenoid new???



I'm glad that it worked out for you though with the 4.9 motor solenoid!!!

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

Yes, the LT1 Solenoid was new. I tried all the configurations for the wiring and the vacuum lines and still got the same result. The car was cold when I did the initial start. it is possible I may have had a defective solenoid, though i have no idea why.

In the end the 4.9 solenoid worked out better for me. I'm running an SLP T-RAM on my car and the 4.9 solenoid helped me to clear up the routing of the vacuum lines and some additional space.

89RESTO

iTrader: (5)

does anyone have a part # for the deville solenoid?

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

The solenoid I got came from Standard Motor Products. Part number VS25. You will also need to change the pigtail connector to the LT1 style connector for this to work.

TwinTurboROC

Al didnt even know you got the t ram running. so can i have the other?

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

Hey Dave. Yes, I got it running for awhile now and if you go on the NYTHIRDGEN cruise on Saturday, you will get to see it.

No you can't have the other one. I'm using it as an ashtray...

TwinTurboROC

aight, we'll see what happens.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello 89RESTO!!

GM part number is 01997202, AC Delco part number is 214-357, Standard Motor Products part number is VS25!!



If you search the Standard Motor Products online catalogue, you will see a picture of VS25, with the GM part number on it of 1997202 !!

87IROC-DAN61

Hello JekyllandHyde!!

Very strange!!

Can you check out the LT1 solenoid by applying 12v to it, and see if it's even functioning!!!



I have a couple of new solenoids that I was going to try out one day, one is the Camaro LT1 solenoid, GM part number 1997223 (AC Delco 214-396) and the other is the Camaro LO3 1988-1992 solenoid, GM part number 1997173 (AC Delco 214-339)!!

They are physically the same, differing only in the bracket set up!!

89RESTO

iTrader: (5)

Great, Thanks for the part #s

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Should a good EGR solenoid allow vaccuum to pass through when it's off the car?

How is a `noid determined to be normally open or normally closed? Is there a test other than reading the wiring diag.?

Would there be an ohm check to test for a bad one?

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

IROC-DAN, unfortunately, out of disgust and frustration at buying the LT1 solenoid and having it not work out and not being able to return it because I had to modify the bracket to work for my setup, I threw it out.

The caddy solenoid works beautifully though. I took the car out for an extended drive tonight and she has loads of power and is extremely responsive now. I tried recreating all the conditions that would cause the car to stall with the bad solenoid... blips of throttle, extended idling, hard braking, she just would not die, and was smooth the whole ride.

JMD, a good EGR solenoid should not allow any vacuum to pass if it's off. In other words, the ECM energizes it to open it. Vacuum passing through the solenoid will open the EGR. As far as normally opened on closed, I have no idea.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Thanks. I've a clogged intake manifold to replace and that was my last thing to diagnose. I bet it will idle a lot better when all is said and done.

Jetmeck

iTrader: (3)

Just a thought here but especially with you modded guys why don't you make a nice block off plate and have the damn thing programmed out of the ecm. Cleaner intake tracks and according to some postsw a little more power.

turbinator3

oh jet, they are gonna cuss you know for even thinking that idea!

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

The thought had crossed my mind, but I like the idea that the EGR cools my combustion chamber temps. Besides, I want my car fully functional in case I need to move to a state like California with all these rediculous emissions laws.

Jetmeck

iTrader: (3)

Well have done this with multiple vehicles, all OBD1 and rarely get a check engine light. Intake tract stays cleaner and can't quite understand how putting warmed exhaust air into the mix cools the combustion process but mine sure didn't notice it any. I would still ditch the damn thing, most modern cars don't even have them anymore, they were a bad idea !

rayres88

Anyone around to help me out? I just found a 91 GTA 5.7 for $1000 bucks last week and have been tinkering with stuff. Finally got a 32 check engine so I started to follow the vac line from Egr down between distributor and coil to find solenoid. The electronic plug is not even plugged into it and I cannot find it. I did however try to look around back there for a plug and found what would look like the right length and plug but was a totally different connection. Basically it was a plug that looked like a double barrel short shotgun that was hanging down there. The solenoid looks like it has two metal flat male connections while the plug hanging has two overlapped round female barrel connections in the plug. Am I missing something?

paulo57509

IIRC, GM made a change to the solenoids some years ago. The PO might have just installed a late model solenoid and for what ever reasons didn't bother hooking it up. The different plug receptacle on the solenoid. I think there's someone out there that makes an adapter pigtail that will adapt the barreled wire connector to the blade connector on the solenoid.

Don't quote me on any of this because I'm going by my feeble memory.

I'd start with confirming that the existing wire connector is in fact for the EGR solenoid. I would avoid just plugging unknown connectors into sensors and switches.

rayres88

I am starting to think that it is definitely the right connector. The back of the solenoid that looks like flat connectors could be just the metal tabs that hold the connector in. Just way too hard to get a look back there. It also seems very hard to get any tool back there to just het the whole Damn bracket out with solenoid so I can get a better look at it. Might go the route of that Cadillac solenoid replacement which everyone says seems to work and reroute. Maybe a better idea? Huh

rayres88

Ok so I finally took off the two bolts to get the bracket off and the plug does in fact go to the solenoid. I plugged it back in. Car is running like total crappy. Hesitates off the line, popes when idling, feel hesitation when driving.. actually seems worse since I plugged it back in. Visa now its time to run 12000 volts to switch and check vacuum and Egr itself. Anyone have any other ideas?. Just ordered the caddy solenoid from advanced auto parts. Should be here tomorrow morning.

Also, if I have to change the Egr do I just have to loosen the torx bolts around the plenum and pull it off? I do not have to mess with fuel rails or anything do I?

rayres88

Sorry for mispelled words above. Was typing from phone.

rayres88

Ok latest update since yesterday. I turn on the car this morning cold and it runs smooth as silk. Run it down the road to get warmed up and it starts loping again and hesitating at first throttle at green lights or first acceleration. Get home and watch the engine idle and piping still. Finally decided to check the Egr solenoid after I had plugged it back in yesterday finiding the plug. I put 12 volts to it and it clicks. I also blew air through the nozzle with my mouth and it totally opens and closes off my air flow so I bolted it back. I also checked the vac tube from the throttle body at the end where it goes into the solenoid and no vac really at idle. Give it a little gas by hand at the throttle body and it sucks more vac the more I rev it which to me seems normal. So I am getting vac when throttle accelerates. Last problem left is checking the Egr itself. But my problem seems opposite of other postings. Like when cold at startup it runs beautiful and then warmed up it starts to run like crap. Is that normal for a screwed egr?

87IROC-DAN61

Hello rayres88!!

Try lifting up on the bottom of the EGR valve when it's cold, if it moves freely it should be good, but if it's stiff, or sticks that should/would/could be your problem!!

Did you get a code 32 from the computer??

No EGR gas flow, when commanded should light up the SES light, and give a code 32!!



P.S. There should be no EGR at start up, and/or at idle, if there was a call for EGR flow, and the EGR valve hung up, slightly open, you would have a rough idle!!

87IROC-DAN61

Hello All!!

Replacement EGR Solenoid for TPI can be found at www.rickscamaros.com



Part number 718974 $59.99 1985-1992 Camaro



I confirmed with support@ecklers.net that this works for TPI Camaro's and Firebird's!!

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

what happens if u just let it hang and dont mount it?

DJK90IrocZ

I wanted to ask anyone this q about the solenoid replacement. I mounted the Caddy 4.9 solenoid to the side of the coil bracket and hooked the new LT1 type electrical connector. When at idle and when its still cold, It runs great and NO SES light.

After its warmed up, I get the SES light code 32 BUT it still runs great. I have a new EGR negative pressure type and new solenoid on my 5.7L TPI.

Will the Evap Canistor solenoid cause this EGR code 32 ??

Thanks in advance.

B_Dubya

Coming out of the solenoid, there is a tighter brass nozzle and an all black bigger nozzle. which nozzle goes to EGR valve and which nozzle goes to Throttle body?

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

One of the nipples opens/flows to the vent on the back side of the solenoid, this one goes to the egr. I never remember without looking at one. You may have to test it but I believe it's the brass one that should be connected to the egr.

B_Dubya

If you check out my other link
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-...questions.html
^ here, i have a picture of the egr solenoid.
Still think it's brass to the egr valve?

I have TBI

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

...

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

The bottom metal tube connector on the solenoid connects to port side vacuum under plenum, The plastic tube connector on the solenoid goes to EGR Valve

B_Dubya

the connectors are sideby side ><

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

OK, BLACK to EGR. Sorry

B_Dubya

Thank you very much!

ken3983

I was kind of curious. When replacing the plug to adapt to the new EGR solenoid, does it matter which wire is soldered to the plug? In other words, you have a gray wire that goes to the ECM and the other wire goes to the ignition. So how do you know which wires to solder from the old wires to the new plug? or does it matter?

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

Look closely at the solenoid. The ones I remember looking at had the positive identified with a small "+" sign.

ken3983

So i take it the positive will be for ignition? And the other for ecm.

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

If my memory serves correctly, yes.

ken3983

I guess my only concern is that the EGR solenoid has a positive symbol on it at all.if not, you are just taking a stab at it. Lol